Mythical level - 20man

[oraz4000]

Well facepalm..

[Deleted]

I think if you're going to be raiding at heroic level, you should be required to do more for your server's guild community. In this case, hosting 20 players instead of a measly 10. This is a great change. No longer will heroic 25 man guilds cruise through difficult content with a 5 person margin of error... and 10 man heroic will have to contribute / play at the same level and coordination as 25 man. Also world firsts will at last be decisive... my bets are still on Paragon...

*I raid 10 mans...

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^Agreeing with you so hard right now. :P

You don't even a single heroic kill yet you are talking about mythic.

[Dom]

I don't think many people are going to "adapt" as they think. Raiding has been a blast the last 5 years, but if they pull this shit, I'm just going to go play something else. There are thousands of other games out there, I might just go pick up a PS4 after all.

If they're going to axe 10 man heroic, the might as well axe it in Flex and normal as well, or w/e the hell they are calling it now. If you don't recruit 10 other people by poaching from two other guilds on your server, then once you face roll normals in a month, you get to sit on your ass until next patch. At which point your raid group falls apart because half of them are going to want to do Mythic and they'll go find another guild. Brilliant Blizzard, you've out done yourself this time.

[Orcindauh]

You don't even a single heroic kill yet you are talking about mythic.

heh, you never know. Some guilds might not start on heroic progression until late game.

[Zavri]

I welcome the change. I'm tired of the 10 vs 25 thing, it's about time they settled on one raid size for the difficulty that matters.

No more "Oh this fight is faceroll on 10/25" or "lol 10m isn't real raiding guys"

I run a roster of 30-32 for my 25man team. Yes it will suck cutting down though, but I guess it is for the best.

[Unholydevil]

The server pop issue is something that is already being addressed by the connected realms feature so lack of people is not going to be a detriment and with the new expansion what you need are people who can raid the schedule since the gear is reset for everyone.

[buffmageslol]

Personally think its great but the implementation is weird and I dont understand why if the end game (mythic) is 20 man there is 25 man at all.

For example, is a 25 man guild going to have to clear Normal/Heroic with a 25 man raid to access Mythic? How the fuck will that work,'oh hey guys we will just use you 5 players to clear normal then you can fuck off and find another guild?'

Like what

guilds doing mythic will probably do normal and heroic as 20m also, since theyre allowed to.

this sentence ^ was not 10 characters apparently.

[Constraint]

Amazing, amazing change. No more excuses from lazy people such as myself who can't be arsed to maintain a larger guild, so just default to less interesting (imo) 10 mans. I love the concept of 1 raid size for the higher difficulties - will be SO MUCH EASIER for them to make more challenging, diverse encounters without having to PERFECTLY balance it for 2 massively differently raid sizes. Too much spreading required? 10s is suddenly much easier. More AoE healing required? 25s are absurdly easier. Need an additional tank? 25s hardly notice it, 10s do. Individual skill fight where there are several opportunities for 1 person to die? 10s are SCREWED if more than 1 fail, 25s can have 3 and not break a sweat.

Awesome change, and I hope it sticks. Kudos, Blizzard.

[Aboubacar]

obvious going to be a very rough adjustment to say the least but after it all settles i see this being an improvement esp. for the race of it anyway.

[nyxtyr]

Just like 40 became 25, and 25 became 10/25, and 10/25 became 10n/10hc/25n/25hc you'll get the fuck over it.

perfect man! every time this is a touchy subject get over it and move on or stop playing and move on. i am recruiting more members now to upsize my 10 man group! whatever the case finally we're all on an even playing field again no more 10/25 bs.

[phyx]

Reading these comments made me realize that a lot of WoW players suck at math or have never really raided anything.

25man guilds have at least 32-33 people, sometimes even more, but lets take that as an average number of raiders. 10s have 12-13. So, if you look at it more closely, 25man guilds have to tell at least 10 people they don't want them anymore. It irritates me that 10s just assume we don't want those 10 people. 'It will be easier' to tell our friends they are no longer good enough to raid with us. If you are in 25man guild and you cleared HC content successfully, you really don't have THAT shitty players. On the other side, 10s get to keep all of their players and recruit 10 more. Yes, your 'tight knit' group of players will be somewhat invaded, but on the other hand you'll finally experience what's it like to raid 'easier' content.

One raid size was unavoidable and it is the right answer to the 10vs25 debate. It will no longer be required to balance 2 raid sizes, Blizzard won't spend countless hours thinking about how to save 25s but at the same time not degrade 10s, and that just might result in better quality content. I hope. In the long run, this will be great for raiding scene in general. As someone said, finally an even playing field for everyone.

To recap - 25s have to lose 10, 10s have to recruit 10. Sure, there will be quitting, but so was when 40s had to cut 15 people out. Blizzard announced this change on time, so we have AT LEAST 5 months (if not more) to adjust. And to those yelling about dead servers, Blizzard IS merging them thus making recruitment pools a bit bigger. US already has clusters of up to 5 servers, and before someone says 'thats x-realm shit', its literally like one, single server.

[Constraint]

Does anyone know which lockouts will affect which? I'm obviously hoping that LFR's separate, Normal and Heroic are shared, and Mythic's separate, but I have no idea. Hoping it's not LFR separate and the rest are shared, that'd kinda suck.

[Deleted]

No offense, but anyone who welcomes this change is either shit at the game or plays 25 man. There is no way a proper 10 man guild would find anything positive in this change.

[artem123]

Does anyone know which lockouts will affect which? I'm obviously hoping that LFR's separate, Normal and Heroic are shared, and Mythic's separate, but I have no idea. Hoping it's not LFR separate and the rest are shared, that'd kinda suck.

Id assume heroic and mythic is shared, normals and LFR are seperate.

[rebecca191]

If a lot of people quit after MOP it won't be so hard on 25m guilds they can just not recruit replacements. Will suck for 10m though...

[MrExcelion]

Initially we were thinking it was some elite mode but then I saw this tweet to clear things up

Q. @Ghostcrawler What the tuning will be with new raid comps? Will Normals be as easy as Flex? Will Mythic be harder than current Heroic?

A. Greg Street ‏@Ghostcrawler 45m
@KnowYourRolePro Just changing names, not difficulties.

So it's moreorless 20m raiding through and through

[Deleted]

If it were 15 pple it would be ok i guess...

But 20 ¿? Thats screwed up for most of 10 man guilds (including mine)...

Not to mention that many of my fellow guildmates play the game on a "shitty" pc, if they have sometimes lag issues in 10 man don´t see how we are going to step into 20 man raiding...

Merge 2 damm guilds for high end raiding or we are screwed ? WTF

Don´t like this shit at all, get it down to 15 or simple remove it

[Aboubacar]

If it were 15 pple it would be ok i guess...

But 20 ¿? Thats screwed up for most of 10 man guilds (including mine)...

Not to mention that many of my fellow guildmates play the game on a "shitty" pc, if they have sometimes lag issues in 10 man don´t see how we are going to step into 20 man raiding...

Merge 2 damm guilds for high end raiding or we are screwed ? WTF

Don´t like this shit at all, get it down to 15 or simple remove it

typical 10man close minded thought process. You realize 25man has to tell 10 of their freinds to piss off and you only have to recruit maybe 5-7 people? go to wowprogress just talk to another guild near your rank. And those people who get cut in 25man can't exactly go to another 25man since they are all cutting.

If anything the best idea would have been 30mans and 25mans w/ small roster could merge w/ a 10man.

[Deleted]

For all I know, it's just a sollution for blizz to stop having to tune 2 different raid sizes, aka being lazy on their part.

Not saying it's all just bad. 20 man raiding does sound like a cool thing, but it's gonna be rough at the start of the expansion for a LOT of guilds. 10 and 25 man both.

Heck, at least we won't have 3000 threads every month of 10 vs 25 man drama.

[Peachpies]

Just like 40 became 25, and 25 became 10/25, and 10/25 became 10n/10hc/25n/25hc you'll get the fuck over it.

the difference is those were all going to an equal or smaller raid size.