Suggestion for 10man heroic to 20man mythic transition

[Deleted]

Going from a 10man heroic guild to a 20man mythic guild will be a huge challenge for a lot of 10man guilds. Most definetly we will see a lot of guilds fall apart before 6.0 due to not being able to get those 10-13ish extra players needed for a 20man roster.

For a guild like my own, which is on a low pop realm with absolutely no pool of players to recruit from, the task of growing into 20 seems almost impossible. I'm doing most of my guilds recruiting and, i have to say, to get people to realm transfer and pay 40euros, switch to Alliance and start hanging out on a low pop realm (with nothing to do apart from raiding with my imba guild) is easier said than done. If not close to impossible. And now i need to get 10 players to do this transfer. 10players who also know how to play the game (not very common amongst players these days, if you ask me). Jeez, I've been trying to recruit a holy paladin for a year now. A rogue took us 1½ years.

So 10 more players is what I need. The thing is, I currently haven't got shit to offer those 10 new players. Our 10man roster is set for the remainder of the tier. Yeah, we could easily fit a resto shaman and/or a holy paladin, but that's pretty much it. Maybe a dps. Two players, not more.

This is where my suggetion comes in. A suggestion that will help every 10man heroic raiding guild out there to be able to grow into a 20man mythic raiding guild. And it will also help those players who are currently in 25man who won't make the future 20man team.

Make SoO heroic 10 and 25 heroic into flexible raidsize TODAY.

With heroic being flex i can start brining in all kinds of new players to our heroic clears and have plenty of time filling the roster. I can gradually add new players, try them out, get to know them, while i keep everyone in the roster entertained with raiding the current content. As it stands now i would have to keep all new players benched until WoD. "There's already flex raiding for you to do", you say. Yes, there is, but that's ez mode raiding most heroic guilds don't really do anymore. I think a lot of players would be interested in hoping in to our raids. We would even be able to fill up with some lesser geared players and have them see the content, get know our other members and grow into a really solid team for Warlords of Draenor.

The race is over. Noone gives a shit about in what pace people clear it now. The tech is already there to use. The earlier this is implemented the better it will be for the raiding community.

10man raiders win. 25mans win. Blizzard gets to keep subscribers. It's a win-win-win.

Straw

[Deleted]

Except that they have to retune everything, and that is wasted time that they could spend on releasing the expansion quicker.

[Deleted]

Except that they have to retune everything, and that is wasted time that they could spend on releasing the expansion quicker.

Most of that work is already done with the current flex. Mind you, it's not like they need to tune it for a race or anything, since that's already over. This would be a very fast thing for blizzard to implement and it would help the community tremendously.

[Deleted]

I fully agree with your points, but it looks like Blizzard isn't willing to spend the time implementing this when they could work on WoD instead.

Below my wall of text why it's going to be super hard for 10m heroic guilds to transition
==============
It's gonna be really challenging for 10m heroic guilds. It's not even about what to do in SoO when you have the roster neccesary, it's how are you gonna transition there?

10 man guilds generally have a roster of 12-13 people. For 20m Mythic raiding you will need a roster of 24 people. How are you gonna recruit 12 more skilled people of the class/spec that you are looking for?

Options:
-Run one 10 man. Have fun asking your recruits to sit on a 8 person bench for 6 months, or have fun saying to your current team that they won't get their BiS because they will be mixed out on half the fights.

-Run two 10 mans, which basically means that until you get a full roster you need to have a mix of alts/mains/recruits. Not looking forward to gearing up an alt for this, especially considering the gear will be replaced in one day when 6.0 hits.

-Run a heroic 25m with your full roster. Heroic SoO 25 is/will be so faceroll that you can easily 20-24 man this.

-Merge with another 10 man guild. Have fun trying to find a guild that matches your vent atmosphere, loot policy, officer policy AND class balance to compliment your own guild. Also have fun deciding which guild will have to realm transfer to the other guild.

Basically this whole thing is a mess, but in 1-2 years it will be better for the raiding game overall.

[Arcrin]

Going from a 10man heroic guild to a 20man mythic guild will be a huge challenge for a lot of 10man guilds. Most definetly we will see a lot of guild fall apart before 6.0 due to not being able to get those 10-13ish extra players needed for a 20man roster.

For a guild like my own, which is on a low pop realm with absolutely no pool of players to recruit from, the task of growing into 20 seems almost impossible. I'm doing most of my guilds recruiting and, i have to say, to get people to realm transfer and pay 40euros, switch to Alliance and start hanging out on a low pop realm (with nothing to do apart from raiding with my imba guild) is easier said than done. If not close to impossible. And now i need to get 10 players to do this transfer. 10players who also know how to play the game (not very common amongst players these days, if you ask me). Jeez, I've been trying to recruiting a holy paladin for a year now. A rogue took us 1½ years.

So 10 more players is what I need. The thing is, I currently haven't got shit to offer those 10 new players. Our 10man roster is set for the remainder of the tier. Yeah, we could easily fit a resto shaman and/or a holy paladin, but that's pretty much it. Maybe a dps. Two players, not more.

This is where my suggetion comes in. A suggestion that will help every 10man heroic raiding guild out there to be able to grow into a 20man mythic raiding guild. And it will also help those players who are currently in 25man who won't make the future 20man team.

Make SoO heroic 10 and 25 heroic into flexible raidsize TODAY.

With heroic being flex i can start brining in all kinds of new players to our heroic clears and have plenty of time filling the roster. "There's already flex raiding for you to do", you say. Yes, there is, but that's ez mode raiding most heroic guilds don't really do anymore. I think a lot of players would be interested in hoping in to our raids. We would even be able to fill up with some lesser geared players and have them see the content, get know our other members and grow into a really solid team for Warlords of Draenor.

The race is over. Noone gives a shit about in what pace people clear it now. The tech is already there to use. The earlier this is implemented the better it will be for the raiding community.

10man raiders win. 25mans win. Blizzard gets to keep subscribers. It's a win-win-win.

Straw

You know that free 90 you get right what if you made that on a good server and remade your guild there. yes you would loose your golds and what not but you got a free guild transfer.

[Deleted]

recruiting 10 people isn't even very viable because you will need to find/trial them all on farm content. guild merger has a ton of problems as well.

bottom line, most 10HC guilds are f*cked.

[Deleted]

I like the idea. Shame it won't happen though.

Told ya I didn't like the change!

[Gliff]

I'm hoping they make SoO flexible when they release the PRE WoD patch which would be out a month or so before WoD to start the event.

[Deleted]

I'm hoping they make SoO flexible when they release the PRE WoD patch which would be out a month or so before WoD to start the event.

At the least. Thing is, building a raidgroup takes time, that's why i think it's so important that blizzard implements flex heroic asap.

[Deleted]

Actually the OP is a pretty good idea to make current heroic flex scale. Even if the flex scaling doesn't make it perfectly balanced at all sizes from 10-25 and everything in between, its close enough and now worlds first race is long over it hardly matters. Servers still have server first races going on of course but seeing as all the 10 and 25 man guilds will have a major shake up anyway, then again, it hardly matters.

[Deleted]

Actually the OP is a pretty good idea to make current heroic flex scale. Even if the flex scaling doesn't make it perfectly balanced at all sizes from 10-25 and everything in between, its close enough and now worlds first race is long over it hardly matters. Servers still have server first races going on of course but seeing as all the 10 and 25 man guilds will have a major shake up anyway, then again, it hardly matters.

Yeah, I had some thoughts about those realm first achievments and how it would affect them. Then i realised it wouldnt affect them at all. If 10 players in group you're elegible for the 10 realm first, bosses tuned as is. 25 you can get the 25man realm first, bosses tuned as is. 11-24 players no realm first available.

Might be some issues with loot. But honestly i don't think anyone really cares. Either utilise the current personal system thats in flex or utilise the new WoD scaling (if it's ready). I wouldn't mind if it dropped 1 item per boss for flex heroic as long as i could start working on getting my raidteam ready

[Bonkura]

This is a really good idea. If ranks would would be an issue (I doubt people care for world ranks outside of finishing the tier, but I know people care for realm ranks still), make it so you need Garrosh HC achi as a leader to change/queue flex heroic (and Garrosh normal achi to queue normal flex).

[Deleted]

I'm hoping they make SoO flexible when they release the PRE WoD patch which would be out a month or so before WoD to start the event.

At the very least this. It's a great idea to be fair and will allow 10HC guilds to make the transition to 20 man content more easily, instead of either having to run 2 10mans for the time being, putting half your future raid team on hold or not recruiting at all until WoD hits, which will slow down progress.

[Deleted]

Same story here for our 10m guild, gonna require some drastic changes.

What i'm wondering though, normal/heroic (in WoD language) will still be available in 10 and 25m version? If the guild continues to the Mythic version, they'll have to bench 5 ppl from that 25m heroic (normal) group?

[Soulzar]

Same story here for our 10m guild, gonna require some drastic changes.

What i'm wondering though, normal/heroic (in WoD language) will still be available in 10 and 25m version? If the guild continues to the Mythic version, they'll have to bench 5 ppl from that 25m heroic (normal) group?

Only Mystic will be fixed size, all other raid difficulties will flex from 10-25

[Mini]

Flex sized SoO Heroic is a great idea to help 10 mans transition. I doubt Blizz will invest the resources though, so it probably won't happen.

My impression from the 20 man Mythic size is that 10H guilds are not important to Blizz.

Something that would be much easier to implement would be a cheap, multiple character server transfer/faction transfer to facilitate guild mergers.

[Tiberria]

What 10 man guilds that are trying to start recruiting up to 20 man will just have to do until they get to about 20 people is either.
(1) rotate new recruits in during farm bosses. Your existing 10 man team will have to deal with sitting for farm bosses a lot more than they are used to during the transitional phase
(2) set up a secondary run on the weekend where you use the new recruits + alts to fill in the rest of the raid. If you have resistance from your current core on sitting more on farm to trial new recruits, offer them the option of this instead (which will require more raid nights for a lot of people)

Once you get your numbers to 20+, you should be looking to split and run 2 10 man runs, especially once progression is done. I would suggest balancing the runs evenly instead of your original core being one group and the new recruits being another to avoid some of the A team/B team/clique feeling that would create. If you get your numbers up to close to 25 (which is probably where a healthy 20 man roster needs to be) and everyone shows up, you can also run as a 25 man.

[Keepwatukill]

The only way to go from 10 heroic to 20 Mythic before WoD hits is to turn your 10 man into a 25 heroic run for the remainder of the SoO. It is WAAAAAY easier to go from 25 down to 20 than 10 to 20 especially when you can't get the 10 new recruits any raiding time in SoO without drama. I'm in a 10 heroic guild and we will most likely merge or more likely swallow another 10 man guild. There is no such thing as a "merger" just like in the corporate world. One company ends up swallowing the other in any merger or more accurately acquisition. So if you want to keep your guild intact than look for weaker 10 man targets or just go 25 man for the rest of MoP.

[Nobleshield]

I would love for normal (at least) to have variable size NOW so we can start recruiting people in preparation. As it stands it's too early to recruit because SOO is still "current" content and nobody is going to join a guild right now if they won't get to raid until next expansion.

[Spotnick]

Pretty sure your best bet is to join a 25 man raiding guild asap instead of trying to recruit for your 10 man. 25 man guilds will survive while the majority of the 10 man guilds will disband in the new few months.

Seems like the smartest move to me. Of course there is plenty of time to do it, but that what I'd do once progression is over.