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  1. #21
    Pit Lord Odina's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Montreal, Quebec, Canada
    Thank you all so much for the comments it is extreemly useful and we are reading them all and discussing them on guild forums and in game.

    The rockbitter trick to get an extra taunt is cool !
    S.priest helped us out as 5 hours before raid a member up and quit the game...not the ideal boss to just jump in and start raiding on!

    @Lamp you sexy ex-co tank you :P thanks so much for the help and the WOL! Will deff take a look at it.

    @santa666 beard on brother Beard on!(it's a warrior thing)

    Just wanted to say thank you once again and let you know that all the comments are much apreciated and being used!

    PS: Also can't say thank you enough for the PM's I recieved from many in here like Karlzone with more precise help! Mucho apreciated!
    Last edited by Odina; 2013-11-15 at 02:35 PM.

  2. #22
    I kill this this week actually on my Horde priest. Here's the log for refrence.

    Here's what I can see based on the problems you are bringing up.

    Quote Originally Posted by Odina View Post
    -All adds go to pallie tank even though RF is being taken off as we land from transition and this is causing most of our problems as once they touch consecrate well GG no one can get them off him.
    This can mean only one thing, the dps and healers in your raid are not picking up adds on their own and pulling them away from the boss. If they don't put fort effort to do this they will just end up running to the tank. On my priest I almost immediately smite the add as it spawns and If I see any others running around near me I cast Void Tendrils to control them.

    Take a look at what abilities your raid has to control the movement of these empowered adds.

    Void Tendrils x2
    Ice Trap
    Frost Nova
    Earthgrab Totem
    Typhoon to knock them back from the tanks

    Use all of these abilities to force the adds to do what you want them to do. Keep them away as long as you can until they are dead or until you have to stack up for the mind control. If you still have 2-3 alive but at low health when you have to stack up again it isn't the end of the world. Just kill them as fast as you can.

    Quote Originally Posted by Odina View Post
    -Multiple people get hit by the aoe splash dmg and we loose one or 2 >.<
    -Seems like a lot of us are low health a this point as the disc priest and holy pallie are running and we are spread out so seems like just a huge cluster fuck of low HPS at the moment were taking High raid dmg.
    The AOE Splash damage + Whirl damage will kill people if you don't use external cooldowns to survive it. When you come out of the 2nd transition you have your ranged stand out for the weapon, then they stack for the mind control. Now during this MC time if they aren't the ones being MC'd they should begin casting Spirit Shell and blanket the raid. If they do get MC'd the'll need to use Inner Focus to speed it up once they get broken out. Spirit Shell + Devotion Aura from your tank should be more then enough to keep people alive.

    For the second empowerment you can use a combination of PW:S blanketing from the priest, eternal flame blanketing from the pally, and a Vamp Embrace from your shadow priest. Again that should be enough to keep people alive.

    By now the boss should be down close to transition. Snare/Tank any leftover adds and push the boss into transition to phase 3. You can always clean up those adds when Garrosh is transitioning. Push the boss

    Welcome to phase 3.

    Ignore the adds, and use all external cooldowns on rotation to survive.

    Spirit Shell
    Rallying Cry/Demo Banner
    Devo Aura
    Healing Tide Totem

    Stay focused. Your priorities on this phase are Mind Control > Boss. You need to make damn sure that you handle those MC's. You CANNOT have people standing way out in ranged all by themselves when MC hits cause they will just wreck your raid. The only thing people need to be doing is spreading out for the empowered whirlwind, and stacking up for mind control. That's it. Focus on your priorities, pop hero, and kill the boss.

  3. #23
    The Patient Grum88's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Uk, England
    Looking at logs your feral and shadow priest are really low on dps. You need to address this to them. ^^

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post
    if u are hiting third set of adds then ur dps just isnt enough - tell your dpses to shape up or maybe u just need to gear up people more - also there is really no reason to 3 heal this fight unless u are extremly overgeared and ur 3rd healer is just to lazy to switch to dps spec for farming garosh -_- also if u say that your hps isnt enough well then your healers need to stop slacking too -_- maybe make them 2 heal all 13/14 fights for week or 2 to shape them up a bit ?
    Actually I believe our dps is fine, its our hps that's lacking, hence we go with 3 healers (just feels extremely tight if we don't). Part of the problem is our druid not having the legendary meta gem and cloak yet. So running with 5 dpsers make it tough to not reach a 3rd set of adds. As a tank I solo tank the first phase, pull about 600k dps and we manage to transition the boss after 2 sets of adds, which is pretty nice. Second phase, we tried taunting off at 3-4 stacks and we also tried at 7 stacks, I believe the later was actually a dps gain for us, but also risky to pull with 2 healers (and I'm a DK, we're extremely spikey on this fight). After tonight I'll have logs.

  5. #25
    to be honest, we've pulled off empowered whirls coming out of both healers being mind controlled a few seconds before, and the only big issue for your resto druid on this fight will be the loss of free regrowths and rejuvs from the proc if they know how to use it (which is equal to very high amounts of spirit actually), but even then, just make sure your people are using cooldowns like I posted above and that your druid is has rejuv on the entire raid before whirls starts, then once it does or is close, swiftmend, WG, genesis, and throw rejuvs and blow up your shroom, as even a less geared resto drood is probably the 3rd or 4th most preferable possible healers for whirls (after priests and a mistweaver that knows how to sync their TFT w/ whirl so that they have 9-12 people w/ mists every whirl)

    second phase, I'd say keep the tank debuff low, because if you're having healer issues, a giant dot on the tank isn't going to help them much during aoe dmg, but personally, as long as you know how to use cooldowns you should be fine w/ just your disc priest and resto drood alternating between nature's vigil and spirit shell or just a disc priest and your mistweaver alternating between spirit shell and double chi brew for 2 extra fast uplifts

    also before, you said there were still mc's being handled while spread out from whirl's aftermath, meaning you just need to kill adds faster and get back together vefore (especially if you have more 2 melee dps or more)

    the healing issue probably isn't that its hard to handle and more due to your healers not being better at watching dbm and preparing for it while the rest of the raid is killing the mind controls

    so yah, try and have your healers alternate between their personal cooldowns for each 2 and have your raid alternate between a set of 4 3 minute cooldowns like tranq and devo aura, healing tides, ancestral guidance, demobanner and rallying cry, revival, hymn etc. (you can use smoke bombs and barriers, but I mean, you won't get much out of them)
    realistically, you may not always be able to stick with it due mind controls also this is like the only mechanic in normal modes that can really justify using soul of the forest on tranquility

    if both healers get mind controlled and your healers can get hots or shields out, call for extra stuff, also make sure people are actually dodging the add spawning purple swirls, because that's probably where your deaths are coming from (seriously, whirl alone is survivable w/o receiving a single heal at range, I'm pretty sure it doesn't quite out damage an person's max hp)

    also phase 3 isn't really as bad as some people claim it to be unless you left something unchecked in phase 2 that may come back to bite you or someone wanders off and walls off half the raid from the rest with desecrate, but really, just make sure your dps is good enough to deal with the constant flowing rhythm of adds and positioning (i.e. the rhythm of desecrate, mind control, then whirl over and over again in a 45s period) and you'll be fine for this fight and immerseus

    your healers also may just not be responding well to the stacks breaking and some people going so far that even prayer of healing gets outranged into barely working, so you might just want to consider dodging the purple swirls in a loosely stacked group or at least generally loose enough that casting what aoe heals your raid has available aren't worthless

  6. #26
    Handling the empowered whirls IS the fight, everything else about the entire encounter is trivial.

    Don't use consecration when adds are up, simple as that. It isn't a significant increase to damage on garrosh and by the time adds appear there is certainly no lack of threat on the boss. Stop using it. Also get the paladin to glyph the shield so it only hits one target. No reason for it to bounce on this fight, just risks bad things happening. If you are constantly having problems with the paladin stealing threat off the adds, i'd say get him to make a macro to drop RF and remove seal of insight at a push of a button right before the adds spawn, then reapply them with another push of the button after the fact. Or if RF is on the GCD, two pushes I guess, but either way that should solve that problem completely. If he is still getting adds on him, its because he is HITTING them and because your dps aren't doing their jobs.

    The best thing to do to handle the adds themselves is get each DPS to pickup the add that spawns from the whirl that targets them, and if you didn't get a whirl, attack that is on someone else. Honestly these adds melt like butter with good ranged dps, you can kill half of them before the whirl is even finished casting, long before they ever have time to group up or go after anyone. If your dps aren't getting it done fast enough, tell em to make targeting macros for it. If adds become stacked, get people with taunts to spread em. Whoever isnt tanking garrosh at the time can pull one away from the others, the holy pally can taunt one away from others, the feral druid can even swap to bear for a sec to taunt one then swap back.

    May also be worth mentioning my group continues to kill desecrated weapons throughout phase 2 until we exit the transition where empowered whirls begin, then we just completely ignore the weps and focus on adds/garrosh/mcs.

    Aside from just before when he throws a desecrated weapon, all your people should be stacked right on the boss. Lets melee and tanks help kill/interrupt MCs, and just move over to drop weapons a bit away.

    Honestly it boils down to this... Some fights require the tanks to be awesome, some fights require the heals to be awesome. Garrosh is a DPS fight. Not a dps race, but a DPS competence check. They have got to switch targets quickly, burn shit quickly, and handle mechanics appropriately or you're fucked. Healing the fight is a joke (lol solo heal heroic) as long as the DPS do what they are supposed to do such as grabbing damage reduction orbs in transitions, don't get hit by empowered whirls, etc etc. If DPS do their jobs right, healing is easy as pie. And the only stress on the tanks honestly is phase 1, beyond that it's a tank and spank cakewalk for the most part aside from helping burn/interrupt MCs.

    It all falls to your dps to do their shit right, and wiping on garrosh for 3 weeks sounds like you have DPS who aren't up to snuff. All the DPS in the world doesn't matter if you can't handle mechanics.
    I like ponies and I really don't care what you have to say about that.

  7. #27
    For the paladin tank, let him use hand of salvation on himself. It has a 2 mins CD, but reduces further threat-regen. I use that on CD when all the small adds come, so they don't come for the healing aggro, which is the problem there.
    If you communicate well you could have the paladin healer do the same on the prot tank.

    The aoe splash. People should just move. It's visible in time ahead, so they can just move from it. Save spirit shell for it when that one is of cd? You're all running far away from the empowered swirl? It does more damage the closer you are to it.
    Forgot to mention devo aura is nice for whirl too. 20% reduced damage during it is nice, and you have 2 of those
    One more thing.
    You often lose people to annihilate. If your prot paladin feel he can handle it, let him use eternal flame on as many in the raid as possible during it. I do that, to make that part smoother.
    You can also let the paladin take garrosh during each swirl, and pull him away from the raid. His eternal flame is plenty strong enough to not have to bother being in healing range during that.
    Last edited by Terridon; 2013-11-17 at 12:08 PM.
    Everyone has so much to say
    They talk talk talk their lives away

  8. #28
    Hello OP!

    Figured I'd pitch in.
    Me and my guild just finished off Garrosh on HC, and whilst thats completely different from Normal, the way you described your tactic makes it sound very similar to how we deal with him on HC. And really, after that, its just a matter of numbers as HC differs very little from Normal until the extra phase at the end.

    So, we dont kill "most" desecrated weapons, we do kill off the weapons that spawns after the 2nd Transition, so we can use the same area over and over for the adds. That gives us half the room to work with for Phase 3, although Phase 3 lasts a whole lot longer on Heroic.

    I also took a quick look through your logs, mainly to figure out why your Pally tank is getting adds on him and how to fix it, as I myself plays a pally tank and I had to fix it
    It's pretty easy to figure out that he's not turning off RF on every attempt where you get that far, which will result in him getting adds. There's just no way he'll get massive aggro off his heals and conc when RF isn't running. For example, on Heroic, I have an EF HoT off about 300k+ running all the time, including when adds are spawning, and I do not get aggro off them, infact I have too work fast to make sure the ones that spawn on me dont run off. I also taunt adds in once the melee area is safe, so I can kill those off aswell.

    I'll give you a link to our kill, now this is Heroic, but I want you to focus on a specific part of the fight, that doesn't differ from Normal except things have higher health. Which is Empowered Whirl Adds and how we handle them.
    Jump to about 6:50 for Empowered Whirls

    And if you want to see it from a dps' PoV (Ret Pally though, and noone really likes them):

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Karlzone View Post
    But dps is definitely a reason for them not having killed it yet. You've done the fight yourself. Like on Sha hc you just can't affort to slack at any part, as it'll slowball out of control. You don't have many seconds to kill the empowered adds, before you need to stack for MC's. Ignoring low dps will just hurt the guild.
    Yeh agreed I just don't think that this is the kind of guild where progress > friendship etc And they can definitely kill it without more dps if they fix other issues first

    Welcome to WoD Please enjoy your stay!

  10. #30
    Pally should definitely use Hand of Salvation on himself when the added head for him. Sometimes it makes the other tank take the boss back and get extra stacks, but he should be able to handle it. I use that trick myself (along with turning off RF ahead of time) and as soon as I pop it the adds head right back toward the DPS. Then I can taunt one back to handle myself.

  11. #31
    Pit Lord Odina's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Montreal, Quebec, Canada
    I can't thank peoepl enough for all the tips and tricks! Going to start a fresh run wednesday and hop to get a couple attempts in on Garosh to put all this information to good use!

  12. #32
    All adds go to pallie tank even though RF is being taken off as we land from transition and this is causing most of our problems as once they touch consecrate well GG no one can get them off him.
    If he removes RF prior to the add phase, then they will NOT gravitate to him. To be honest, it's more likely that he forgot to do that (I've done the same; it's easy to forget on progression when everything's intensified). Think about it: without RF, his healer aggro is among the lowest in the entire raid. The adds would by default, provided they're not picked up by DPS, aggro to the healers who've generated the most threat, and it certainly wouldn't be from his ticks of SoI/EF. What I think happens is that he forgets to do it a few times, turning it off most times, and those select encounters are being remembered/emphasized as "it happens even if he removes RF."

    I've never combed logs looking for something like this, so it's possible that I'm misinterpreting information:

    [22:15:20.661] Vailness's Righteous Fury fades from Vailness
    [22:15:20.661] Vailness gains Righteous Fury from Vailness

    [00:19:06.916] Vailness's Righteous Fury fades from Vailness
    [00:19:06.916] Vailness casts Righteous Fury
    [00:19:06.916] Vailness Righteous Fury Vailness Immune

    He disabled/enabled RF at the exact same time...I'm guessing that he's got an issue with his RF macro. I know that I did on this fight, so to remedy the problem I made a /cancelaura macro ONLY and then clicked on RF when I wanted it back.

  13. #33
    Empowered Whirling is the hardest part of the fight. Get clean transitions (lots of people with buff), so you can save CDs.

    We just spread out and use personals or whatever (as an ele shaman, i pop a damage reduction, and then either AG or HTT, and heal myself a couple of times).

    Not sure why you wouldn't kill the weapons. You might run out of room later on.

    Why is a paladin using consecrate at that point? Just stop using it?

    Survive the Empowered Whirling, then all you need to do it focus on interrupting/killing Empowered MCs, and you should be good.

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