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  1. #161
    I prefer the island to most other ways to catch alts up to current content. You argue that most who go there to walk around and collect gear tokens won't know what to do with their class. I raid heroic content on my main - I don't want to spend hours catching up my alts to an acceptable gear level for LFR and Flex. The reasons I make all of my alts is so I can have funsies on a diff class that I don't normally play often. I really like the isle - Sure, I can never get to Houlon in time but I don't try too hard. I've killed ordos a few times, but I don't consider that gear mandatory unless you're sorely missing a piece to be able to join flex groups. I can accept that your opinion is different than mine, but please, PLEASE, don't put blanket statements over those of us who do use the isle for it's intended purpose.
    Quote Originally Posted by Socialhealer View Post
    judging 25man raiding by LFR standards saying it requires no coordination, is like saying 5mans require cheese sandwiches because i like turtles.

  2. #162
    gonna leave my 2 cents here: personally i see timeless isle as a bonus level you find in some games, theres rares everywhere, theres rewards everywhere, theres mounts, theres vanity items, toys etc, and nothing that drops there has a significance on endgame raiding. the gear system is great for alt catching up, and 5 or so of my chars are geared almost exclusively from that place. i also find tokens to be a nice extra gold once you have no use for them
    relating to 'houlon 100%, houlon dead' i cant say it bothers me as much (might have to do with playing on a low pop realm) but then again, wasnt it you that chose to play on a high pop realm? you should know the pros and cons of it. if you simply want a certain mob/drop, you'll be camp it ~the time it should respawn, if you want a random rare, well 'its always a happy hour somewhere'
    i am one of the few that farmed the bag achievement, and yeah, some were a pain (camped and killed osu ~15 times a day for 3 weeks before he dropped the ashen stone, go figure...) but then again, id also call stuff like ab/wsg exalted or even 100 bg wins a terrible grind, no?
    in short, find someone kind enough to phase you to a low pop realm, or face the fact you picked out a high pop realm to play on...

  3. #163
    Quote Originally Posted by satimy View Post
    5 mans are a better catch up mechanism, the 496 doesnt actually help your character at all other than boosting your ilvl. Thats one of the main reasons LFR is unplayable, timeless isle gear.
    did you actually do the 5 mans at the end of wrath and cata, they didnt help you play your class any more then getting gear on the isle does

  4. #164
    Mechagnome Zantera's Avatar
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    Apr 2009
    I agree with many things in the OP. Personally, I think the 496-gear is a neat idea. I currently have 5 chars at 90, and for each alt I get to 90, I have a nice little set of starter gear that gives me a decent start at 90. The timeless-gear is exactly that for me, it's decent "I just hit 90"-gear, but should be replaced as fast as possible with 502 or 528 LFR-gear. I can see the arguments for "it caters to the lazy people", but to be honest, I've done HoF/ToES/MSV on three of my characters, and apart from doing normal/heroic mode on my main for achievements, I really don't feel like setting foot in there on my alts. ToT and SoO on the other hand are fresh and exciting, and that's what makes me pumped.

    The timeless coins is arguably one of the most useless things they have ever added to the game. Sure, there's one mount and one pet, but neither are that interesting, and they also require that massive grind which is another pain in the ass. Nobody in their right mind (not even achievement-hunters) would suffer through that long rep-grind for a mount that is just a fairly ugly recolor of a common mount. If the mount had been unique and awesome, maybe.

    As for the rare mobs, I think the idea is interesting, and a rare like Huolon clearly works. However, so many of them just feels useless, and the feeling of something being "rare" isn't there anymore. I go to the isle only to do Ordos, Celestials and the weekly on my main for Valor points, so I'm fairly casual about it, and it still really annoys me. Isle of Thunder was really nice imo, this isle doesn't come close. But man, I miss Isle of Quel'danas. That place was the shit.

  5. #165
    agree with the rares, they should either get more hp or some kind of emote 2min be4 they spawn so ppl can get there intime.
    as for the burdens im fine with the droprate, the price of 50k seems a little high thou, 20 whould be more inline. as it is now you will have gotten 2-3 burdens as a random drop from rares be4 you have collected 50k coins to buy one.

    as for the terrain i disagree 100%, i think the fact that terrain matter as much as it does is great!

    agree with the repgrind, it goes to slow, id rather have stronger mobs that gives more rep. and more daily Quests for it.

    it also saddens me that the ordos boss was so easy. Id love it if blizz made an outdoor worldboss that were actually hard to kill.

  6. #166
    Pit Lord Voyager's Avatar
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    Oct 2011
    Soviet Union
    Quote Originally Posted by Aphrel View Post
    Id love it if blizz made an outdoor worldboss that were actually hard to kill.
    Go kill Oondasta, the fact that hardly anyone kills him and Nalak anymore shows how worthless the community has become.

  7. #167
    The Undying Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Jaina Proudmoore's side. Always and forever.
    Quote Originally Posted by Voyager View Post
    Go kill Oondasta, the fact that hardly anyone kills him and Nalak anymore shows how worthless the community has become.
    Community has always been like that.

    Paladin-Sorcerer at your service! My Youtube Channel

  8. #168
    I absolutely loathe the free Mindless Isle gear, and I'm even primarily an LFR player (kinda moved up to Flex heh). Not because I begrudge people the gear, but because it's so utterly easy to get (Look, a chest! Open it!) that the player has no investment in it whatsoever and treats it that way ... leading to LFR being filled with people in Mindless gear that is unenchanted/gemmed/reforged and generally being more terrible than the average LFR player has ever been.

    I don't blame these players, the gear is free and you have no investment in it whatsoever and the plan is to replace it with SoO LFR gear ASAP so why should they bother with optimizing it (other than personal pride in doing well)?

    It wasn't Flex that wrecked SoO LFR ... it was Mindless Isle IMO.

  9. #169
    While not personally experiencing the isle itself, from your description it may seem a little overtuned for drops ... but they are drops that aren't relevant compared to the raid tier, correct?

    I fully disagree with your Wrath assessment. The barrier pre-Wrath was more about attunements and guild leeching; those combined could hold guilds back while the others stole them, so the top guilds never had to bother with attunements and lower end guilds all they felt like they were doing was attuning new player to have them poached.

    Wrath gave you the ability of time and effort = reward. You geared up through how much effort you put into the game. Moreso when LFD hit the game. Prior to LFD, forming groups and doing all your instances to get your currency before reset in addition to your raid. After LFD, you could gear up in about a week or less at the start and towards the end in day or two, but you were spending 99% of the time in LFD. You had to run a ton of instances to farm that non-tier set. You could get a 2 piece from the prior tier through points, that was it. Effort vs Reward.

    What we got starting in cata and even more in mists is gating/barriers to prolong it. It wasn't about effort vs reward, it was about showing up for your job every day and doing your routine. There was no real catch up. You did your dailies. You hit your cap. The cap itself made it feel mandatory, instead of in wrath, you just farmed for a piece today, maybe another tomorrow, next week you might have something irl come up, so you just didn't play and could catch up ... with a cap, you never make up for that week you missed because of responsibilities ... and that doesn't feel right when you are paying for your entertainment monthly.

    What we see in this kind of attitude you put forth is ... everything needs to be brutally earned. It doesn't. There needs to be content that is viable for all types.

    The ones ruining LFR? from what I recall in threads, it seemed to be a lot of elitist raiding pricks that felt they were too good to do anything so they felt they were justified in white attacks or just standing there with someone on follow. You can't blame the derogatorly used 'casual' for that; you can blame the self-important asshats.

    Old tiers are dying because the game has changed. It won't go back. People will not do old tiers to progress any longer. I don't mind doing them to help people, but you won't find guilds running new recruits/players. If guilds don't support it, it isn't going to happen. The only reason it used to work is because of the way the game used to be designed; but it punished a lot of people as well, it punished the ones who stuck with guilds for the people and not guild hopped for progression ... and that is bad design when it sets the standard of breaking loyalty in a social based game.

    You bad world design comments I feel are spot on though. This is the very problem people are going to have with no flying. Paths with mobs. Mob density. Respawn rates. Return paths from deaths. People forget how irritating it can be, challenge is great, but mindless amounts of easy mobs to make your trip longer is not. Having to kill 50 things to get to y and 50 more to get back to x is not challenging, it is busy work. There is so much about this; but it fits their idea of how to make you take longer or their ideas of immersion.

    The grinds are very reminiscent of the past. You don't -have- to do them. This has pretty much always been the case. You didn't have to get netherwing drakes. You didn't have to get Ogri'la to exalted. They are things to do for people who want something else to do. I don't think it feels the same now, no matter how they approach it though. That can be an issue, our perception of different grinds have changed over the years. I think the Aldor/Scryer thing would be much harder to do now than it was in BC; the players are different, including the nostalgic ones.

    Rares are rare, and rare items from rares are even rarer. You know what else? server mergers is going to make this more and more an issue. You want to know how bad? Look at how many people still camp Time-Lost ... even on an almost dead server you'd always have competition for it years later. Either you are willing to camp spawns, or you just have to give up trying and hope dumb luck hits you.

    You can't say it hasn't brought anything good. You can say the design needs work. The idea is sound, and it is basically a form of IoQD, a very popular feature people asked for again from BC. Their design is getting tedious though, that is the real problem with it. You feel it wasn't designed to be fun and challenging, more of a time sink and chore ... that doesn't mean the whole idea is crap; but it does mean implementation and methods could be different to be appreciable to your tastes.

    Don't be so hateful; it isn't becoming.

  10. #170
    For years, people yelled at blizzard to bring back the structure of allowing players to decide how much they wanna do. And as soon they allow us to farm as much we want per day, this kind of threads pops up. God I feel bad for Blizzard.

  11. #171
    Pandaren Monk tratra's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Between LON & NY
    I liked timeless islan, but it was way too buggy when i used to play on it. I dunno about now or if they went back and fix it but its way too buggy! Collision everywhere, glitches everywhere some rares doesnt drop anything even after killing them, the aggro table is weird and yes the rares shouldnt go down that fast.

  12. #172
    Quote Originally Posted by Restors View Post
    For years, people yelled at blizzard to bring back the structure of allowing players to decide how much they wanna do. And as soon they allow us to farm as much we want per day, this kind of threads pops up. God I feel bad for Blizzard.
    THis thread means jackshit. Just cause one is screaming his lungs doesnt mean that the whole herd is angry.

  13. #173
    Elemental Lord Golden Yak's Avatar
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    Oct 2009
    The Sunny Beaches of Canada
    Or the greatest.

  14. #174
    Titan Snowraven's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
    European Union
    Let us tackle your points logically:

    1.In the last patch of an expansion, some ideas for new players or alts to catch up are implemented. This has been the case since... Burning Crusade at least (don't know how it was in Classic) where you got the Isle of Quel'danas where you could do your dailies, get a bunch of gold and even a bunch of gears. Also, not everything is catered to you. Like... the Insane title, you're not forced to get it, but it's there. Same as you're not forced to get the pet and the mount... but they're there. It's your choice to try and farm coins to get them.

    2.See point one and Isle of Quel'danas. The quests there weren't hard, buying gear for emblems from the daily dungeon and daily heroic wasn't hard, it just took a while. Same principle.

    3.Wait, didn't you say that gearing is easy? Yet... the rare mobs don't really drop gear as much? So... why are you hunting them? For an achievement? Maybe the achievement is not for you, it's for people who did things like "The Insane", "Justicar" and the such. Again, not everything is catered to you.

    4. Didn't you say that there's mobs everywhere and tigers more then grass and rares everywhere? That's supposed to hint you towards the idea that you're supposed to TEAM UP with people. Also, you're contradicting yourself, first it's too easy, now it's too hard? Logic, you have none.

    5. This reminds me of the achievements for finding 25 rares on each continent... they were always dead when the expansions were current, so you never met them. So you'd come back next expansion when people didn't give a shit about them anymore except a few and kill them. Nothing strange or different. Oh, they have a small droprate of something that gives you an achievement? So do the bosses of Molten Core for the bindings, so does Illidan for the warglaives, so does Arthas for Invincible the mount etc. And you know what, in 3 years of killing Illidan almost every 2 weeks, I didn't get one warglaive, didn't even see one drop. So, again, no difference.

    In conclusion, I think your points are subjective. While I admit I didn't play the island myself (because I quit some time ago), your points still remain subjective as I have given examples. Furthermore, some new breath into WoW PvE is always welcomed, and while I agree that the entire expansion can't be made fully like the Timeless Isle, ideas from it can and should be implemented besides quests and dailies and everything else. Too much of one side and it's bad, as in, too many dailies and it's bad, too many events like the Timeless Isle and it's bad. There needs to be a balance.

  15. #175
    Quote Originally Posted by ComputerNerd View Post
    The horrible community is why LFR exists, and why there are such catchup mechanisms.
    There are some aspects which turn it into an artificial grind, a huge timesink but those are other issues altogether.
    If the playerbase was less fussed about gear as some measure of a player then many people otherwise struggling to commit might get more opportunities to earn the gear from more traditional content.
    Raiding has become numbers driven, and not about the fun or the experience.
    Im not sure how you can sit there, say LFR is an attempt to stop the toxic community, and then see the worst of players in LFR.

    Gear shows effort. Your gear shows your experience, skill and dedication. Gear also is progression, and there are gear checks. People in bad gear tend to be either new, so inexperienced, bad, or just undedicated. None of those are good qualities. New players tend to make their way out of it and get better gear, but they will always be looked at second.

    Its not fun to wipe over and over because there are players who are terrible. It is fun to progress slowly learning to improve on the fights. If you are still in 515 ilvl right now, you aren't the learning type, you are the "I dont give a damn" type. No raid team wants to put up with that. If you cannot get your gear in order then you certainly are not going to handle the increasing difficulty of raids.

    The horrible community is the players who lack dedication and skill, but still expect to be treated with the same amount of respect as a heroic raider. There is basic respect, and there is earned respect.

  16. #176
    Dynamic events are cool. Even treasure is cool but not free epics.

  17. #177
    Quote Originally Posted by Voyager View Post
    Go kill Oondasta, the fact that hardly anyone kills him and Nalak anymore shows how worthless the community has become.
    Its mostly because for 15% droprates it isnt worth the time to get gear that is less than LF"R"

    Why would anybody spend an hour putting together an Oondasta group, for a chance at 522 gear when you can spend the same time for 4 chances, all higher %, at 528 gear?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by eodusaf View Post
    did you actually do the 5 mans at the end of wrath and cata, they didnt help you play your class any more then getting gear on the isle does
    Eh. Trying to tank the stupid mages on Queen Azhara made me a bit of a better tank, and taught dps to focus tank target, but yea, the heroics were pretty much jokes.

  18. #178
    I agree it's terrible, though it's not the worst. Battlefield Barrens was worse than it, and that still wasn't the worst.

    I'm all for working toward content rather than having it handed over, but I'd vastly prefer a system where I'd be closer to getting the items I want after two months of near-daily camping rares than I am today. It'd also be fun if there was engaging gameplay to make it feel like a game, instead of sitting at a spawn point and reading websites/playing other games split-screen. I never got into the TLPD camping and I don't see why throwing up another 30 of them on one Isle was a good idea.

    MUCH prefer dailies.

  19. #179
    I'm still making use out of Timeless Isle almost every day on my main and alts, and certainly every week for the valor rewards. And, every time I'm there, it's bustling with activity. I mean that island is constantly crawling with people around every corner in every nook and cranny. They wanted to get people out in the world and succeeded well beyond my expectations with Timeless Isle. The Celestial courtyard almost rivals the shrines and cities as a hangout/AFK/alt-tab spot.

    And this is accomplished using very limited dynamic event tech compared to other games. Aside from the ship event most of the dynamic content boils down to rare hunting, in some cases accompanied by rudimentary world event scenarios... I'm thinking of Zesqua or the beer event here. If they had the tech that GW2 has, who knows wha they could do with it.

    Also, my opinion is that the Emperor Shaohao rep has hugely successful at reviving open-ended group play out in the world. I realize it's not for everyone however, and it would be ideal in the future of Shaohao-style reps be accompanied by reps that can be advanced by dailies and other means.

  20. #180
    I like TI and look forward to more of this content style in WoD.

    Quote Originally Posted by Battlebeard View Post

    The idea of Timeless
    Fair enough, I have a huge pile of coins myself and not much use for them. Although you should figure out what you want to buy before you mindlessly grind your face off.

    Quote Originally Posted by Battlebeard View Post
    Supports the lazy and the bad
    It's fast gearing for alts just like JP used to be in every other patch. Stop trying to blame everything in the game for you getting a bad LFR group.

    Quote Originally Posted by Battlebeard View Post

    "Huolon 100%... Houlon dead"
    Yes this is really frustrating and I hope they get better at scaling mob HP to stop this happening. That said I love all the rare mobs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Battlebeard View Post

    This place sucks...
    Everything you're complaining about is completely intentional.

    Except maybe the Yaungols charging you as you run past, that's a bit egregious.

    Quote Originally Posted by Battlebeard View Post
    ...and you never leave it
    It's all optional so only yourself to blame there.

    Quote Originally Posted by Battlebeard View Post
    The biggest turd ever laid
    Yes the biggest bag achievement is insane. It's meant to be.

    However they should've made it account level progress, that part REALLY shits me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Battlebeard View Post
    Last words, Timeless Isle is the worst idea created for any video game in the history of gaming.
    The lack of perspective in this comment is just staggering.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tojara View Post
    Look Batman really isn't an accurate source by any means
    Quote Originally Posted by Hooked View Post
    It is a fact, not just something I made up.

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