No Blood Gear, No Blood XP, 3rd Tank for Shamans?

[shokter]

My alt is a 544 FDK, and I've 0 Blood gear and 0 Blood XP beyond just now leafing through a quick guide. The group I sometimes run with for fun on this alt is going to be trying for their 1st Dark Shaman kill (normal, yes I know....slow) tonight. I'm thinking I can make it much easier on them by making a quick Blood spec and being the 2nd Haromm tank, but am wondering if having no blood gear, gems, or reforges will be more trouble for them than it's worth? We took 2 or 3 stabs at it last night with 2 tanks and it was kind of a mess. Probably doable if the 2 tanks clean it up (a lot), but will simply adding myself as a quasi-derp 3rd tank be workable?

[Sunnydee]

tbh. going 3 tanks for dark shamans normal would prob hurt the raid more then 2 due to losing a dps..

get the tanks to learn how to swap proper and what to do during specific events during the fight

[shokter]

tbh. going 3 tanks for dark shamans normal would prob hurt the raid more then 2 due to losing a dps..

well that's up for debate, but perhaps I should've phrased the question this way:

Can a dps DK function as the 2nd Haromm tank in a 3 tank Dark Shaman strat with NO Tank gear and little knowledge, but in Blood Spec, without overworking heals?

[Deleted]

I'm don't know about DKs specifically, but being the 2nd tank on Haromm normal is very easy. It might be a good idea to rotate some cooldowns for the 4th-5th debuff stack if your gear isn't very good, but that's about it.

I can also confirm that a 3rd tank is worth it even for normal (I have done it both ways). Assuming your raid is splitting the bosses correctly the fight becomes somewhat of a joke.

[Sunnydee]

well that's up for debate, but perhaps I should've phrased the question this way:

Can a dps DK function as the 2nd Haromm tank in a 3 tank Dark Shaman strat with NO Tank gear and little knowledge, but in Blood Spec, without overworking heals?

well. as i never ever seen it being 3 tanked on normal, all i can say is: on heroic we are using a warrior in full dps gear but slapping on a shield as third tank. if he can do that on hc then you most likely can in normal with somewhat decent gear (aka no timesless lolol isle gear)

In other words. try... if it works then well, it works

[Nangz]

Normal does not need 3 tanks, the reason you use 3 on heroic is because the chance of getting insta-gibbed by a tomb or a prison at the same time as other damage is reasonably high.

On normal the only chance people have for dying is by standing in stuff until they die and by poor handling of the last ticks of the mist debuff. 3 tanking doesn't fix that and forces one healer into healing the bottom on their own.

One suggestion I have to make it less chaotic is to tank the caster away from the melee guy, when you tank swap you keep them apart. Otherwise risk of death is the same as if you split them up.

[hasslehoof]

well that's up for debate, but perhaps I should've phrased the question this way:

Can a dps DK function as the 2nd Haromm tank in a 3 tank Dark Shaman strat with NO Tank gear and little knowledge, but in Blood Spec, without overworking heals?

I tanked the Female boss in all dps gear this week, so yes it should be fairly easy, just rotate cds when you hit 25% because they get Bloodlust.

[Deleted]

On normal the only chance people have for dying is by standing in stuff until they die and by poor handling of the last ticks of the mist debuff. 3 tanking doesn't fix that and forces one healer into healing the bottom on their own.

spliting fix this, this is due to how the storms work, because tornados spawn and move to the position of the one player ( position he have in the moment it spawn). So if you send all melee with haromm, tornados will spawn only on range and this allow to tank Kardris in the center and range going clockwise without any risk to have tornado in front

the second adv. is when Haromm cast Foul Stream and you have only melee on him there is no passibility to die with this

[Nangz]

The point is that splitting them up doesn't solve the real problems of the fight: people standing in the bad.

[Chuckadoodle]

Honestly just tank the chick, AMS/Glyphed Dark Sim and you are golden, she does next to no melee damage and glyphed regen magic for AMS and the fight is a joke.

[shokter]

Eh well this thread was not meant to debate the merits of 3 tanking on normal (though it really, really does simplify the fight), I was just asking if not having any tank gear, gems, forge etc would be a hindrance. Tried it tonight and yeah, easy peesy. Even forgot to swap Runeforges from Fallen Crusader. With all the short term CDs Blood DKs apparently have holding Haromm just long enough for the MTs stacks to fall was not at all an issue.

[Taninsam]

I've been doing this for a while in Frost DW gear (pure mastery, quite fitting for a surv build). If you know a basic rotation and know a couple of cds just in case, you'll be just fine.

[TenDance]

tbh. going 3 tanks for dark shamans normal would prob hurt the raid more then 2 due to losing a dps..

get the tanks to learn how to swap proper and what to do during specific events during the fight

Not at all. You got two issues during this fight on normal: melee getting hugged by slimes and generally chaotic gameplay due to rng stuff, some missplaced walls (it happens, even if you've done this multiple times...). Take Haromm away, let your melee beat him up somewhere else which will increase their uptime. On the other hand, way less stuff happening around Kardriss and generally less AoE overlapping. Therefore your casters won't have to move that often. Moving casters do measurable less damage, therefore their DPS will increase. And, easier handling of the slimes.

I somewhat enjoy'd it on normal "regularly" with two tanks, since using the three tank tactic is quite boring. But it is effective and the more robust approach.

@TE: all you need is sufficient ilvl since most of the damage you SHOULD care about is magic damage (so, in short: CD management). ilvl takes care of your Stamina and Armor needs, slap on a solid chunk of mastery and haste - both solid DPS stats - and your gear will be fine. Even if you got some crit on your gear, you wont die due to that

edit: Fallen Crusader is a pretty good tanking enchant. In fact, there are few fights where I would even consider swapping it. Stoneskin isn't that effective versus magic damage and the parry doesn't influence riposte, therefore... back in the days when stoneskin had been a huge part of you getting uncrittable, I would've told you otherwise. But nowadays...

[Trubo]

The point is that splitting them up doesn't solve the real problems of the fight: people standing in the bad.

But it does minimize the number of people that can stand in a specific bad. Now if people are dying after the first 10% then it's not a matter of the boss being hard but people derping it up.