Item squish is reducing stats by 96%

[Orcindauh]

This is elementary school math. How is this an issue for some people? Why are we even discussing this?

People who are all for item squish are the ones who must have done poorly in grade school math.
55M, 888B 2.3T. These are extremely easy to read and understand. I don't get how these numbers confuse people. It's basic math people. There is no point in squishing things if you are fairly decent in math. If you aren't then I'd understand why you are all for these changes.

[madmanx]

For the 1000th time..... This will have NO EFFECT what so ever on game play. They are just simplifying a little math, your numbers and mob numbers.

Believing that this will effect game play is as stupid as thinking that you will grow taller if you switch from feet and inches to the metric system.

I am sure there will be the odd mistake at first but trust me, Hogger is not going to rip your head off at 100.

[Tzalix]

at some point though you won't be able to squish anymore.

though since all content below 100 will be irelevent anyway, they could just totally remove the ilvl jumps from 60-70, 70-80, 8-85, 85-90, so that the jumps are no different than 40-50 for example. that would help get stats down quite a bit

This is how things will work in an ideal future if you ask me:

All end-game content, previous to the current expansion, is on the same level. Let's call that tier 1.
Let's say we get 3-4 tiers of new content each expansion. Those would be introduced as tier 2, 3, 4, and possibly 5.
When it's time for the next expansion, tier 2-5 is squished down to 1, which evens out the playing field.
And the cycle repeats.

This would allow for a first tier that is basically pre-raid. For those who have just dinged max-level, are just getting started raiding, they can go to any old content place and get introductionary gear for raiding, anything from classic MC to SoO, the gear is all the same.

When a new expansion hits, those people who raided the previous expansion will be able to skip this introductionary tier, because they already have tier 1 gear. This is assuming that they stop increasing the level cap each expansion, but it's not too important. The main concept still works.

[GROGtheNailer]

So big numbers are the reason you weren't subbed? Pretty stupid reason if you ask me.

One of the reasons. I could care less what you think why I resub or not, Blizzard is the one who matters. Also add in the new 20 man mythic raid number and Im in.

[Asmekiel]

Lo. No. Your logic and your math are flawed.

Ok, you show how your math with reducing everything by 96% works out.

[Xiu the Timewanderer]

This is literally too awesome for words.

[rahjr666]

People just don't understand it's healthier for the game to start off lower again, and they've learned from Cata/MoP that they went too far with how big numbers are getting, it HAD to happen eventually. You're going to be able to do everything you do today, the numbers are just going to be lower, god forbid we still get stronger as the game goes on, and just because they say it'll be lowered by a certain percent it doesn't mean that EVERYTHING in the game is going to be lowered by that amount.

[Lumineus]

It's pretty easy to understand how old content will work, they will probably crunch it with the same percent for the appropriate levels something like say :

60-70 = 50% stat squish, instances and mobs by 50%
70-80 = 60% stat squish, instances and mobs by 60%

They can also choose to buff you to the appropriate values, but I think that will be too confusing for most people.

Yeah, you got it backwards. To maintain the same curves, the downscaling has to go up as level decreases, not down. If MoP is nerfed by 96%, then Cata has to be nerfed by 97%, Wrath by at least 98%, BC by 99+%, and Classic practically flatlined. They didn't leave themselves enough room to work with. That's why I can't even begin to understand how this is supposed to work.

[Servasus]

Since you all like repeating that, I'll just repeat this:
You can't reduce everything by the same percentage.

Exactly.

Three items with 1000, 50 Intellect, and 30 Intellect get squished by 96%.

The item with 1000 intellect squishes correctly to 40 intellect. The item with 50 intellect gets squished to 2 Intellect. The item with 30 intellect gets squished to 1.2 Intellect. But obviously we can't have 1.2 Intellect on gear, so either the 1.2 gets raised to 2 Intellect, thus making the 50 Intellect item and the 30 Intellect item virtually the SAME ITEM, or it gets rounded down to 1 Intellect, making the 30 Intellect item an additional 16.66% more nerfed than the 50 Intellect item.

Same deal with an item that previously had 9 Intellect on it. 96% squish of a 9 Intellect item would be .36 Intellect. But again, since you can't have .36 Intellect on gear, it either has to be reduced to 0, effectively giving a 100% nerf from it's original item, or raised to 1 Intellect, effectively making it the SAME ITEM as a previous 30 intellect item.

Now multiply this all by 15-16 items per character and you'll start to see why no matter how they squish this (if they stay with such a large squish like 96%) there are going to be discrepancies in gear stat weights at lower levels, thus, making older content either stupidly hard to solo or stupidly easy.

This isn't really going to JUST affect max level players soloing content. It's also going to affect people leveling as well. Either in a positive or a negative way, which remains to be seen depending on what blizzard decides to do about decimal numbers on gear.

[Orcindauh]

One of the reasons. I could care less what you think why I resub or not, Blizzard is the one who matters. Also add in the new 20 man mythic raid number and Im in.

You are no better than the people who want to un sub because of these changes but w/e.

[hidey0shi]

I think this is scaling to do older content, because these stats are simply impossible in WoW at level 90. Seriously, think about it... 61 STR at level 90... what will you have at level 20? -10 STR? This is not the squish (although it will happen).

People still don't understand. Item squish will not only affect your items, but the stats on the NPCs will be squished too. That includes old content aswell, whatever you are able to solo now, you will be able to solo after the squish.

[Sarevokcz]

Mobs would need to be scaled down by a different percent, yes, but it would still be a constant % for all things (well, maybe diff percent for each expac).

Calculating the numbers to nerf the bosses/mobs to keep things the same is not hard.

and you base your assumption on....? thats right, your opinion. It might not be hard to adjust raids and dungeons for the intended levels, but with nonlinear squish, epsecially with numbers presented, its not really THAT hard to imagine say Ulduar being way too strong for MoP char.

And really, editing tens of thousands of spells as the hard part? have couple of interns go through them in a week...

[Deleted]

Since people seem to misunderstand... You can use 64-bit integers in a 32-bit program, it just isn't as efficient. The main difference between 32/64-bit for something like WoW's client just comes in how much memory is addressable, especially as the vast majority of the math calculations that could possibly involve huge integers are done server-side.

The big reasons for a stat squish are largely for readability (140 000 is easier to understand at-a-glance than 3 500 000) and just so they don't have to redo all their data types -- this, regardless of processor architecture, can be a pretty big undertaking. This is especially true if player stats are in danger of passing the limits of their data types in the database. Trying to change the data types for millions and millions of characters all in one day of maintenance on 6.0 pre-patch day? Shudder.

Wrong. The next expansion at the current rate would have put bosses in 10hc well over 2 billion hp and it would not work in 32bit anymore.

Go Ra'den 10 heroic, and let him gain hp over 1.94 billion, you'll see what I mean.

It's the main reason for the squish, enough people still use 32bit (especially developing or not so rich countries, and that's a huge market for them to explore).

[InfernalDark]

That's awesome, nothing else needs to be said

Idd its awesome.

[Wow]

Hmmm....Me thinks we got screwed. Not just screwed. Turned over and screwed without even a kiss or a callback.

Still to early to tell but part of me is with Trassk. Something wrong will happen that Blizz will royally screw up on.

Mop doubled the weapon dmg on all weapons so if you want to compare to the past you have to cut the weapon dmg on all the mmo or wowhead info in half and compare with that. And in doing that puts this weapon in range of normal 10m icc. And remember this is a lfr weapon which means a heroic weapon would be closer to shadowmourne dmg lvls. But this is also lvl 90 which means lvl 100 is most likely going to be cata stats.

[nayab9]

Mind blowing how many people don't understand the item squish... I honestly, I can't even comprehend how the human race functions sometimes.

"I won't be able to solo any old content!!!1onelelven!!!!" <--- Going to sign up for Mars one and hope for a better civilization.

[Asmekiel]

Wrong. The next expansion at the current rate would have put bosses in 10hc well over 2 billion hp and it would not work in 32bit anymore.

It's the main reason for the squish, enough people still use 32bit (especially developing or not so rich countries, and that's a huge market for them to explore).

I don't think you understand the difference between processors and integers.

[Deleted]

Yeah, you got it backwards. To maintain the same curves, the downscaling has to go up as level decreases, not down. If MoP is nerfed by 96%, then Cata has to be nerfed by 97%, Wrath by at least 98%, BC by 99+%, and Classic practically flatlined. They didn't leave themselves enough room to work with. That's why I can't even begin to understand how this is supposed to work.

Whichever works, you get the idea. But if they are going back to Wrath values which it seems like atm, they probably won't even touch anything before it, maybe smoothen the curve in stat difference a little bit though. So for example up to Wrath everything stays the same, Wrath slightly squished, with heavy squishing in Cata/mop to connect the curve from wrath to wod in a smooth manner.

[Melenkor]

People who are all for item squish are the ones who must have done poorly in grade school math.
55M, 888B 2.3T. These are extremely easy to read and understand. I don't get how these numbers confuse people. It's basic math people. There is no point in squishing things if you are fairly decent in math. If you aren't then I'd understand why you are all for these changes.

Easy to read and easy to comprehend are two different things (also I'd argue 888B is actually hard to read, because the B and 8 look similar).
It's much easier for your brain to soak up and understand doing 250 damage rather than 250,438 damage or even 250,438,289 damage, especially considering you're not gonna have a lot of focus and brain power to spend on glorying over you hueg damage when you're in the middle of a complex raid encounter.

[Rizendragon]

Nope. Just airheads whose brain capacity can't handle numbers with more than 1 comma, I guess.

And again because of more misinformation:

TC: "If we don't do the item squish it's going to require a lot of re-engineering of our combat code to actually support bigger numbers. We're getting really close to the point where the code can't..."
CS: "Yeah, the code can't compile the numbers"
TC: "Yeah it can't compile the numbers, so we are testing the item squish internally with the expansion, and I think a good time to launch it would be right before the next expansion so people are already used to it by the time the expansion launches. So, that's the current plan, but we'll see how it works out. I hope we can." (Source)