Balance Questions

[Damerflinn]

Sorry if some of this has been covered, I did a search but a lot of them were really old threads, and I didn't want to necro something that old.

1. Is the solar opener something you ONLY do if you have the legendary meta? And is it really as good as it is touted? I watch a few different high level Balance streams and it seems like they each do it differently, some still do the Lunar opener, while some do solar.

2. At what number of adds is it better to multi dot and fish SS procs, verses using hurricane? Also I'm assuming that if you are going to hurricane, or the lunar version, that you want to be in an eclipse, so does that mean that if I am not in an eclipse and it's time to AoE that I need to push an eclipse first? I ask because with people being more geared now, it's almost pointless a lot of the time to bother AoE at all with Hurricane if I'm not already in an eclipse.

3. I'm having a hard time deciding when to use what talents, so I've just been simming each different set, and sticking with the one that gives the best overall damage. But I know that on some fights Treants are really good, specifically single target. An example is that in sims I'm seeing that Nature's vigil is hands down the best talent in that tier for my gear, at what point will HotW take over?

On the same topic, I get that the Treants scale with specific stats, and are best used when you have buffs of those kinds, but if you don't have those sorts of things for instance your trinkets don't give those procs, then the only buff left is Hero, which is once a fight, should I just keep from capping them at 3, and then pool 3 for CD's?

4. I saw something interesting when simming for stat values. For the most part I'm showing what is in all the guides, with haste > crit > mastery. But when I change the sim from single target to three or more (which is most of SoO) mastery is almost triple the value of the other two stats. Is this something I'm messing up in the sim profile, or should I change my reforge into mastery until I get more gear? I also thought that by now (itm lvl 517) that my secondary stats would start to at least gain ground on Int, but they are still way below int is this normal?

EDIT: Looking at the sim more carefully I see that is only using Hurricane as a source of AoE DPS not accounting for the idea of multi dotting and fishing SS procs. Could this be why it's showing such weird weights? Is there any way to change how it sims this?

[Auloria]

Since no one else has responded I'll take a stab at it, but I can probably stand to be corrected also. My group is by far mechanics limited, not dps limited. :P

1. My feeling is that if you have any Incarnation left over after CA with the Lunar opener you could be doing the Solar opener, assuming rppm trinkets. The Solar version is definitely better throughout the fight since you don't have to line it up perfectly, you can start the burst rotation any time the arrow points to lunar. Log a few fights doing it one way and the other and see which turns out better.

2. I'm kind of waffling on this right now; curious what others have to say. My take: If adds won't live long, I'll hurricane at 4+, no dots. If they will last more than a couple hurricanes, dot a few important adds and hurricane in between SS procs. As soon as a proc puts you out of eclipse single-target to the next one, hoping for procs along the way. If there's a "skull", keep NG uptime. If I'm not in eclipse to start, I'll usually single-target the "important" add to get there. Not sure what changes if you don't have a meta, though.

3. I would have thought you'd be choosing between DoC and HotW, not NV, at your gear. Since you don't have your meta, I would only really stress about saving the 3 treants for CA or hero. Betting on procs is much tougher. Talents really should be a fight-based decision. Don't underestimate the healing value of that last tier, either.

4. I haven't played much with simming, but the 10k haste/crit build is much more reliable in the real (often movement-heavy) world at your gear level. You're never going to just camp solar and spam hurricane for a fight.

[Conspiration]

Since no one else has responded I'll take a stab at it, but I can probably stand to be corrected also. My group is by far mechanics limited, not dps limited. :P

1. My feeling is that if you have any Incarnation left over after CA with the Lunar opener you could be doing the Solar opener, assuming rppm trinkets. The Solar version is definitely better throughout the fight since you don't have to line it up perfectly, you can start the burst rotation any time the arrow points to lunar. Log a few fights doing it one way and the other and see which turns out better.

2. I'm kind of waffling on this right now; curious what others have to say. My take: If adds won't live long, I'll hurricane at 4+, no dots. If they will last more than a couple hurricanes, dot a few important adds and hurricane in between SS procs. As soon as a proc puts you out of eclipse single-target to the next one, hoping for procs along the way. If there's a "skull", keep NG uptime. If I'm not in eclipse to start, I'll usually single-target the "important" add to get there. Not sure what changes if you don't have a meta, though.

3. I would have thought you'd be choosing between DoC and HotW, not NV, at your gear. Since you don't have your meta, I would only really stress about saving the 3 treants for CA or hero. Betting on procs is much tougher. Talents really should be a fight-based decision. Don't underestimate the healing value of that last tier, either.

4. I haven't played much with simming, but the 10k haste/crit build is much more reliable in the real (often movement-heavy) world at your gear level. You're never going to just camp solar and spam hurricane for a fight.

1. - Correct, mainly it's due the RPPM's from the 5.3 to 5.4 transition which I believe makes Solar the best opener, however, with bindings it is a bit of a bitch due to RNG cause of the 15% proc chance, but nevertheless, the Solar is far more superior than the Lunar once you have double RPPM's + LMG's as everything procs, you have the best usage of your cooldowns as you'll have both trinkets proccing, Jade Spirit, The Legendary Meta and also Nature's Grace, allowing maximum output. It's advised that you have the LMG when using the Solar Opener.

2. - It depends on your raid composition, what's required and also as you stated, how long the ads live. On Sha of Pride for example, I only use Hurricane as the ads die within seconds and melt like chocolate on a hot day. However, on Protectors, I use the eclipsed DoT only on the large ads during Sun's Desperate measures and I usually hurricane the ads only on Solar if they're clumped together, if they're not, I tend to dot a few up and just single target, though some may argue it's better to AoE the ads as the ads during that phase despite not being in Solar. In the end, it depends on what you have and what you need to do for maximum dps.

3. - I'd have to agree with him on this one. NV really isn't that desirable, though this may be different in 10M as I'm a bit unsure on what you're running and what's needed. However, in terms of DPS only, I'd say HotW is much more consistent in DPS and it also scales higher with gear. Once you're a bit more geared, you're honestly better off running Incarnation/HotW as it doesn't matter as much as everything melts and also the scaling of your gear. Though this is when you're approximately 550+ iLvl with 4P. Though this is my own personal opinion, I don't have any evidence to back me up on this.
In regards to the FoN, ideally, you want as many procs as you can with your treants, however, save your treants trying to wait for procs. If you're going to cap, and you have LMG/NG up, use one treant, I usually stagger my treants a bit until large procs occur then I just dump it with as many procs as possible. Though I only run FoN on Norushen and my knowledge and ability to use FoN to the max might not be the best.

4. - Crit is still the stronger value, but only by a bit. Sims will indicate that Mastery is stronger, however, this is all based on a perfect scenario, in a real situation, there's constant moving and other factors which will affect your DPS. I personally don't sim, so you're better off waiting for someone else for this reply. But this is just my 2cents.

Most of the questions that were simming related may be a bit off, I personally don't have much knowledge in regards to the theory aspect of boomkin, I'm just decent at playing the class sadly. Strange I know. Just rake up the information from others that will post soon. And just to make this clear, I raid in a 25M guild, I do understand 10 and 25M may be a bit different, so try not to take my word for everything. Though good luck in your adventures in the boomkin world.

[Deleted]

oki i am going to do a TL;DR

i believe i am an excellent boomkin and one of the best in my realm atleast, unsure world as i heard there are plenty of goods either but it's quite late so i will keep it short might edit for more information.

question 1

Solar opening, well yeah trinkets and meta gem does have stuff to say, but anyday everyday i would always go solar opener on aoe, simple because you get to burst from start of encounter then where on lunar you have to wait few , as you pop incarnation first and ca later on, where on solar you pop both at once.

question 2 hurricane is dps loss, i only use it in 2 different situations, dark shaman slims, and nazgrim start of encounter big trash, otherwise Nope multi dot all the time.

Question 3 : I am currently typing on mmo-champion but still Don't listen to anyone on mmo-champion just try to make your own head work for once, Yes DoC is better dps but thats when you have cut of your feet and you never have to bother moving, where heart of the wild is free 6% stat boost, and a LIFE SAVER CD for WHOLE YOUR RAID not you but WHOLE YOUR RAID. if you haven't downed Garrosh heroic i don't see why you should play around.

stick with incarnation + heart of the wild ,and if your raid goes into bad encounters always just use heart of the wild and tranquility and watch everyone have 100% hp in few secs.

all other talents are situational of playstyle pick w.e as long as you have those 2.

question 4

Mastery is an awesome stat as it increases your dmg when you hit eclipse so ofc it's a lot of stats/dps for be fair, i had max go for 43% unbuffed crit rating where you get +5 from buff and -3 % for fighting raid bosses, that would make you end up on 45 % crit rating where more then that just gets dumbed into mastery, and haste specifc you should have 10289 haste rating!. and ofc hit capped. more mastery the more dmg. but so is more crit! having more then 45% crit is seriously just waste. so try to be around 40-43%.


i hope that answered all.

[splosher]

Sorry if some of this has been covered, I did a search but a lot of them were really old threads, and I didn't want to necro something that old.

1. Is the solar opener something you ONLY do if you have the legendary meta? And is it really as good as it is touted? I watch a few different high level Balance streams and it seems like they each do it differently, some still do the Lunar opener, while some do solar.

2. At what number of adds is it better to multi dot and fish SS procs, verses using hurricane? Also I'm assuming that if you are going to hurricane, or the lunar version, that you want to be in an eclipse, so does that mean that if I am not in an eclipse and it's time to AoE that I need to push an eclipse first? I ask because with people being more geared now, it's almost pointless a lot of the time to bother AoE at all with Hurricane if I'm not already in an eclipse.

3. I'm having a hard time deciding when to use what talents, so I've just been simming each different set, and sticking with the one that gives the best overall damage. But I know that on some fights Treants are really good, specifically single target. An example is that in sims I'm seeing that Nature's vigil is hands down the best talent in that tier for my gear, at what point will HotW take over?

On the same topic, I get that the Treants scale with specific stats, and are best used when you have buffs of those kinds, but if you don't have those sorts of things for instance your trinkets don't give those procs, then the only buff left is Hero, which is once a fight, should I just keep from capping them at 3, and then pool 3 for CD's?

4. I saw something interesting when simming for stat values. For the most part I'm showing what is in all the guides, with haste > crit > mastery. But when I change the sim from single target to three or more (which is most of SoO) mastery is almost triple the value of the other two stats. Is this something I'm messing up in the sim profile, or should I change my reforge into mastery until I get more gear? I also thought that by now (itm lvl 517) that my secondary stats would start to at least gain ground on Int, but they are still way below int is this normal?

EDIT: Looking at the sim more carefully I see that is only using Hurricane as a source of AoE DPS not accounting for the idea of multi dotting and fishing SS procs. Could this be why it's showing such weird weights? Is there any way to change how it sims this?

1. Solar is extremely essential for multiple target fights like protectors, dark shaman, and galakras, etc. Outside of those fights it really doesn't matter which opener you do, but lunar is generally better if you are opening on a single target, but you will want to clip a bit of your lunar energy in order to dot with CA while every single proc is up. Sometimes you don't even have to clip, but if procs will fall off before you get to 0 energy then I'd advise clipping it to apply both dots with CA and all procs up.

2. It is something that many people have different views on. You will lose your NG buff if you hurricane for too long, so it will be harder to leave that eclipse and get to the next one. Generally I favor dotting over hurricane, but if the adds will die quickly then hurricane/astral storm is ok to use (sha of pride adds, immerseus adds, dark shaman adds). Things like bats on thok I find it isn't worth my while to hurricane. I dot each one with CA (about 8-9 adds) and spam SS into the boss. Other people do better aoe, and I get the boss much lower than if I had been aoeing (in a progression scenario I'd say aoe the bats to help the healers out).

3. Not sure about that nature's vigil over hotw thing, but I would have to say use HoTW because even if it is a small dps loss it is a survivability gain(tranq and stam), and easier to line up with procs than NV. There is 2 ways to gear. Some people go full potent gems to allow the opportunity to use treants. I use crafty gems (expertise/crit [the expertise turns to spellhit]). This causes you to gain more mastery over int on a 2:1 ratio by virtue of reforging away spirit to mastery. This is a dps increase on multiple targets hands down. On single target however this makes it so that you can't use treants because they are not affected by mastery, so it could be a dps loss, but I think it is a small one. In any case if you are using potent gems I'd say use treants on single target otherwise just use incarnation on everything.

4. My sim is showing mastery much lower than haste and crit on 3 targets, so this must be an item level thing, but I'd say stick with crit until you get there.

My wow-heroes: http://www.wow-heroes.com/character/us/Korgath/Splosh/
My armory: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...plosh/advanced

I may have typed something wrong or left something out, so if you have any more questions feel free to ask.