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  1. #141
    Posts like this is why Blizzard needs to break recount.....

  2. #142
    Yeah, better break recount else shit players will get their feelings hurt and lose their raid spots!

  3. #143
    Quote Originally Posted by Fluttershy View Post
    Yeah, better break recount else shit players will get their feelings hurt and lose their raid spots!
    Oh the humanity

  4. #144
    Pit Lord Anzen's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    ITT: People saying the role they play is key to progression.

    I'd have to disagree with the sentiment that healers are key though. When delving into heroic modes, a lot of the normal/heal-able mechanics simply become one shots or at least close to; because neither an extremely skilled, or an extremely bad or an extremely geared/undergeared healer couldn't prevent someone dying to it, the emphasis on mitigating raid damage is set on a personal level.

    Whilst there is an unpreventable ceiling of healing that needs to be done to kill said boss, this damage is for the vast part minor and should all preventable damage be avoided, easily healed.

    There's a reason guilds gear healers last.
    Last edited by Anzen; 2013-12-04 at 10:03 AM.

  5. #145
    Mechagnome Fur Play's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Cardiff, South Wales.
    Not a lot of skill in 25man healing though is there?

    This is why smart/aoe heals are a thing, if you actually had to make calculated decisions on who to heal, people would be dead a lot more.

    So no, I don't believe healers are key. Good players are. Good players will self heal and use defensive cooldowns when they matter.

  6. #146
    Herald of the Titans xebtria's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Bloody ol' Germany
    Bring the class, not the player.

    Blizzard is exceptionally successful at this task.
    Player skill still matters, but average player with class X still might be a better choice than great player with class Y.

  7. #147
    Healer/Tank/DPS it doesnt matter. Having good players in all of them are vital to progression.

    Take one away and the other two fall over. Like a tripod.

  8. #148
    Quote Originally Posted by Nekovivie View Post
    Healer/Tank/DPS it doesnt matter. Having good players in all of them are vital to progression.

    Take one away and the other two fall over. Like a tripod.
    - Not so much with DPS ... especially in a 25 man raid

    - The introduction of Active Mitigation made the difference between good tanks and bad tanks astronomical (coming from a healer perspective); so I would say they are the most vital.

    - Healers have been more or less equally vital throughout every expansion and that's not going to change (maybe less so in Wotlk and MoP due to the lack of mana constraints).

  9. #149
    DPS is the hardest role to play on progression.
    Quote Originally Posted by Coppas View Post
    This is a needed change IMO pallies have been sadly lacking this xpac and now at least they will be able to compete with other healers.

  10. #150
    Not sure if it matters what the hardest role is but everyone has their role and is important and contributes differently. Having insanely good dps makes everyone's job easier. Tanks have to use less cooldowns to stay alive when adds die faster, healers use less mana because fights are so much shorter, there's less people to heal if they're all good at avoiding fire. Tanks that proactively use their cooldowns to stay easier to heal let the healers spread healing around more to prevent raid deaths.

  11. #151
    IMO, the most important person is the raid leader. A raid leader can make/break progression.

    In terms of tank/heal/dps importantance, I think it's heal -> dps -> tank. The main reason why heal is first is because good healers allow you to use less healers and this means tons more dps. This dps gain is usually big enough to make a very noticeable difference. DPS being 2nd is because boss dying faster and raid taking less dmg (you have most dps and if all dps can dodge avoidable things then raid dmg taken goes down a lot) means you can use less healers and put in more dps. Tank being last because the current tank mechanics are so simple so as long as tanks do the swaps correctly then they are solid.

    Gearing wise, I think it's tank -> dps -> heal because tank's damage taken are unavoidable so the more gears they get, the less panic modes you would have. DPS being 2nd because higher dps means shorter fights and in turn = less raid damage overall. Heal being last because healers benefit from gears less than dps since better geared healer only mean the raid can take more damage (a better solution is to ask people to dodge avoidable things). Also, from my personal experience, I find it unlikely that geared healers will be able to carry a bunch of dps standing in fire through heroic mode. So giving healers more gear isn't really that helpful.
    their moving their table over their
    they're moving they're table over they're
    there moving there table over there

  12. #152
    Quote Originally Posted by jtstormrage View Post
    It entirely depends on the fight. Some fights are massive dps checks. Some are healer output checks. Some require great tanking.
    Agree. I find it unusual that we are making sweeping generalizations like this without any specific context. It will always depend on a the fight, and if you are wanting someone to validate your opinion on a specific encounter you could post logs to receive feedback on them.

  13. #153
    There's a reason why Method geared out their DPS first over their tanks and healers. Fire for Mythic Raiding
    <Side Project> - Eonar/Velen 7/7 Mythic Highmaul 5/10 Mythic Blackrock Foundry

  14. #154
    Quote Originally Posted by blueobelisk View Post
    tanks trump all. Sort of.

    Id say it's based on encounter. You should say which realm you're on so i can stalk your logs and see exactly how much better your dps is than the other raid and how accurately you're judging it.
    let me judge you.

  15. #155
    If you are undergeared, Dps > Healers > Tanks.

    If you are slightly overgeared, it's just about staying alive, so it puts a bit more back at the healers, but still, if you die on a progress fight, 95% of the chance, it was YOUR fault, not the healer's, so yeah.

    Basically, you don't ppl to pull amazing numbers, but you do NEED ppl to stay alive, both Dps AND Healers.

    There's a reason why Method geared out their DPS first over their tanks and healers.
    Also, this.

    Having a problem with a fight? Get more Dps. The best way to make a hard fight easier.
    Last edited by ThrashMetalFtw; 2013-12-05 at 11:28 PM.
    They're (short for They are) describes a group of people. "They're/They are a nice bunch of guys." Their indicates that something belongs/is related to a group of people. "Their car was all out of fuel." There refers to a location. "Let's set up camp over there." There is also no such thing as "could/should OF". The correct way is: Could/should'VE, or could/should HAVE.
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