Mythical level - 20man

[Deleted]

I know, I was being sarcastic because of the doom-and-gloom over Mythic . Personally I don't care a lick about the top tier of guilds, and think that "looking up to people" in a game is laughable, but it doesn't affect me at all. The number of people calling end of the world though because they can finally balance around a set difficulty and have more interesting mechanics, though, is just crazy.

They are bitching because this change makes 2/3 of all 10 mans die, horribly in a fire.
Since the guilds are Dying IT IS THE END OF THE WORLD AS WE KNOW IT.

[nocendi]

No. Mythic is the current 'Heroic', but is limited to 20people.

What is Paragon going to do? Disband?

Paragon is going to put on their big boy pants, bring back some of their old raiders, recruit a few new ones, and then give Method a run for their money.

[Deleted]

If you care so little then why do you even have to make such a comment? Looking up to people is almost as laughable as being a moderator on a forum about games sup with that

I really think that having top tier players brings alot of amazing advertising towards the game and helps it stay relevant.

He cares so little that in the poll of what heroic raiders think about 20m mythic he voted pro even though he still hasn't completed normal SoO.

[se7enthsinn]

Nice, i cant freaking wait

[Akylios]

I'm not sure if someone mentioned this before, but forcing 20 man raids on everyone is mostly going to be hurting non-English speaking guilds.

Over half the 10 man raiding guilds on my server are non-English speaking guilds. We've got a Finnish guild, a Polish guild, a Spanish guild, a Swedish guild, a Turkish guild and so on. I'm pretty sure this is the number one reason 10 man raiding is so exceptionally popular in Europe. Most people are just much more comfortable communicating in their own language.

It's already pretty damn hard just to find 15 people speaking your language who can share your raiding schedule, are on your skill level, are playing the role you need and just happen to be looking for a guild. Needing to do this for the 25+ people required to run a successful 20 man raiding guild is going to be an absolute nightmare.

In short, I think forcing 20 man raids on everyone will have significant changes for the worse for the European raiding scene. It will be forcing a lot (and I mean a whole fucking lot) of people out of the raiding game, simply due to language barriers.

[Deja Thoris]

I know, I was being sarcastic because of the doom-and-gloom over Mythic . Personally I don't care a lick about the top tier of guilds, and think that "looking up to people" in a game is laughable, but it doesn't affect me at all. The number of people calling end of the world though because they can finally balance around a set difficulty and have more interesting mechanics, though, is just crazy.

It is the end of the world for them though in raiding terms. Recruitment will be a huge issue, especially in Europe where y'know, theres more than one language in play. Also, a lot of people enjoy the atmosphere of 10's and will just quit rather than lose that.
If you think that's crazy then you're pretty blinkered.

If you take the HC raiding population as the only people to be affected by this then 10's are by far the majority. What service provider in their right mind screws over the majority of a segment to make the experience more pleasurable for the minority? It beggars belief.

I just can't see how the gains they expect from this outweigh the negatives. Perceived benefits:
- It ends the 10/25 debate. The whole debate is just a smoke screen and excuse to hurl a few derogatory comments at the other size to stroke your own ego.
- It makes tuning easier. Granted. Everyone appreciates someone who makes a product on the cheap "because its easier"
- The much vaunted "unique mechanics". I'm sure that shit will get old quickly. They can do far more with an extra action button than they can with class mechanics. An extra action button lets the raid choose who they feel would be most suited for a task rather than "oh the priest has to do it"

On top of this, whats the maximum gain they can get from this? Do they think people that have been away from the game for years will flock back to it in droves because 10 man heroics are no longer on the table? They're fucking nuts if they think that will happen.

Anyway, its a circular debate. I can't wait for all the intelligent "lol recruit iz eezy" and "10 man isn't raiding anyway" rebuttals.

[Dnusha]

Can't wait for Mythic raids.

[Tiberria]

They are bitching because this change makes 2/3 of all 10 mans die, horribly in a fire.
Since the guilds are Dying IT IS THE END OF THE WORLD AS WE KNOW IT.

Of course, doubling the raid size makes at least half of the 10 man guilds redundant; that is to be expected unless there is a huge increase in the amount of people raiding. In fact, it's going to be way more than half that will die.

-I don't think there will be any significant influx in recruitment from 25 man raiders that got cut moving to 20 man. Almost all of the need to reduce roster size for 25 mans will be absorbed by natural roster churn. A LOT of people quit every expansion.
-The number of raiding guilds drops significantly with each expansion. In the US in T13, there were 1282 25 man guilds with at least one heroic kill and 17,012 10 man guilds. In the first tier of Cata (as of today), there are only 603 25 man heroic guilds and 5669 heroic 10 man guilds. That means there was a 53% decrease in the amount of 25H raiding guilds and a staggering 67% decrease in the amount of 10H raiding guilds in the transition from Cata to MoP.
-If we assume the numbers from T14 (which are lower than the numbers in T16 so far but more guilds will hit heroics by the end of the expansion) and the same rate of decay from MoP to WoD, we would be left with a baseline of 283 25 man guilds and 1871 10 man guilds. Assuming that the surviving 25 man guilds just go 20 man with their existing roster churn, we would be left with 936 20 man guilds that emerged from the removal of 10H raiding and 283 20 man guilds that were former 25 man guilds.

The reality is that it's likely more like 85% of current 10H man guilds will cease to exist by the first tier in WoD.

[Scriblz]

Personally, I like the idea of 20 man raiding. Because seeing the amount of Heroic 10 Man Guilds right now, compared to myself in a 25 man guild having downed 5/14HM so far, the difficulty is definitely much harder to play. More communication than 10 man guilds. No wonder 10 mans dominate more heroics than 25 man guilds. On ya, Blizz.

[artem123]

Personally, I like the idea of 20 man raiding. Because seeing the amount of Heroic 10 Man Guilds right now, compared to myself in a 25 man guild having downed 5/14HM so far, the difficulty is definitely much harder to play. More communication than 10 man guilds. No wonder 10 mans dominate more heroics than 25 man guilds. On ya, Blizz.

Not trying to be a dick or anything, but it could not be the raid size, but the group itself.
Also, 25mans beat 10mans, and more kills than 10

[Zydas]

Good 10m HC guilds with solid leadership will last. The guilds that will fall apart are the ones made up of 10 friends who refuse to invite anyone else and only play with each other. Overall i think this will make HC raiding less exclusive. Im sure there are players who would love to raid heroics but cant because they cant get into an exclusive 10m. in the end it will make heroic raiding better and it will grow.

[hareu]

Personally, I like the idea of 20 man raiding. Because seeing the amount of Heroic 10 Man Guilds right now, compared to myself in a 25 man guild having downed 5/14HM so far, the difficulty is definitely much harder to play. More communication than 10 man guilds. No wonder 10 mans dominate more heroics than 25 man guilds. On ya, Blizz.

actually more 25 mans have downed heroic garrosh, a significant more amount of 25 mans have killed heroic garrosh.

now there are more guilds that have atleast a heroic boss killed because there are more 10 mans, but if theres more 10 man heroic raiding guilds why have more 25 mans guild garrosh? idk if what you said is true at all, now it's not always the same, like this tier i'd say 25 mans have it easier last tier 10 mans had it easier 100%.

[Hulkovius]

Personally, I like the idea of 20 man raiding. Because seeing the amount of Heroic 10 Man Guilds right now, compared to myself in a 25 man guild having downed 5/14HM so far, the difficulty is definitely much harder to play. More communication than 10 man guilds. No wonder 10 mans dominate more heroics than 25 man guilds. On ya, Blizz.

Shiet u must be blind or something. Have u seen this site BIG WEBSITE FOR RAIDERS?

[Dracodraco]

actually more 25 mans have downed heroic garrosh, a significant more amount of 25 mans have killed heroic garrosh.

now there are more guilds that have atleast a heroic boss killed because there are more 10 mans, but if theres more 10 man heroic raiding guilds why have more 25 mans guild garrosh? idk if what you said is true at all, now it's not always the same, like this tier i'd say 25 mans have it easier last tier 10 mans had it easier 100%.

More 25 mans have killed Garrosh because 25 mans are far more dedicated raiding-wise to start with. If you've got a leadership that can herd 30 cats around and kill bosses, keep a decent roster and sort internal disputes, then it'd be weird if it stopped there and they weren't also pushing progress. A shitton of 10 mans are "casual" 10 mans, and even the ones who have downed a heroic boss doesn't neccessarely need to be focused on heroic progress. The first 8 are all at a difficulty that rivals normal mode bosses from previous tiers.

[Akylios]

Good 10m HC guilds with solid leadership will last. The guilds that will fall apart are the ones made up of 10 friends who refuse to invite anyone else and only play with each other.

The guilds that will most likely fall apart are non-English speaking European guilds. The 10 man raid size is perfect for those who are most comfortable communicating in their own language, e.g. an absolutely huge part of the European raiding scene. For your average 10m HC guild, it's already extremely hard to find people from your own country who can share your raiding schedule, are on your skill level, are your age, happen to be playing the role you need and are actually looking for a guild. For forced 20 man raiding this will make an already very hard issue nigh impossible.

In short, the Mythic 20 man raids will alienate a massive proportion of the European raiding scene. It's as if Blizzard didn't even think this through as far as language barriers goes, which is mind boggling. It's as if they have no clue why 10 man raiding is so popular in Europe.

[Deathzero]

It's mind boggling how big a deal this is. People just need to learn to step out of their comfort zone.

[Zydas]

The guilds that will most likely fall apart are non-English speaking European guilds. The 10 man raid size is perfect for those who are most comfortable communicating in their own language, e.g. an absolutely huge part of the European raiding scene. For your average 10m HC guild, it's already extremely hard to find people from your own country who can share your raiding schedule, are on your skill level, are your age, happen to be playing the role you need and are actually looking for a guild. For forced 20 man raiding this will make an already very hard issue nigh impossible.

In short, the Mythic 20 man raids will alienate a massive proportion of the European raiding scene. It's as if Blizzard didn't even think this through as far as language barriers goes, which is mind boggling. It's as if they have no clue why 10 man raiding is so popular in Europe.

TBH i didnt really think of that. im the US we all speak english. You do have a good point though

[epLe]

Its a point but not that big, there are loads of english speaking guilds on EU realms.