Normal modes flexible in 6.0

[Deleted]

Depends on HC 10-15 tuning.

... There is no 10 man hard modes anymore, it is all Mythic 20 man. 10 man hard modes are dead, period. Switching the heroic tag to normal mode dungeons does not make a difference.

[Relapses]

Oh my fuck.

This... is going to be different. The comments I made previously were before the "mythic" raid difficulty was announced so guess I kind of jumped the gun a bit. This is going to be an interesting change to how the game works. It's been a pretty long time since Blizzard has introduced such a massive change to how the game's raiding system works.

[Xjev]

Well now at least it will put an end to all 10vs25 discussion

[Emery]

http://i.imgur.com/EHuaiJW.png

RIP in piece raids.

[theturn]

This is completely not thought through and will be terrible. Flexible does not work in content designed for organised groups and content that is designed to be difficult. This will turn out to be shit, simple as that. What about loot?

I am guessing this will never make it live.

I doubt it. They said in the panel this is something they have been playing with since 5.4 ptr. And if I understood them correctly 10 and 25 modes will go away and we will only have lfr, flex and the new 20 man hero mode

[Baromega]

People are misinterpreting.

Flex isn't being replaced.

They're merely adding the scaling technology to Normal.

That's essentially replacing it. Remeber, Flex is not just a raid size but a difficulty. It was harder than LFR but easier than Normal. We know Normal is absorbing the raid size concept of flex but we have no idea about the difficulty.

[CTwin]

... There is no 10 man hard modes anymore, it is all Mythic 20 man. 10 man hard modes are dead, period. Switching the heroic tag to normal mode dungeons does not make a difference.

There is.

LFR 10-25
Normal 10-25
Heroic 10-25
Mythic 20.

Really depends on tuning...

[Javvo]

I wonder if blizzard will realize how redundant the new "normal" and "heroic" raids will be. AKA flex A and flex B.

[Deleted]

There is.

LFR 10-25
Normal 10-25
Heroic 10-25
Mythic 20.

Really depends on tuning...

Blizzard could rename LFR to Heroic mode, flex to Extra Heroic Mode, normal to Super Extra Heroic Mode and heroic modes to Flux Capacitator Uber Mode of Cow Hell, it would not make the current LFR hard mode content just because it was renamed to normal.

6.0 "Heroic" mode will be tuned as current normal modes. I.e., there will be no content that we currently refer to as "heroic content" for either 10 or 25 man. It will be 20 man only. What is called heroic content in 6.0 is what we currently refer to as normal mode content. Changing the name tag does not change what the content is. You can stick an orange juice sticker on apple juice, it is still apple juice.

- - - Updated - - -

I wonder if blizzard will realize how redundant the new "normal" and "heroic" raids will be. AKA flex A and flex B.

Yeah, that felt very stupid. I dont get why you would want to have flex and flex 2.

[Fog]

I wonder if blizzard will realize how redundant the new "normal" and "heroic" raids will be. AKA flex A and flex B.

My thoughts exactly. I said the same thing when Flex was introduced as an own tier of raiding: "Why isn't this implemented for normal and let heroic be "set in stone" with 10/25?

Love the change for LFR though, that's sort of what Flex feels for me today. It's piss easy but ok to do on off days.
I'd say we only need:
LFR (10-25)
Normal (10-25)
Heroic (20)

Not this mythic shit. There's already too much to do if you want the fastest character progression possible within a reasonable time, and of course play the game outside of it. Then again, I guess that's the price we have to pay to have it all...

[CTwin]

Blizzard could rename LFR to Heroic mode, flex to Extra Heroic Mode, normal to Super Extra Heroic Mode and heroic modes to Flux Capacitator Uber Mode of Cow Hell, it would not make the current LFR hard mode content just because it was renamed to normal.

6.0 "Heroic" mode will be tuned as current normal modes. I.e., there will be no content that we currently refer to as "heroic content" for either 10 or 25 man. It will be 20 man only. What is called heroic content in 6.0 is what we currently refer to as normal mode content. Changing the name tag does not change what the content is. You can stick an orange juice sticker on apple juice, it is still apple juice.

That's a huge assumption.

Ponder this.

LFR continuing to be the drool fest it is.
Normal being somewhere between Normal and Flex.
Heroic being somewhere between Normal and Heroic.
Mythic being tuned harder than current 10/25 HC.

The thing is, World Firster's really don't care. At all. Whatever they have to do, they will do.

[Relapses]

These changes require a complete revisit of our current understanding on how raiding works. Once people get used to the new vernacular, it won't be as bad... but this is a fairly massive paradigm shift from the stance Blizzard has had on raiding since the onset of TBC. These ideas are going to be met with a lot of harsh resistance (especially from 10M raiders), so it'll be interesting to see how they ultimately spin it.

[Deleted]

That's a huge assumption.

Ponder this.

LFR continuing to be the drool fest it is.
Normal being somewhere between Normal and Flex.
Heroic being somewhere between Normal and Heroic.
Mythic being tuned harder than current 10/25 HC.

The thing is, World Firster's really don't care. At all. Whatever they have to do, they will do.

I do not see how these changes make sense at all to be honest. Where is the need for having flex 1 and flex 2?

Everything you said still did not change anything. There is no more heroic 10 man content, period. All current 10 man heroic guilds are getting seriously fucked over. Even paragon that is the world first 10 man guild is being fucked over as they went down from 25 to 10 man for a reason. Even the 25 mans are getting fucked over, but not to the same extent.

You should see the rage at the moment in the skype chats of the top 10 man and top 25 man guild on my realm. A constant stream of all caps rages and wtfs. Nobody understands what blizzard is thinking with. 10 man heroic raiding is killed.

[Pantupino]

Alright people, you got it wrong...

LFR (25) -> LFR (10/25 (FLEX tech))
FLEX (10/25) -> NORMAL (10/25 (FLEX tech))
NORMAL (10 - 25) -> NORMAL (10/25 (FLEX tech))
HEROIC (10 - 25) -> HEROIC (10/25 (FLEX tech))
NEW MYSTHIC MODE (20 players) (HARDER THAN HEROIC ACTUAL HEROIC MODE)

This is how Blizzard intended to be seen, this is the way you need to understand it will be. Is not that complicated guys!

[Deleted]

5 different difficulties? Looks overwhelming why didnt they just remove heroic all together and made normal something inbetween normal and heroic and let Mysthic be the "new heroic"?

[Racthoh]

RIP in peace 10 man raiding. there's really no point to having so many difficulties. i say go back to raids being 1 difficulty and you can either kill a boss or you can't.

[Deleted]

Alright people, you got it wrong...

LFR (25) -> LFR (10/25 (FLEX tech))
FLEX (10/25) -> NORMAL (10/25 (FLEX tech))
NORMAL (10 - 25) -> NORMAL (10/25 (FLEX tech))
HEROIC (10 - 25) -> HEROIC (10/25 (FLEX tech))
NEW MYSTHIC MODE (20 players) (HARDER THAN HEROIC ACTUAL HEROIC MODE)

This is how Blizzard intended to be seen, this is the way you need to understand it will be. Is not that complicated guys!

Seems like you're the one who got it wrong, there's really not much need for a difficulty about the current heroic.

[Nobleshield]

I'm happy with this change. I don't care a lick about "Mythic" (just as I don't care about Heroic now) and would prefer it not be a mode at all, but not having to sit/rotate people for regular raids, or try to have an "A" and "B" team is a godsend, and is the single greatest thing ever to happen since 10M became an option. Of course this also means the "magic number" for Flex/Normal--I mean, Normal/Heroic becomes 20 as that's what Mythic is.

Also, it's not an extra difficulty. It goes like this:

5.4 LFR => 6.0 LFR (Flexible)
5.4 Flex => 6.0 Normal (Flexible)
5.4 Normal => 6.0 Heroic (Flexible)
5.4 Heroic => 6.0 Mythic (20)

They are (finally!) renaming things, adding the current Flex (6.0's Normal) scaling to LFR and Normal (6.0's Heroic) and making Heroic (6.0's Mythic) a flat 20-man instead of 10/25.

Flex (6.0's Normal) fills the same gap that it does now: A more laid back atmosphere for guilds that don't want to sit their underperforming people, but still want some progression.

The main question now is if Normal (6.0 Heroic) will drop regular gear or use the 5.4 Flex style, and if Flex (6.0 Normal) will do the same.

[Deleted]

Alright people, you got it wrong...

LFR (25) -> LFR (10/25 (FLEX tech))
FLEX (10/25) -> NORMAL (10/25 (FLEX tech))
NORMAL (10 - 25) -> NORMAL (10/25 (FLEX tech))
HEROIC (10 - 25) -> HEROIC (10/25 (FLEX tech))
NEW MYSTHIC MODE (20 players) (HARDER THAN HEROIC ACTUAL HEROIC MODE)

This is how Blizzard intended to be seen, this is the way you need to understand it will be. Is not that complicated guys!

How exactly do they make current flex and normal into one difficulty?

Here is how I think they meant to say it, and actually did but in a unclear way.
He sure said Mythic is going to be harder than Heroic! True. But he never stated that he was talking about MoP Heroic!
This mean MMO-Champion are correct when they say Mythic is harder than Heroic but what I think was suppose to be said out more clearly is that Mythic is harder than WoD Heroic!
This is also supported by the fact how the picture they showed on the screen looks like, Mythic sure is further down on the list than Heroic, but it's on the side where 6.0 is, and it is still in line with current 5.0 MoP Heroic!

So basically they though "Flex" was a silly name for a difficulty if they are to make almost everything flexible, so instead they chose to use the name "normal". And then for previous normal use the name Heroic, and to top it all of, invent a new, cool and fresh name for the cutting edge content, Mythic!

[Haywire5714]

I think people would have found this a lot less confusing if they renamed flex to easy instead of normal lol. Reading this thread is painful.