Flexible heroics

[schwarzkopf]

Oh cheer up, they're adding a new mode! Because the problem with WoW raiding is not enough modes!

Currently there is 6 modes.
In 6.0 there will be 4 modes.

Not sure how that is 'adding'?

[Deleted]

Currently there is 6 modes.
In 6.0 there will be 4 modes.

Not sure how that is 'adding'?

I see 76 different modes in 6.0

Have fun tuning blizzard

[timoseewho]

WoD heroic is just the current normal renamed, to make the current normal raiders feel better about raiding.

[Deleted]

They are making a mistake by not providing a Mythic(10) option, time to start doomsaying the 10 man guild.

This, they're killing of the larger playerbase currently doing heroic. Its a blessing for most 25man being able to cut out the slack.
Good luck for 10mans finding 10 more players.

[CTwin]

I see 76 different modes in 6.0

Have fun tuning blizzard

Works fine from a mechanic addition standpoint (as opposed to straight numbers - which is easier) in Siege Flex?

[Deleted]

Works fine from a mechanic addition standpoint (as opposed to straight numbers - which is easier) in Siege Flex?

I just dont see the point in having 2 flexible modes. The problem with flexible modes is that they can never be tuned with any difficulty or complexity in them since that would force players to kick or invite players for certain bosses to make it easier. "We will go 12 man on this boss then 16 man on the next boss and back to 13 for the third".

It feels like the two flexible raid modes in 6.0 will be exact same thing, feels like one of them could easily have been removed now.

[CTwin]

I just dont see the point in having 2 flexible modes. The problem with flexible modes is that they can never be tuned with any difficulty or complexity in them since that would force players to kick or invite players for certain bosses to make it easier. "We will go 12 man on this boss then 16 man on the next boss and back to 13 for the third"..

I agree with this, but we're talking Normals here.

In Normal, so long as you don't stand in the insta-gib and interrupt the bad - its forgiving as fuck. Same deal with the *great* majority of current Heroics - infact for most of them is just a tighter dps/hps check with an additional mechanic.

What happens if every Mythic Boss is HC Rag, Firefighter, 0yogg, Hc Lei Shen...

[Deleted]

What happens if every Mythic Boss is HC Rag, Firefighter, 0yogg, Hc Lei Shen...

Biggest nerdgasm in my life?

[Wolfheart9]

I just dont see the point in having 2 flexible modes. The problem with flexible modes is that they can never be tuned with any difficulty or complexity in them since that would force players to kick or invite players for certain bosses to make it easier. "We will go 12 man on this boss then 16 man on the next boss and back to 13 for the third".

It feels like the two flexible raid modes in 6.0 will be exact same thing, feels like one of them could easily have been removed now.

Why do we do dungeons twice, once in normal once in heroic. I mean they're the exact same thing, nothing at all changes.. Or why do we get more gear at level 90 rather then just having it when we level, I mean my rotation is the exact same thing, nothing changes at all...

Difficulty. Normal is the current flex in difficulty. Friends who like to play together and want to raid and have SOME skill can do it. Heroic is getting the flex tech, and will require RAIDING guilds to do, it will need people that know what they're doing, everyone has to carry their own weight, they have to be dedicated. Mystic is 20 ONLY, and is for the best of the best, that will be what the world first races to, this will be the current day 'Heroic mode'

[Libertarian]

For people who do not get it

[Saicam]

Normal = Flex
Heroic = NON-FLEX
MYTHIC = NON-FLEX

I hope not. As it is Flex right now is almost as easy as LFR, I hope they keep normal how it is but ad flex to it.

[CTwin]

For people who do not get it

Does not necessarily have *anything* to do with the difficulty intention.

Ion basically said that tuning 10/25m HC encounters that test people, are ridiculous as it is - and there is plenty of examples where they have dropped the ball with HC tuning between the 2 modes. Most of Cata 10m HC basically.

[Deleted]

I agree with this, but we're talking Normals here.

In Normal, so long as you don't stand in the insta-gib and interrupt the bad - its forgiving as fuck. Same deal with the *great* majority of current Heroics - infact for most of them is just a tighter dps/hps check with an additional mechanic.

What happens if every Mythic Boss is HC Rag, Firefighter, 0yogg, Hc Lei Shen...

Then mythic would be fun?

Anyway, that is my point exactly. What is the need of having 6.0 Heroic and Normal (What we currently know at flex and normal). They seem like overlapping difficulties to me. One of those could easily be removed. Both difficulties share the same mentality of "Dont stand in insta gibs and dont die", and have a minor dps and healing check. It feels like both of those modes are not needed.

[Relapses]

Assuming that the new Heroic gets current-Flex loot......
...I'm looking forward to level 4 characters of the same class and use the luckiest of them during progress!
Thank you Blizzard <3

They did mention in previous interviews that they disliked the current flex loot system but current technology prevented them from changing it. Hopefully this will be something that is address before going live.

[Defaulty]

Lets look at it in current raid terms:

LFR is flexible.
Flex Mode and Normal mode are both flexible.
Heroic is turning into 20m only.

[CTwin]

One of those could easily be removed. Both difficulties share the same mentality of "Dont stand in insta gibs and dont die", and have a minor dps and healing check. It feels like both of those modes are not needed.

Not really.

One is "do the mechanics", the other is "do the mechanics whilst achieving a level of min-maxing".

Mythic is "Do everything perfect, even then, it might not be enough".

For reference LFR is "story time".

If you've played up through the ranks of different tiered guilds/players - you'll begin to see that there is definitely 4 distinct types of players.

[Deleted]

Why do we do dungeons twice, once in normal once in heroic. I mean they're the exact same thing, nothing at all changes.. Or why do we get more gear at level 90 rather then just having it when we level, I mean my rotation is the exact same thing, nothing changes at all...

Difficulty. Normal is the current flex in difficulty. Friends who like to play together and want to raid and have SOME skill can do it. Heroic is getting the flex tech, and will require RAIDING guilds to do, it will need people that know what they're doing, everyone has to carry their own weight, they have to be dedicated. Mystic is 20 ONLY, and is for the best of the best, that will be what the world first races to, this will be the current day 'Heroic mode'

For the most part, dungeons are done while leveling and at level cap. Having a leveling and a level cap difficulty makes sense.
I do agree though that heroic dungeons in MoP has been rather pointless. But look at heroic dungeons in WotLK and Cata release. There were leveling and there were end level dungeons.

In Cata the heroics was actually heroic, so they also served a purpose. The heroic mode dungeons in Cata had different mechanics and was majorly different from the normal mode dungeons.

The same can not be said about 6.0 Normal and Heroic, which to me seems like overlapping difficulties that serves no purpose. Will just be 2 raid modes to grind for gear every week for Mythic progression.

The problem is that what we now now as "normal" will have to change. Flexible raid does not fit well with it, so normal will have to become much closer to flex otherwise you will run in the problem of benching people because it makes the bosses easier.

- - - Updated - - -

Not really.

One is "do the mechanics", the other is "do the mechanics whilst achieving a level of min-maxing".

Mythic is "Do everything perfect, even then, it might not be enough".

For reference LFR is "story time".

The problem is that what we know as normal mode now cant continue to be what it is. If flexible is applied to it, it will have to be tuned down. You must not be required to do min-maxing, since that min-maxing would involve recruiting and/or benching players for certain fights simple because "This boss is easier with N-2 players than N players". Just see how many idiots right now are looing for 14 man flex groups. Imagine how it would be if bosses actually required min-maxing?

If you've played up through the ranks of different tiered guilds/players - you'll begin to see that there is definitely 4 distinct types of players.

There are far more than 4 types of players. You can easily find 4 distinct types of players in just heroic modes.

[t3kneek]

Just need clarification as to the difficulty of each raid setting from a blue. Because if mythic is just for gods that spend 60+ hrs a week raiding then who gives a shit?

[CTwin]

For the most part, dungeons are done while leveling and at level cap. Having a leveling and a level cap difficulty makes sense.
I do agree though that heroic dungeons in MoP has been rather pointless. But look at heroic dungeons in WotLK and Cata release. There were leveling and there were end level dungeons.

Ion mentioned that Normal/Heroic Max level dungeons exist again at level cap. Also that Challenge mode still exists, but they wanted to expand it.

The same can not be said about 6.0 Normal and Heroic, which to me seems like overlapping difficulties that serves no purpose. Will just be 2 raid modes to grind for gear every week for Mythic progression.

Meh, Outside of a handful of bosses in Heroic, "harder' Normal and most heroic just blend in 5.0/5.2/5.4.

"This boss is easier with N-2 players than N players". Just see how many idiots right now are looing for 14 man flex groups. Imagine how it would be if bosses actually required min-maxing?

This is outdated. They fixed it. The unwashed masses will catch up around 6.0

I agree its the biggest challenge in the flex as it stands with their plan though.

[Sonnillon]

Please use this thread - http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...al-level-20man - to discuss the changes to raid modes in WoD.