30% Siege of Orgrimmar nerf

[owbu]

caps valors every week

hey it looks like we have a time factor!
now if only upgrades would give you more power...

[Raelbo]

Maybe he is "casual" and defines anyone who caps valors every week "hardcore"

One doesn't have to be hardcore to cap valor every week. But I daresay there are a lot of casuals who don't.

[Szemere]

They have happily learned. I hope.

DS nerfs came way too quick and frequently, and the Firelands nerfs were way too drastic. + all these nerfs were flat across-the-board nerfs that could make you ignore some mechanics at some point in time, which was awful. Better would be targeted nerfs to something that is considered very hard by those having trouble progressing after a decent amount of time has passed.

[thatguy181]

I'm sure it will come, but right now it's probably still too early. SoO is still relatively new for most people not in hardcore guilds.

[TJ]

I hope so, first expac that I haven't been in a guild clearing end game content. Trying to pug stuff is a motive for suicide these days...

[Deleted]

Maybe he is "casual" and defines anyone who caps valors every week "hardcore"

If he's a casual I highly doubt he will have two items to upgrad each week.
If you clear SoO each week, you will get 560 valor points which is enough if you're not extremely lucky.

[Notdev]

If you aren't clearing Siege every week, 9 heroic scenarios will cap you and take 90 minutes tops in a guild group.
If you are clearing Siege on one difficulty, that + 4 heroic scenarios can cap you.
Really is no excuse not to cap unless you just don't care, which actually is a valid excuse for some.

[Aphrel]

ITs called gear upgrade. that combined with placing all the "easy" heroic bosses in the start works geat to get guilds slowly progressing. I rly dont se the need for a zonewide nerf. Already now it feels like we are bypassing mechanics, even on garrosh hc were getting throu p3 with only 1 whirl and only spawning one ironstar in p4.
IF they added a 30% zonebuff the encounters whould feel broken.

[Jurik]

At some point, a majority of guilds will reach the point of brick-walling on a boss and stop progressing. At this point it's in Blizz's best interest to gently nerf the content so that people will have a reason to keep their subscriptions active.

As it is, 10 man HC US progression is very slow now at the top end. Only 1 or 2 new H.Garrosh kills each week. 8 new Paragon kills this week. ~10 new Siegecrafter kills. ~27 new Thoks. I think most are, at this point, approaching BiS (and even the non-BiS slots we usually have a strong piece already) -- just a few more trinkets, heroic weapons, and then we're just grinding for the low chance at warforging. I am guessing that by end of January (another ~9 weeks, we are currently on week 11 of SoO) people will have reached that point, and Blizz will consider slight nerfs to keep people paying their subscriptions until WoD hits.

Ed: also, for the people that say item upgrading will help, I think pretty much everyone in my 10-man raid upgrades items instantly. I've never had less than 1500 valor available this patch, and I am starting to upgrade offspec items for dailies/farming/etc. At 500 valor per slot, the pace of gearing doesn't outweigh the valor income unless you're actively maintaining 2 completely separate sets.

This may not be true for 25 man where gearing is faster, and warforged drops are common (meaning you might upgrade a single slot 4 times as you get "slightly better" version of your drop)

[Deleted]

I'm pretty sure every guild who has hit a brick wall has a majority of their gear fully upgraded. 500 valor per piece (assuming you get less than 3 upgrade per week unless you have crazy good RNG) means you stay upgraded.

[Ilfayt]

I'm wondering if the presence of LFR is decreasing the need for it... Think of it this way, most guilds will at least be able to clear a large part of the content 'eventually' without buffs. Now I know not all will(hell, there may be a large part of them that won't), but with the 'sightseeing' of the raid being filled in by LFR, it's mostly progression/gearing, which on this end of the expansion, isn't all too rewarding for a lot of people.

I don't think that's 'why', but it may be a factor into why it's not happened yet or been announced. I mean, compare the '30% buff' from ICC and some other tiers to the ones they've applied so far this expansion, and they seem miniscule(isn't Mogu'shan just a small debuff to enemy damage?). It's likely they may be phasing the idea out, OR we'll just see another even smaller buff for players, but I doubt we'll see a 30% one.

[Ryme]

With LFR, Flex and Normal modes, nerfs aren't really needed now.

[Oratory]

Flex difficulty essentially is a 30+% nerf of normal so there is no need to nerf anything.

[Sobura]

If a nerf is coming, I hope it is after I finish Heroic Paragons and Garrosh. Make it easier to farm the content, not beat it in the first place.

[weedburst]

It will probably come with 6.0. That being said I heavily disagree with the logic of item upgrades nerfing the content - this was 100% true in previous MoP tiers, but in this particular tier item upgrades were available straight off the bat.

To give an example, the first recorded kill of Heroic Garrosh happened with a 569~ ilvl***. By comparison, the max ilvl you'll ever be able to get in this patch is around 581, so it's around 10 higher~.

Lei Shen happened with 525 ilvl - the max item level attainable in the previous patch was 551~ (549 without legendary cloak). That's 25 item levels higher. Legendary metagems (followed, later on, by cloaks) also made their appearance after the kill of Lei Shen and is another hidden character power boost.
(Ra-den happened with 531 ilvl, but it's a fight that only died later cause of limited attempts, so w/e.)

I don't think there's a lot of margin to progress from our current point. Most people already have 2/2 upgrades on everything (regardless of it being BiS or not), and the content was tuned with these upgrades in mind already. Similarly, the legendary cloak was already accounted for during tuning and no group defeated Garrosh without it, since it was available from the start. There will be no hidden character power boost from legendaries similar to the legendary metagem or the legendary cloaks during ToT.

all considered it really wouldn't surprise me to see either
1) a nerf at 6.0
2) possible small nerfs here and there before that

I don't particularly care either way though. Harder content to solo, please! D:


*** yes wowprogress says 566.65 but Infeh was wearing PvP gear on the armory, so do the math by adding 70 ilvl to his gear

i agree with what you're saying, but gear scales at a crazy rate in SoO compared to before which is the main reason we are having an item squish. the ilvl gap difference seems huge but the overall gain from those 10 ilvl is pretty close to the 25 ilvl gain from the past even with the legendary items.

i'm a fan of how this content has been "nerfed" with gear and i hope they continue doing this. it draws a clear line in the sand in terms of skill and doesn't hand out heroic gear to the people for clearing what equates to slightly buffed normal fights. i also hope the same difficulty remains for 6.0. heroic boa's and garrosh mounts need to be earned, not handed out. the game at the heroic level is about competition, not about everyone getting their blue ribbon.

[Oratory]

Blizz never said it explicitly but it was implied or at least I understood it that there would be no nerf because the new Flex difficulty removes the need for it.

[Deleted]

Item upgrades aren't nerfs. They're just gear enchants.
Any member of my group instantly 2/2's any gear they loot.
We're hard-capped on Valor since like December.

But we got 4 difficulty levels now. I don't think that nerfs are necessary. Targeted nerfs to overpowered shit that used to cause 10 vs 25 imbalance (lack of resources etc) are good but blanket 30% for all difficulties is overkill.

If I can't kill something on heroic, i just kill it on normal. If other player can't kill normal, he joins a flex. There must be some hard content left in this game. Most of the game is easy, composing or more or less time consuming tasks, but otherwise not posing a significant challenge. Heroic modes are one of the few places where you face actual challenge, not just repetitive grind lasting X amount of time. Making 5 million gold for my TCG collection wasn't hard. It was tedious and time consuming. Heroic progression isn't like making gold or grinding shaohao rep.

[jimlow]

If you want a 30% nerfed Normal SOO... run Flex.

I can't I don't have a 560 ilevel