Was Ghostcrawler fired/forced out?

[Prag]

He was there for a significant rise and a significant fall in subscribers. If they felt he was to blame, they wouldn't have waited this long, they'd have replaced him in Cata when the downward trend began.

[ComputerNerd]

well the sub numbers have been getting incredibly low under his reign

It was not his "reign" or anything of the sort.
He was not the only person responsible for those decisions, just the one who gave enough of a damn to try and communicate with us.
And look what that got him, a load of abuse from arrogant and stupid players.

He started the ball rolling in terms of how blizzard communicate future plans, something we saw next to nothing of prior to that.

Just a load of nonsense spewed from players upset that their personal demands or expectations were not met, and so choose to blame the most public face amongst the developers rather than taking a look closer to home.

[Speedlance]

Of course he wasn't fired, because of GC this game is actually playable, he did as good as possibly with the tools he had. Rember it's chilton who is the main guy and is one of the people who says yes and no, I think he has to go as well because without GC, Chiltons logic will become more visible and you will be able to buy epics for 10$ from the store.

[Deleted]

Decisions like this are made way in advance. He was probably given an offer months ago and things take time to put into motion and finalize. Ghostcrawler wouldn't have been one of the leaders of the Blizzcon discussions, both on and off stage, if he were on such bad terms with Blizzard. The guy has paid his dues but there's simply no room for career advancement at his position unless Tom Chilton stepped down; his immediate boss. Someone probably gave him an offer to move up the ladder with another company and he took it and given his comments about "likely not being hard to find" and "staying in the industry" suggests that as well.

Blizzard is a company with a lot of career advancement opportunity if starting at the bottom but he was at a point where no amount of years at the company would let him go any higher unless some of their "lifers" died or left the company which were both unlikely to happen anytime soon. He could stay at Blizzard and do the same job or he could take a senior development position at someone like Riot Games.

I find it depressing how many people truly think it was Ghostcrawler who ruined the game. He gets blame for
-PvP: Hollinka's team and before him, Chilton had a specific team who did the bulk of the legwork here even as the lead game designer
-Dungeons and raids: This used to be J. Allen Brack's team up up until the reins were handed to Ion Hazzikostas and they settled on a rigid team.
-Lore/Quest: This was a joint effort between Metzen to write it, Dave Kosak to implement it, and Cory Stockton to polish it.
-"Fluff" content: Things like pet battles and the new garrisons are a Cory Stockton area
-World design: This is Alex Afrasiabi's area. The no flying debacle is on him as well.

The main things Ghostcrawler did were dungeon finder/LFR, transmogrification, badge/point loot, itemization, and class balance. Of course classes became more homogenized over time but it was largely 10H raiding that forced them to do so to ensure that all classes could be brought. Class balance in particular is better than it's ever been.

Ghostcrawler was simply another name on the team under Chilton with his own specific area no different than the others I mentioned above. But because Ghostcrawler was the one to come to the forums and was willing to discuss issues and explain changes made by the WoW team as a whole, he got a lot of hate directed at him and a lot of people overestimating his power on the team. If people are unhappy, they should be directing their anger at Tom Chilton as the game's director and lead game designer; the manager of the entire WoW team. Or even a step farther, Rob Pardo who's the VP of game design over all Blizzard games. But it's easier to blame Ghostcrawler as he's the most easily accessible member of the team through his active Twitter feed.

Blaming people for unhappiness is fine but people at least need to blame the right people.

QFT!

Nothing more to add. Case closed.

[RoKPaNda]

World of Warcraft will be long dead by the time Ghostcrawler releases his new game. I kinda feel sorry for the guy/gal that will replace him at Blizzard.

Only if he works for Blizzard as it takes them a decade to make a sequel. Even then I doubt a decade from now WoW will be completely dead. It will have very few players, but I doubt it will be "long dead." Just look at EQ.

[Synstir]

Is there a bigger challenge than wow out there? or Titan even? GC could have joined the titan team as well if he was looking for a new challenge after 6 years of wow, right?

[Deleted]

He simply got another job offer, nothing more to it! Happy though.

[Mikael123]

He most likely just got a job opportunity he wanted to take. I bet he has received many. 6 years in the same company is actually relatively long.

[Synstir]

He most likely just got a job opportunity he wanted to take. I bet he has received many. 6 years in the same company is actually relatively long.

I am now 13 years with the same company.... how is 6 years too long?

[Deleted]

As far as i know, a big company would not leave a head figure to go away just before they are about to launch a big product (d3 expansion, wow expansion) and im inclined to say he quit for something better.

[Mirishka]

Do you think that perhaps GC was fired or forced to 'resign'?

He left because of a new career opportunity that he said he simply couldn't resist. This happens ALL the time in the game industry: top people have left Bioware, Bungie, Sony, Microsoft, and countless others - even Miyamoto-san of Nintendo has said that he is effectly demoting himself to advisor because he wants to work on smaller, simpler games and ideas. So we've probably seen the last 'huge 3d' Nintendo game directed by him.

Tinfoil hat types might want to believe that GC was forced out because of subs dropping, but those are generally the idiots who think that he alone makes changes to the games - and therefore have no idea what the hell they're talking about.

Lower subs or not, at over 7 million subs WoW still stomps the absolute hell out of every other MMO - Conan, Rift, Tera and even the mighty Star Wars: TOR developed by Bioware (who is a legendary game dev company). That game was basically groomed to 'take out' WoW (EA said bluntly that their goal with the game was knocking WoW out of the #1 MMO position) and it failed spectacularly in its goal. Every time these games are announced you guys are like OMG WOW KILLER INCOMING and unsurprisingly, you're dead wrong.

Bottom line is this: whether you like GC or not, no matter how laughably clueless you are about what his job was or how it actually worked (coughteamcough), no other subscription MMO has come within a thousand miles of WoW's success and relevance, and its unlikely that another ever will.

GC had a hand in that success he was one moving part of many. If you seriously think he sat around all day just making the game the way he wants it, for the classes he plays, I am embarrassed for your parents.

[flaps]

nope, he rode the success and drove the subs lower.

http://www.statista.com/statistics/2...rs-by-quarter/

Oh yea im sorry that Greg was hired in '08 and got wow to the highest number of subs during wrath on '10

[Bullettime]

Is there a bigger challenge than wow out there? or Titan even? GC could have joined the titan team as well if he was looking for a new challenge after 6 years of wow, right?

Ghostcrawler could have gotten a dream job as a higher up dev on a new Age of Empires, the game franchise he credits for getting him into gaming. He could gotten a senior position at Riot Games who has been on a massive hiring spree to expand their LoL team and to hire for future games and has seen an incredible rise to the top of gaming in a short time.

All we know is that he isn't leaving the industry, he's leaving Blizzard so that rules out Titan, "likely won't be that hard to find," and likely won't be on an upcoming MMO team given an almost guaranteed no compete clause for X years on his contract given how much he knows about the tentative WoW development plan a couple years in advance.

If he stays in the gaming industry, which he said he was, he's more likely to go to a MOBA or to an RTS. Two other areas of his interests without being a massive change from WoW (going fantasy RPG to a shooter for example) and would be areas he would contractually be able to work for. As much as I would love to see his name attached to something like WildStar and it be successful, doubt we'll see Greg on an MMO project for a while, if ever again.

I am now 13 years with the same company.... how is 6 years too long?

In game development, the turnover rate is pretty high. People bounce to other more lucrative positions as they appear or will take off for other projects to expand the types of games they have under their belt which is better for their longterm careers. Greg did WoW for 6 years and could bounce to say something like Riot Games (League of Legends) and put 4 into MOBAs as well and could translate the 10 year combined experience with two successful companies and games into an even bigger position down the pipeline. You'll see many of the popular game studios trade people around on a regular basis because of that.

[Mirishka]

I am now 13 years with the same company.... how is 6 years too long?

He didn't say too long? He said it was long, as in a long time, which it is. A long time =/= too long.

[Synstir]

He left because of a new career opportunity that he said he simply couldn't resist.

Tinfoil hat types might want to believe that he was forced out because of subs dropping, but those are generally the idiots who think that GC alone makes changes to the games and therefore have no idea what the hell they're talking about.

Lower subs or not, at over 7 million subs WoW still stomps the absolute hell out of every other MMO - Conan, Rift, Tera and even the mighty Star Wars: TOR developed by Bioware (who is a legendary game dev company). That game was basically groomed to 'take out' WoW (EA said bluntly that their goal with the game was knocking WoW out of the #1 MMO position) and it failed spectacularly in its goal.

Bottom line is this: whether you like GC or not, no matter how laughably clueless you are about what his job was or how it actually worked (coughteamcough), no other subscription MMO has come within a thousand miles of WoW's success and relevance, and its unlikely that another ever will.

GC had a hand in that success he was one moving part of many. If you seriously think he sat around all day just making the game the way he wants it, for the classes he plays, I am embarrassed for your parents.

I am managing 3 teams in my irl job and in the end I am responsible for the direction the teams are moving in and also the results the team is booking.
That is part of my role as manager. I one of my teams get lower financial results in a year, I will be talked to as I am held responsible.
i will get a goal like, meeting expactations or even exeeding them the next year. If I don't make those, I will have to explain and believe me, nobody will listen to my "it is a team effort, i didn't do it alone". I will be blamed. If I don't succeed with reasonable reasons, I won't get a third chance, for that profit is too important.

While I do believe GC is not the only person to decide things on wow and we can't blame him as a person, I also believe that in the role of Lead systems designer, he can be held repsonsible.

I am not saying he failed at his job... as I don't know him nor follow him on tweeter and such. About the man himself, I have no opinion.

[Bullettime]

I am managing 3 teams in my irl job and in the end I am responsible for the direction the teams are moving in and also the results the team is booking.
That is part of my role as manager. I one of my teams get lower financial results in a year, I will be talked to as I am held responsible.
i will get a goal like, meeting expactations or even exeeding them the next year. If I don't make those, I will have to explain and believe me, nobody will listen to my "it is a team effort, i didn't do it alone". I will be blamed. If I don't succeed with reasonable reasons, I won't get a third chance, for that profit is too important.

While I do believe GC is not the only person to decide things on wow and we can't blame him as a person, I also believe that in the role of Lead systems designer, he can be held repsonsible.

I am not saying he failed at his job... as I don't know him nor follow him on tweeter and such. About the man himself, I have no opinion.

Ghostcrawler wasn't the lead guy though. He was the lead systems designer in the same way that Cory Stockton is lead content designer, Ion Hazzikostas is lead encounter designer, Alex Afrasiabi is lead world designer, and Holinka is lead PvP designer. Systems like dungeon finder, raid finder, transmogrification, itemization/stats, and class balance are what fell under Ghostcrawler. All of them answer to Tom Chilton who then answer to Rob Pardo.

If WoW's decline was due to lack of quality in the game, the combined team is at fault and not one man. And if one man is to be blamed, then it should be put on Tom Chilton who oversees the whole operation and gives the sign off on changes. But Chilton isn't the one on twitter answering questions and responding to concerns so obviously people redirect to the guy who is.

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

I think he was just offered a better job. One where the playerbase would be kinder, one where he didn't have to inherit old decisions from before his time. And with the influx of old devs returning, he felt now was a good job to hand the reigns back to their old holder.

[Bullettime]

I think he was just offered a better job. One where the playerbase would be kinder, one where he didn't have to inherit old decisions from before his time. And with the influx of old devs returning, he felt now was a good job to hand the reigns back to their old holder.

Also a career advancement move or at least the potential. The people above Ghostcrawler are basically Blizzard lifers which gives no room to advance from his current position barring sudden change ups like death or emergency absence, neither being likely in the near future.

Move to another game with more career advancement opportunity for the same money or more money in a higher position straight up with both adding more variety to his developer portfolio.

[Synstir]

He didn't say too long? He said it was long, as in a long time, which it is. A long time =/= too long.

6 years is a long time... for anything.... no need to say that if it has no context in leaving that company, right?
And, personally I don't think 6 years is a long time for being part of a team within a company.

In my teams (I am managing 3 teams) the shortest presence is now 7 years!
And to be honest, with the knowledge (company specific) and experience all the guys/girsl have, we do a great job.
If I get a new guy, it would take years to get that same experience in there.... even if the guy has worked in the same field for a few years.

Even if I think to leave the company, it will take a few years in a new company to gain the trust of management and collegues, to gain the same level as I have now.
So... there are different things to consider.

All people here are just thinking from their own perspective, as a gamer, something they do as a hobby.,... for GC this was his job, his career. That alone, changes any perspective. We will never be able to guess why he left, if he left or why Blizzard let hom go, if they did let him go.

people guess from what they find important:
classes are not balanced > great that he left.
Classes don't feel unique > great that he left.
LFR killed everything > Great that he left.
Community died > great that he left.

I mean, it was his job..... he made his living with it. Does anyone really think he would take that lightly?
For you this is a game... for him, it was his life for 6 years!!!

[DetectiveJohnKimble]

Also a career advancement move or at least the potential. The people above Ghostcrawler are basically Blizzard lifers which gives no room to advance from his current position barring sudden change ups like death or emergency absence, neither being likely in the near future.

Move to another game with more career advancement opportunity for the same money or more money in a higher position straight up with both adding more variety to his developer portfolio.

It definitely sounds like he has accepted a game director or producer role at another company based on his Twitter. He seems to indicate he won't be directly designing his next game. Basically he got a Chilton-level job, which makes sense.

A good analogy for those still puzzled-think about how assistant coaches move on and accept crappy head coaching positions elsewhere, believing they can turn that crappy team into something good if they're given the opportunity.