hell no, keep them out.
Because spamming /1 General "LFM Ring of Blood" was soooo much fun!
Fact is people are selfish and eventually nobody who has past these quests will want to help anyone else do these quests when they hit level cap and have better things to do.
WoW characters that need/deserve to get killed/punished/otherwise removed from the story: Tirion(dead now), Thrall, Malfurion, Sylvanas(soon?), Jaina, Tyrande
No, instances, scenarios, raids, pvp, ect should be the required group quests.
If anything, open world raid bosses should be the extent of it in the "world."
By the way, its not like group quests ever added anything to the game. I know leveling my characters in Vanilla Redridge, it most certainly wasn't a super pain in the ass to do the elite group quest to kill that Gnoll. It definitely wasn't an exercise in just sitting in town, spamming /1 for groups.
Nope. It was super fun and engaging!
/sarcasm
Last edited by KrazyK923; 2013-11-28 at 12:22 PM.
The big problem with group quests in the past were inadequate (read: non-existent) group finding tools in the game. The only option for finding groups was to spam Trade (or LookingForGroup, when that was a thing) for hours, usually unsuccessfully, or begging guildies for help. A crossrealm group finding tool such as the one planned for WoD, if it is done right, could be the magic bullet for making group quests viable.
There is a case study to examine here: oQueue and Open Raid make a world of difference for A Change of Command, the group portion of the Legendary quest. The first time I did this quest, before I got into oQ/OR, it took actually a couple weeks before I finally got a group together, and that involved a lot of spamming trade, begging guildies, planning for Day X Time Y and cancelling because of no-shows, and on and on. Doing it with alts, after having discovered oQueue, getting a group took 10 minutes tops with no special effort.
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Those Redridge Elite quests are where I learned that rolling "Need" on cloth as a warrior because I didn't want to be "Greedy" is doing it wrong. One of my earliest memories of WoW. I remember wiping on the named there and then a level 27 joining our group and me being in awe at how powerful he was and how awesome it was to have a level 27 in the group. Anyway, the point being group quests have their time and place, and they could again if players had adequate ways to find groups for them.
Oh, and that group quest in Wetlands... that's where my warrior first heard of the concept of tanking. I was asked to tank the elite, to which I responded: "what's tanking?" The priest ended up tanking it. I spent hours on Alakhazam after that trying to learn about my class and about tanking.
I also had a very fun time and fond memories of doing the BC group quests with a group of some of the server's first 70's. Your mileage may vary.
OH yeah, then there's Wrath. I leveled nearly a dozen 80s when Wrath was current and I usually got groups for those elite quests in Dragonblight, and the few others sprinkled throughout other zones - Grizzly Hills, Zul'drak. When I did, it was a nice bonus and a good experience. When I didn't, no big deal. I think the key is to go with the Dragonblight model, where elite/group quests are sidequests and bonuses, not the capstone to the entire zone. You want to be able to look for groups and have opportunities to form groups while you're working through a zone, not when you are completely done with the zone save for 2 or 3 capstone elite quests.
Last edited by hablix; 2013-11-28 at 12:42 PM.
I don't mind group quests as long as they aren't required to get the next set of quests.
I think the false assumption here is that the elite quests were what caused you to...learn to play? I'm not sure what they can't do with regular quests that they can with elite quests. Elite quests do nothing but force people together to do a piece of content that isn't end-level. It might sound nice when it first comes out, but I remember trying to level alts during Wrath where finding people to do things in Vanilla was a nightmare. Hell, it was a nightmare during Vanilla itself.Those Redridge Elite quests are where I learned that rolling "Need" on cloth as a warrior because I didn't want to be "Greedy" is doing it wrong. One of my earliest memories of WoW. I remember wiping on the named there and then a level 27 joining our group and me being in awe at how powerful he was and how awesome it was to have a level 27 in the group. Anyway, the point being group quests have their time and place, and they could again if players had adequate ways to find groups for them.
Oh, and that group quest in Wetlands... that's where my warrior first heard of the concept of tanking. I was asked to tank the elite, to which I responded: "what's tanking?" The priest ended up tanking it. I spent hours on Alakhazam after that trying to learn about my class and about tanking.
I also had a very fun time and fond memories of doing the BC group quests with a group of some of the server's first 70's. Your mileage may vary.
OH yeah, then there's Wrath. I leveled nearly a dozen 80s when Wrath was current and I usually got groups for those elite quests in Dragonblight, and the few others sprinkled throughout other zones - Grizzly Hills, Zul'drak. When I did, it was a nice bonus and a good experience. When I didn't, no big deal. I think the key is to go with the Dragonblight model, where elite/group quests are sidequests and bonuses, not the capstone to the entire zone. You want to be able to look for groups and have opportunities to form groups while you're working through a zone, not when you are completely done with the zone save for 2 or 3 capstone elite quests.
The very fact that you had to get a level 27 for that Redridge quest to beat it shows the failure of group quests. Why even have them if you just end up having a friend or a random high level, which the mob is grey to, to come in and kill it?
No. No you really don't. You've failed as a developer when you have people sitting there doing nothing and spamming your chat channel for help with a quest that you cannot solo. I am entirely out the game experience at that point. Doing absolutely nothing but waiting for somebody else to get to that point as they quest to help. You can say "You want to be able to look for groups throughout the zone," but a lot of those quests weren't even available until you've completed the majority of that hub. Dragonblight, I would say, is an exception to the rule, but only with a few elite quests.You want to be able to look for groups and have opportunities to form groups while you're working through a zone, not when you are completely done with the zone save for 2 or 3 capstone elite quests.
Its the same argument for the removal of LFD. What it does is cause people to stop actually playing the game and sit there hoping somebody else will come along and join with them. At that point I am not playing WoW. I'm copy/pasting a "LF" message every minute or so while I watch Youtube hoping someone else comes along.
That isn't to say I personally don't have stories where it worked out either, but you don't want to develop a system where its optimal if things happen to fall the right way for people. You want to develop a system where even if things go the exact opposite way that you want where people can still relatively play uninterrupted.
And before the inevitable charge is thrown at me, let me finish by saying I only feel this way about questing in the world. Dungeons, Scenarios, and Raids were always billed as group-content from the very alpha of the original game. Group Quests sound like a good idea in premise, but it fails far more in practice than it succeeds for it to be worth it. Even in other games. My biggest gripe in SWTOR (Before they ruined the game with their f2p system) was the reintroduction of group/elite quests.
Last edited by KrazyK923; 2013-11-28 at 12:58 PM.
When he says mandatory and gives no context then I'll deal with it at face value. And even if he says "mandatory to finish quest line", I'll deal on a level of "mandatory to progress in game". Besides, that point is easily solved by having solo quest lines separate from quest lines that would be entirely group centric.
Modern gaming apologist: I once tasted diarrhea so shit is fine.
"People who alter or destroy works of art and our cultural heritage for profit or as an excercise of power, are barbarians" - George Lucas 1988
Seems you are willing to defend your opinion to death...
Sure I'll admit, it wasn't mandatory. Even questing isn't mandatory. Why not grind all the way to max lvl, because questing isn't mandatory?! So if questing isn't mandatory, group quests were also never mandatory. Yeah, you were right I guess...
But....if you wanted to achieve a certain goal like: get that last tank piece or if wanted to enter a dungeon/raid (attunement quest for example), you had to do some quests. And some of these quests were group quests. So if you wanted to achieve your goal, the group quest was mandatory.
I certainly hope they reïntroduce them.
And that they also make an offline version of WoW, so that all those loners can go there and stop destroying the MMO feel.
That's just stupid extreme-stand to take. All I ever said that group quests weren't mandatory to progress in the game during leveling and it's absolutely correct, no one can dispute that. Your whole retarded comment of"Well if group quests mandatory well then quests aren't mandatory and you could farm XP!!" while true, is not relevant to the discussion of group quests AND reeks of the typical political talk of "lets swing the pendulum so far to a certain direction that the former moderate position seems like the opposite now"
Modern gaming apologist: I once tasted diarrhea so shit is fine.
"People who alter or destroy works of art and our cultural heritage for profit or as an excercise of power, are barbarians" - George Lucas 1988
Please bring them back, especially to the early levels (mainly 1-60). Group quests introduce the newbie to co-operation and interaction with other players that they will eventually learn when they hop into their first dungeon/raid. I like that idea that the rares of the Isle of Thunder and Warbringers employ-the more people attacking them, the health will increase, so it poses that challegne that the game lacks in places because part of it was removed for the Cataclysm re-vamp.
Isn't it ironic how education is important, yet people forget all about it when they visit the internet?
i wouldn't mind some group quests. but if they'd do it, i'd want them to make it so you're not punished for grouping. no reduced xp, all quest items shared, stuff like that.
You should probably train on your sarcasm.
I left the latter part out because the discussion so far has obviously been about leveling experience, not end game. In any case, what attunements were out-door group quests? Was there ever any, because I only remember instance quests.
Modern gaming apologist: I once tasted diarrhea so shit is fine.
"People who alter or destroy works of art and our cultural heritage for profit or as an excercise of power, are barbarians" - George Lucas 1988
Group quests never left, they just got put inside instances and made repeatable... and renamed to "scenarios". They even made the group quests available with heroic mode!
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Modern gaming apologist: I once tasted diarrhea so shit is fine.
"People who alter or destroy works of art and our cultural heritage for profit or as an excercise of power, are barbarians" - George Lucas 1988