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  1. #41
    Immortal Zka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sam86 View Post
    who are ready to sell their souls for demon for right price care for any point u say u are wrong, only money move them
    Oh look, someone demonizing free market and corporations. How original and progressive.

  2. #42
    lol @ complaints about accessibiliity.

    OMG, they made the second floor more accessible! How can I feel epic running up the stairs now, when they installed a ramp for people in wheelchairs, babies in strollers, and those pricks who pass content at 20 mph on their bicycles. Blizz, plox remove bicycles.


    Wow, lookit that awesome dude, running up two steps at a time, wow.


  3. #43
    Deleted
    Look, from the perspective of vanilla raiders, TBC was more "casual". This doesn't invalidate any criticisms of the same type for MoP. I may not agree with them, but I don't get the insight you think this grants you at all, rather than a simplistic argument to validate your own beliefs. Relatively speaking, TBC was more "hardcore" than Wrath / MoP; just because people raised similar objections in the past about previous expansions doesn't mean that they weren't complaining about a long-term trend. People may want to return to TBC-esque content because it's more "hardcore" than MoP content - but that doesn't mean vanilla wasn't even more "hardcore".

    It's a spectrum guys. Their experience is just as valid and you have to root it in the context of the time.

    Personally, TBC wasn't my favourite expansion (I detested the high fantasy concepts) though it did have some superb content.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Snore View Post
    I hear how epics "meant something" in vanilla all the time. Maybe it did really early on. But mid-vanilla it certainly didn't. I joined a random raiding guild and got showered in epics from Molten Core when I was still really shit at the game, no effort at all.
    mid-vanilla MC was on farm. ofcourse you got showered with 'epics', nobody needed anything except bindings and maybe some rag loot. we would take alts on those runs and later on even pugs.

    anyway, i really felt bad about letting go of my AQ/naxx stuff because i've put so much work in it, they really did mean something ;p i had 0 issues replacing my TBC epics with wrath greens though.


  5. #45
    Deleted
    What's this supposed to mean. Many of this points are valid. I don't understand, is this supposed to be clever or something?

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Chrispotter View Post
    Well I guess wow was only good in vanilla then and TBC was the start of the " give everything to the casuals" philosophy.
    nope vanilla was also very casual. other mmo players called it the easy game.

    wow, since its inception, has been both praised and criticized for being the most casual game on the market.

    its people who never played another mmo before that think they were playing some "hardcore" game.
    "I was a normal baby for 30 seconds, then ninjas stole my mamma" - Deadpool
    "so what do we do?" "well jack, you stand there and say 'gee rocket raccoon I'm so glad you brought that Unfeasibly large cannon with you..' and i go like this BRAKKA BRAKKA BRAKKA" - Rocket Raccoon

    FC: 3437-3046-3552

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Algore View Post
    Back then casuals complained at the game for being inaccessible, catered to the upper bracket of players. Seems like they won - today we play Casuals of Warcraft.
    The President of Blizzard is a casual - that's all you need to know.

  8. #48
    The only things that ruins WoW are those dreaded other players! *wavesfist*

  9. #49
    Deleted
    This shows once again what we all know: People will always complain. About every expansion. It only gets worse and worse - and Blizzard is worse than everything the world has ever known!
    And yet a lot/most of them are still playing.

  10. #50
    Bloodsail Admiral Algore's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Immitis View Post
    nope vanilla was also very casual. other mmo players called it the easy game.

    wow, since its inception, has been both praised and criticized for being the most casual game on the market.

    its people who never played another mmo before that think they were playing some "hardcore" game.
    Yep. WoW is the most casual game on the market, and it has been so since its existence. It is one of the reasons to why a big portion of the Asia market has left WoW for other Asian MMOs.

  11. #51
    The internet was created for complaining. Stop acting so surprised that's what it's used for.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Algore View Post
    Yep. WoW is the most casual game on the market, and it has been so since its existence. It is one of the reasons to why a big portion of the Asia market has left WoW for other Asian MMOs.
    the majority of the people in china are leaving wow because age of wushu and lol are free to play
    "I was a normal baby for 30 seconds, then ninjas stole my mamma" - Deadpool
    "so what do we do?" "well jack, you stand there and say 'gee rocket raccoon I'm so glad you brought that Unfeasibly large cannon with you..' and i go like this BRAKKA BRAKKA BRAKKA" - Rocket Raccoon

    FC: 3437-3046-3552

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Immitis View Post
    nope vanilla was also very casual. other mmo players called it the easy game.

    wow, since its inception, has been both praised and criticized for being the most casual game on the market.

    its people who never played another mmo before that think they were playing some "hardcore" game.
    wow replaced the hardcore grind of everquest by adding huge amount of quests with rewards. AFAIR, it was a pretty new approach and yes, it was considered very casual then.

    endgame though was more alike, no? main difference i remember reading about was EQ raiding was mostly open world, while wow introduced heavy instancing, but it was still kinda hardcore in philosophy (allowing only the dedicated people to even see the content).


  14. #54
    Scarab Lord Lilija's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Algore View Post
    Back then casuals complained at the game for being inaccessible, catered to the upper bracket of players. Seems like they won - today we play Casuals of Warcraft.
    WoW catered to casuals from the day one! Hardcore players have never been more than 1% of whole WoW playerbase.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Immitis View Post
    nope vanilla was also very casual. other mmo players called it the easy game.

    wow, since its inception, has been both praised and criticized for being the most casual game on the market.

    its people who never played another mmo before that think they were playing some "hardcore" game.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lilija View Post
    WoW catered to casuals from the day one! Hardcore players have never been more than 1% of whole WoW playerbase.
    Hi, thanks for giving me an occasion to repeat something about that :

    Though I'd like to point, the main reason we see the same complaints now and then, has less to do with "things are the same" (because they certainly aren't) and all to do about how the expectations and criteria have changed enormously.
    Typical example : people defending how it's easy to level up now by saying that at release WoW was already mocked by how easy it was to level up ; it's technically true, but only in context, simply because what was considered easy back then would be considered downright hardcore today.

    To sum it up : it's not because you see the same complaints that the situation is the same. Evolving standards and all.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Akka View Post
    It's not that surprising, it simply reflect population shift - there is FAR more people who have played WoW and stopped than people still playing WoW.
    WotLK design paragdim has hold true since years, so most people who hated it simply stopped playing after a while, and most people still playing today are the ones who actually liked WotLK design.
    That's kind of funny, since I still play but hated WotLK. I hated it for reasons that don't really hold true to the game's design today though, rather than how accessible it was.

  17. #57
    Scarab Lord Lilija's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Akka View Post
    Hi, thanks for giving me an occasion to repeat something about that :

    Though I'd like to point, the main reason we see the same complaints now and then, has less to do with "things are the same" (because they certainly aren't) and all to do about how the expectations and criteria have changed enormously.
    Typical example : people defending how it's easy to level up now by saying that at release WoW was already mocked by how easy it was to level up ; it's technically true, but only in context, simply because what was considered easy back then would be considered downright hardcore today.

    To sum it up : it's not because you see the same complaints that the situation is the same. Evolving standards and all.
    But WoW was not harder back then. I say from a perspective of someone who has been there. People who claim that it was harder or more hardcore don't really know what those words mean. It took more time. It was not a bigger challenge. In fact it was no challenge at all if you compare it to what challenges we have now. Yet people ignore the challenges nowadays and only focus on Blizzard adding more accessible content. Yet the hard (in fact harder with each expantion) content is still pretty much here. This 1% that is doing it never complains about how good old days were more challenging because they know well enough it wasn't. It's the people who don't really understand the whole concept of challenge and hardcore gameplay that keep complaining thruout all expantions.

  18. #58
    I agree with many of those points, BC still had enough going for it to be fun despite them though.

  19. #59
    Mechagnome Dooney's Avatar
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    What you call complaining, could just be categorized as "discussion?"
    -I lost 6 million of my best friends because of Cataclysm. I will NEVER forgive Blizz for that.
    -There ain't enough tequila in the universe to forget the insanity I experienced with Mists of Pandaria.

  20. #60
    It's simple perception bias.

    Long story short: People that are still around playing the game tend to remember past expansions more fondly than how they felt about it when they were playing them, since it's in the past and the problems are now irrelevant; tend to talk more about the problems of the current one than the good parts, because if you're happy with something, you do it rather than talk about it; and tend to see the worst in future ones because they worry about changes to the parts they do like and lack of action on the parts they don't, when they feel they're still in a position to do something about those things.

    View all commentary about expansions through that lens, and the world makes much more sense.

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