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  1. #1
    High Overlord foonkinator's Avatar
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    Anyone else Disappointed with our end game DPS?

    Hello all, Thanks for reading my post.....

    My question to the Death knights is, Aren't you guys disappointed in the dps we are producing compared to other classes @ the iLvL555+ ? Right now IM an officer/raid leader in a 25 man 14/14 going into heroic guild. I have had no problems ranking on worldoflogs.com for Death knights in the Unholy and Frost DPS specs. But now since most of us are getting to the 565++ iLvL gear point...... IM really starting to see my numbers not change and other classes booming pass us. I really find this discouraging.

    I consider myself a very very good Death knight since he has been my main since WoTLK and the fact that we are ranked like 20th overall for all DPS specs is really dishearten...... Anyone else feel this way?

    Sorry my old sig -- heres my profile http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...kinator/simple

  2. #2
    Not to rain on your parade, but if you were a really good death knight, you probably wouldn't be in a guild that took several months to progress through normal modes. Likewise with achieving heroic Raden by out-gearing it by 40 ilvls. If you're going to blow your own trumpet about your skill, at least have the achievements to support it.

    Otherwise Death Knights have performed solidly with one spec or the other throughout the expansion, not the top DPS but capable. They are usable for meaningful heroic progression, however they are falling behind when everyone catches up in gear. This is largely because at the end of expansions Blizzard tends to do this, they'll buff previously borderline unplayable specs once it no longer really matters and generally just leave everything else as it was - unless it stagnates to the point of no longer being worth using, you can embrace your low numbers until the pre-expansion patch, where everything will be thrown into disarray again.

  3. #3
    High Overlord foonkinator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryve View Post
    Not to rain on your parade, but if you were a really good death knight, you probably wouldn't be in a guild that took several months to progress through normal modes. Likewise with achieving heroic Raden by out-gearing it by 40 ilvls. If you're going to blow your own trumpet about your skill, at least have the achievements to support it.
    Its funny how you can say something so ignorant like this, Because I only raid 2 times a week with a group of Real Life friends makes me a Bad deathknight now because I didn't have heroic achievements? You sir need to get a life and stop drawing conclusions before you have any facts. I don't need to raid 4-5 nights a week to rush Heroic kills in order to consider myself a very good deathknight. Again grow up.

  4. #4
    Bloodsail Admiral MuricaIsDead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryve View Post
    Not to rain on your parade, but if you were a really good death knight, you probably wouldn't be in a guild that took several months to progress through normal modes. Likewise with achieving heroic Raden by out-gearing it by 40 ilvls. If you're going to blow your own trumpet about your skill, at least have the achievements to support it.

    Otherwise Death Knights have performed solidly with one spec or the other throughout the expansion, not the top DPS but capable. They are usable for meaningful heroic progression, however they are falling behind when everyone catches up in gear. This is largely because at the end of expansions Blizzard tends to do this, they'll buff previously borderline unplayable specs once it no longer really matters and generally just leave everything else as it was - unless it stagnates to the point of no longer being worth using, you can embrace your low numbers until the pre-expansion patch, where everything will be thrown into disarray again.
    post your #1 DK in the world or STFU.

    i'm with you, OP. DKs are way underperforming right now.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by foonkinator View Post

    I consider myself a very very good Death knight since he has been my main since WoTLK
    - what has that to do with the price of butter? and to consider yourself and to be might be two different things as ryve mentioned.
    Raiding 2 times a week,rl friends,bla, he didnt say you were a bad dk, he just said, you might not be the "very very good" one, which you brag to be.

    as a matter of fact, melees are in a very bad spot these days, at least in 10m the usual raid hardly takes more than one melee, and rogues/warriors are usually better suited for the job due to having awesome raid-cds. If in 25s, or if it's only dps you're looking at, dks are not top of the pops, but viable.
    Last edited by Grmmppff; 2013-11-30 at 03:00 AM.

  6. #6
    I agree OP. Completely...

    The one thing I wanted to say though was the guy that complained about the OP bragging was probably ticked off by using worldoflogs as an example. Everyone knows that anyone halfway decent is going to rank on WoL every time they run a normal mode. I remember back in WotLK after finishing H LK we went through and did normal modes to get our meta-achieve mounts and everyone on the damn raid team ranked in the world top 20 on those logs. Not trying to demean the OP, just stating the obvious since it kinda perplexed me too when I read it.

  7. #7
    there is nothing wrong with dks at all, in fact they are in a very good place in 560 plus ilvl you should be pulling around 300k dps and in BiS gear upto 380k which is around what most other classes do at BiS lvls.

    Your simcraft results in your gear show you capable of 300k dps so depending on the fight you should easily manage a steady 250k with no problems by the end of the fight on fights like sha of pride or protectors for example as some fights like immersus will affect dps results due to inactivity.

    If your unable to pull at least 200-250k easy enough then its more about how your playing than the class as all the classes are relatively balanced bar a few exceptions.

  8. #8
    I'm not really disappointed at all. I mean, all I care about is that we are viable. We are, so i'm happy.
    I would only be disappointed if we got to a point where all dk specs were so bad they were avoided like the plague and we all needed to reroll. Until then though I am fine with how we are.

    I don't need to be on the top of the meters, i'm fine as is. I can get near the top depending on the fight and such, but otherwise i'm around the middle and that's okay.

  9. #9
    Honorary PvM "Mod" Darsithis's Avatar
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    I feel the pain, OP.

    When we first start the fight I usually zoom up between 450 - 550k dps but eventually settle around 250k depending on adds and movement while rogues and warlocks always stay above me around 300 - 350k. It's frustrating to see such a gap at this point.

  10. #10
    Completely agree.. but i highly doubt that blizzard will adress this untill 6.0..

  11. #11
    High Overlord foonkinator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    there is nothing wrong with dks at all, in fact they are in a very good place in 560 plus ilvl you should be pulling around 300k dps and in BiS gear upto 380k which is around what most other classes do at BiS lvls.

    Your simcraft results in your gear show you capable of 300k dps so depending on the fight you should easily manage a steady 250k with no problems by the end of the fight on fights like sha of pride or protectors for example as some fights like immersus will affect dps results due to inactivity.

    If your unable to pull at least 200-250k easy enough then its more about how your playing than the class as all the classes are relatively balanced bar a few exceptions.
    I do pull well over 240k DPS ... the fact my warlock and enh blow me out of the water with 400k+ dps is just sad.

  12. #12
    I really do feel like a second class citizen after checking the logs after each boss : /

  13. #13
    High Overlord foonkinator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by freestylex View Post
    I really do feel like a second class citizen after checking the logs after each boss : /
    I know what you mean , Heres our last logs .... http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-2pn2menbd98rdnhd/


    look at Iron Jug ... 274k DPS came in 7th... =/ get smoked by other classes.

  14. #14
    Mechagnome Ineko's Avatar
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    Agreed, we can pull our weight but I feel like a wet noodle at times.

  15. #15
    Why are you glyphed Pestilence

    Why are you using Unholy Blight

    Post logs of Unholy and wonder why you're getting beat

    You've gotten 6+ kills of every boss why are you still using items with terrible stats

    No wonder your DPS is subpar

    Here's some logs to prove that it's 100% Talent choice and player skill

    My DK is 562 ilevel and a Blood Elf

    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-9l.../?s=891&e=1211 - 330k Nouroshen

    Your DK is 565 ilevel and an Orc
    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-2p...?s=2024&e=2347 - 250k Nouroshen

    That's not Noroushen logging issues, because you logged yourself, and I didn't. It just means you're bad.

    Sorry to be so blunt but I'm getting sick of threads where people complain about DKs and literally have no idea how to play the game.
    Last edited by Dossou; 2013-11-30 at 07:34 AM.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Dossou View Post
    Post logs of Unholy and wonder why you're getting beat
    Unholy is fine, competative, and doing well in Siege
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/m.../?s=677&e=1118
    Our Jugg kill this week, had some trials in but even then yeah i'm only getting beaten by a few people and only just barely by the lock.


    Norushen is one of the worst bosses to compare on because of issues you can have on WoL and the amount of padding that can or can't be done based on how your raid is handling things. Look at a single target boss like Malk or Jugg for a better comparison. Either way no need to bash like that.


    To show the difference here's the upload from myself, and then our raid leader on Norushen this week.
    Mine: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/m...ne/?s=44&e=439
    Raid leader: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/k...?s=1525&e=1920

    While his shows a higher DPS on me, mine shows a greater damage done by almost 2 mill damage.

    Also to the OP, take into account that you're a raid leader. Your dps suffers from that even if you don't mean it to. My raid leader does decent dps when raid leading, though is usually below our other retadins. However when we are just fooling around and he doesnt do raid leading duties his dps is on par with theirs and the difference is really noticeable.

  17. #17
    DKs are pretty bad dps wise.
    Our raid cooldown is terrible compared to other melees,
    and there's a lot of focus on raid cooldowns on the 4 hard bosses.
    plus there's no gimmick mandatory aoe grip fight.

    makes us one of the most bench friendly classes this tier.

    Any dk that's playing in a competitive heroic 25 guild has felt this (competitive in the sense that everyone on the roster is a good player, and alot of maximizing goes into the raid setup)

    Things that don't prove that dks are good this tier:
    1. a log where you ranked #1 but everyone else are baddies doing less than 250k
    2. Norushen logs, not because of the logging bugs but because not everyone drops their debuff early in the fight.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Maxweii View Post
    Unholy is fine, competative, and doing well in Siege
    That's why every DK played Frost for progression.

    If a spec is 50/50, even 80/20, it's competative.

    98/2 is not competative.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by tremulant View Post
    1. a log where you ranked #1 but everyone else are baddies doing less than 250k
    2. Norushen logs, not because of the logging bugs but because not everyone drops their debuff early in the fight.
    1. I'm not comparing my DPS to my raid, I'm comparing to the other DKs.
    2. He logged his own kill.

  19. #19
    The OP is doing a shit load of stuff wrong but still our dps is very lackluster this tier. Sure if a good dk is in a guild with bad players he can beat them but in a normal high end group we are going to get destroyed by equal skill players.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maxweii View Post
    Unholy is fine, competative, and doing well in Siege
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/m.../?s=677&e=1118
    Our Jugg kill this week, had some trials in but even then yeah i'm only getting beaten by a few people and only just barely by the lock.
    How the does that show UH as competitive? I could show blood as a competitive raid dps spec when playing with people that aren't maximizing their raid dps.
    Last edited by ChristopherHansen; 2013-11-30 at 09:07 AM.

  20. #20
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    I started a thread ( http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...Reroll-from-Dk ) because the same problem, and it's really annoying. We are good in the first 2 xpatch but horribly in the 3. Our KM mechanics are little boring but OK. But i doesn't feel that they will change anything to WoD, I hope they will but honestly I don't think so.
    Every other dps class was competive and better through the entire MoP than us(not just dps, but raid cd's, mechanics overall ect). At dps we fallen behind every other class to endgame, because our scaling problems, that wasn't fixed since.

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