World pvp state

[Delaios]

No. Why can't the be exactly the same?

It should be about skill, and not about gear type. It wasn't nice when PvP gear was better in world PvP, and it isn't nice when PvE gear is better in world PvP. Equal ilvls plz. Resilience is (and should be) character baseline anyway.

Worst suggestion ever. As long as PvP gear has the same stats as PvE gear of the same item level, PvP gear has to be of lower item level than PvE gear. Currently the gap is just far too large because of item level inflation (LFR, Flex, Normal, Normal Warforged, Heroic, Heroic Warforged) and ridiculous scaling. PvPers are stuck at 522 item level and normal mode gear is 561 when upgraded.

If PvP gear was equal to normal mode gear, a large amount of raiders would feel forced to cap Conquest each week to get pretty much guaranteed loot, in some cases even being able to pick gear with perfect secondary stats.

A better solution would be to lower item level jumps between PvE gear qualities, scrap thunderforged/warforged (it was mostly an incentive to raid 25 man anyway, which will be scrapped in WoD), reduce proc strength and proc rates for PvE trinkets on players and possibly add bonusses to PvP gear (notably weapons and trinkets) that reduce damage taken when NOT in Arena/BG and increase damage to players when NOT in Arena/BG. The latter probably wouldn't be needed if the other options are done right.

[Reveries1]

You realise that the majority of complaints have sparked from the top PvPers? That isn't opinion, it's the fact that they can't touch lower skilled players just because of gear. That is evidence, if you say it isn't (which you definitely implied so don't try to go back) then what does count as evidence? (my point in question)

So these top pvpers.. Where are they complaining about this? I would like to think they understand that heroic pve gear is better than their gear in the world.

The world is PVE with PVP encounters. Maybe they should just disable the use of pvp gear outside of instanced pvp.

[Coraulten]

I don't understand, you claimed that because "alot" of people had the same opinion as you that somehow made it true. which is the logical fallacy--bandwagon. And you translated that into me not accepting anything as evidence?

But now you made another logical fallacy-- https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/appeal-to-authority

Just because an authoritative figure says something does not make it true.

[TJ]

So these top pvpers.. Where are they complaining about this? I would like to think they understand that heroic pve gear is better than their gear in the world.

The world is PVE with PVP encounters. Maybe they should just disable the use of pvp gear outside of instanced pvp.

Because it makes gear triumph over skill. Whilst it doesn't affect them directly in arena, they still acknowledged the stupidity of the change and agreed it should be different. Hell, before you get the wrong assumption, it doesn't affect me either. If anything, it helps me atm since I'm gearing for PvE. But that doesn't make it any different because the point still stands.

What they should do is remove base resilience from outside arena and BG's and remove the huge gap between the gear, which I think someone mentioned. Then you'd have it similar to how it was in Wrath, PvE gear was more of something used for big crits and not an instawin factor. If you then switched to PvE gear you would become a glass cannon, aka you swap survivability for more damage instead of becoming a boss.

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I don't understand, you claimed that because "alot" of people had the same opinion as you that somehow made it true. which is the logical fallacy--bandwagon. And you translated that into me not accepting anything as evidence?

But now you made another logical fallacy-- https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/appeal-to-authority

Just because an authoritative figure says something does not make it true.

I looked through the list and knew you'd link that when I said top PvPers, which makes me return to my original question of what counts as evidence then? Because apparently, you think nothing does.

[Coraulten]

Because it makes gear triumph over skill. Whilst it doesn't affect them directly in arena, they still acknowledged the stupidity of the change and agreed it should be different. Hell, before you get the wrong assumption, it doesn't affect me either. If anything, it helps me atm since I'm gearing for PvE. But that doesn't make it any different because the point still stands.

What they should do is remove base resilience from outside arena and BG's and remove the huge gap between the gear, which I think someone mentioned. Then you'd have it similar to how it was in Wrath, PvE gear was more of something used for big crits and not an instawin factor. If you then switched to PvE gear you would become a glass cannon, aka you swap survivability for more damage instead of becoming a boss.

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I looked through the list and knew you'd link that when I said top PvPers, which makes me return to my original question of what counts as evidence then? Because apparently, you think nothing does.

Why would you intentionally use a fallacy? I can't answer you what is valid evidence, evidence needs to be presented in order for it to be evaluated.

[TJ]

Why would you intentionally use a fallacy? I can't answer you what is valid evidence, evidence needs to be presented in order for it to be evaluated.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6P5DyyAYHZo

With added jokes you can clearly see the point he is making, and don't say he has no idea, he does act like an idiot but he is a good player. He mentions "PvE geared player's spells hitting 3 times as hard as mine".

[Hegemonia]

TJ you are being trolled, don't feed the trolls.


Please don't post just to call trolling. ~Snuggli

[TJ]

TJ you are being trolled, don't feed the trolls.

I wouldn't point to trolling with everything, I just think he is incredibly arrogant and genuinely thinks he is correct. Either way, I think enough is enough ;> I'm out. Some evidence is there, he can look for more or see for himself :>

[Coraulten]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6P5DyyAYHZo

With added jokes you can clearly see the point he is making, and don't say he has no idea, he does act like an idiot but he is a good player. He mentions "PvE geared player's spells hitting 3 times as hard as mine".

There you go, this is much better than simply saying "Alot of people agree with me" or "majority of the high end pvpers agree with me"

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I wouldn't point to trolling with everything, I just think he is incredibly arrogant and genuinely thinks he is correct. Either way, I think enough is enough ;> I'm out. Some evidence is there, he can look for more or see for himself :>

Pointing out logical faults in reasoning = arrogant? And i never even stated my position on the subject, i merely thought your reasoning was bad.

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TJ you are being trolled, don't feed the trolls.

Pointing out logical faults is being a troll?

[TJ]

Not biting ;D

[Nicola]

Guys, please, chill out, thank you.

[Coraulten]

Not biting ;D

We were having a civil argument i don't understand why you have to start implying that i am trolling.

[Deleted]

TJ you are being trolled, don't feed the trolls.

Calling people trolls cause they dont agree with your opinions is just childish, come on.

[Krixooks]

The state of PvE vs PvP gear in WPvP:
http://youtu.be/FLTOxCs3IDk

(I made this last night)

[Molestron]

The state of PvE vs PvP gear in WPvP:
http://youtu.be/FLTOxCs3IDk

(I made this last night)

Zomg, l2p, etc etc etc etc hur durr.

[mistahwilshire]

Do people not remember geared PvE shamans with sulfuras obliterating people in blackrock all day long back in Vanilla? World PvP has ALWAYS been dominated by geared raiders and the entire thing has never been anything more than a silly sidegame. Stop acting like it's ever been good or balanced or ever will be. It's not a focus for the dev team and it shouldn't be.

[Molestron]

Do people not remember geared PvE shamans with sulfuras obliterating people in blackrock all day long back in Vanilla? World PvP has ALWAYS been dominated by geared raiders and the entire thing has never been anything more than a silly sidegame. Stop acting like it's ever been good or balanced or ever will be. It's not a focus for the dev team and it shouldn't be.

Blizzard knew that was wrong, so they introduced Resilience. And now they are taking it away.

[Deleted]

The state of PvE vs PvP gear in WPvP:
http://youtu.be/FLTOxCs3IDk

(I made this last night)

You're on the timeless isle, he had about every buff from there + his own foodbuff + flask + prepot etc.

Get some buffs yourself and you'll even out the score, and maybe fight back next time?

[Nopkplease]

I think this problem can be fixed by removing base line resilience and put it back on pvp gear and buff pvp power.

I loved how the system was back in 5.1 when you have 40% base resil and PvP power was the way to gem. I also liked being able to upgrade the item lvl on your PvP gear. Upgraded PvP gear was on par with Heroic PvE gear then in a Wpvp setting.

I know that I'm the minority though and that this game caters to the PvE crowd. Obviously the PvE business model is working seeing that Blizz has been losing millions and millions of subs to games like LoL that are PvP games. I think the only reason why the PvP crowd is such a minority at this point is because Blizz pretty much ran the majority of the PvP crowd off.

[Molestron]

I loved how the system was back in 5.1 when you have 40% base resil and PvP power was the way to gem. I also liked being able to upgrade the item lvl on your PvP gear. Upgraded PvP gear was on par with Heroic PvE gear then in a Wpvp setting.

I know that I'm the minority though and that this game caters to the PvE crowd. Obviously the PvE business model is working seeing that Blizz has been losing millions and millions of subs to games like LoL that are PvP games. I think the only reason why the PvP crowd is such a minority at this point is because Blizz pretty much ran the majority of the PvP crowd off.

True, lol.

Aww, hell, there goes the pvp crowd. Nothing we can do about that, let's just focus on the dragon slayers from now on before they leave too.