Help us improve our garrosh normal performance please (logs included)

[cszsolt3]

Logs to today's wipes: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/y...ses&boss=71865

Our best try was at 3% , so we are probably getting him down in a few days or a week's time(after about 80 wipes..uhh). Right now I am trying to figure out our setup going into heroic raiding. It's hard as hell to attract talented people as a few months old (13/14) guild, I already noticed quite a lot of mistakes from the logs and I would love if you guys could point out even more. We have constant attendance problems, along with personal performance issues which you should see in the logs, we did today's wipes with a PUG dps (Bigzé warrior).

Can't really replace anyone as we are already often have to skip a raid thanks to our lack of active raiders. Only option left is to hammer everything into them until they understand clearly what they should be doing with their class. I appreciate any input greatly.

[Deadmedic]

i mean logs dont tell me strat, 3% wipes mean you are getting killed during the last empowered whirling corruption, how are you handling this? whats the raid and room look like at the transition to the last phase? what are you doing in the last phase for your strat

[cszsolt3]

i mean logs dont tell me strat, 3% wipes mean you are getting killed during the last empowered whirling corruption, how are you handling this? whats the raid and room look like at the transition to the last phase? what are you doing in the last phase for your strat

Bl once we hit phase 3, ignore adds from then on, let tanks pick them up. Ranged and healers standing roughly spread out around a healer. Chain raid cooldowns once the whirling corruptions hit.
Honestly our strats aren't the problem , its mostly the execution, thats why I am looking at personal performances mostly. We had fucktons of stupid wipes, like melee dying because offtank fails at picking up adds in phase 1, our hunter failing at shooting down an engineer, some guy dcing randomly, ranged being slow as fuck with nuking adds..etc . I am sorry I am still a bit amped up after today's raid, sometimes it feels like I am leading a bunch of kindergarteners to world war 3.
Next time we are on garrosh I am going to be recording as well , post it up here if we still manage to fail killing him.

[Sonnillon]

Firstly.

Have your mage do the engineers. Cause he can blink. Also if you already haven't, place wlock portals to the side where engineers is which you are killing faster travel time.

Please don't give the majority of blame in picking up the adds to the OT. Cause the adds come from different sides and if melee goes nuts before any decent AoE threat has landed they will die, simple. Have your hunter MD the adds to the OT.

Your hunter might fail doing the engineers cause he is BM. Pets cannot attack the engineer. If he is out of focus he doesn't have that much utility to burn the engineer down w/o his/her pet nomming on the engineer. So just switch his/her duties with the mage. OR you can tell your hunter to go SV, much more reliable spec for engineer.

Secondly
Having so much melee on that fight is not that good. Cause they will have to (if they don't have the CD to soak the Whirling corruption in melee) get out of melee range for Whirlings, get out of melee range to help on interrupt the MC people, which all is a DPS loss. On top of that they could get weapons on top of tanks if you get bad RNG.

Thirdly
Try 2 healing. We killed it first time w/ 2 healers doing less HPS then your 3 combined. Even on our last kill we did less HPS then you (though we have our mw play sith and kill the engineers , leaving more time for pure DPS).

Bl once we hit phase 3, ignore adds from then on, let tanks pick them up

Also are you finishing the adds off before a new set or you leave them the way they are? Have just 1 tank on the adds when they are empowered and have them kited around by the tank.
Kill of the none empowered adds. Burn boss as much as you can. Time your tankswaps so that the tank who takes the adds has the tank debuff and the other who stays on boss doesn't. That way the amount of stacks won't kill the tank. Also make sure that NONE of the adds die in p3. Even one small add dead will ramp up the tank dmg.

Your paladin's SoR uptime is absolutely crap. If he improves that he will take less damage. That is the only thing which really is noticeable, but there good be more as I don't know much about paladins.

[Smight]

I won't address the points in the post above me, as I don't know if they looked at certain things.

Your healers look good, disc carrying shaman as likely expected with absorbs. Get your Mage and hunter checked out; I looked at the longest parse and the hunter and Mage left a lot to be desired. I think this is more executing than fixes you're going to get from here.

[DemoBytom]

2 healing this fight is definitely a key. There's really not much dmg going on and it's very predictible. On normal our general strategy is to take max 2 mele, 4 ranged, 2 healers, 2 tanks. 3 mele are still viable though IMHO, though harder overall, since their dmg on the boss will be lower (running away for whirling corruptions).

in p3 - with 2 tanks and 2 healers, with BL and all CDs saved you shouldn't get more than 1 Empowered Whirling Corruption. Really not a reason to get 2.. When this happens my co tank takes the boss, I take all the adds and start kiting them away, so they don't die and empower others. All DPS completely ignore them and just nuke the boss.
At this point, in execute range he shouldn't stay long. After I start kiting we no longer tank swap. Just have your OT save all his CDs, and survive till the boss' dead. If you need to tank swap, still ignore the adds.
Don't loose people in p3 though - no reason to die to Empowered Whirling Corruption. Save devo aura for it, have all DPS get away from the boss, spread out about 10y and dodge the add that's spawning.
Have everyone run to the boss for MCs, and break them quickly. You had monk there, right? Have him take RoP, and just AoE interrupt all MCs. With good DPS you shouldn't need more interrupting, even in p3.

But the most, the most important thing on Garrosh - is to get everyone comfortable with the fight, so they know when to move and where. It requires certain amount of wipes, so that people get the order and the flow of the encounter in their heads.

[cszsolt3]

I won't address the points in the post above me, as I don't know if they looked at certain things.

Your healers look good, disc carrying shaman as likely expected with absorbs. Get your Mage and hunter checked out; I looked at the longest parse and the hunter and Mage left a lot to be desired. I think this is more executing than fixes you're going to get from here.

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...os/Nifu/simple This is his gear, its quite obvious he should be pulling more especially since he isn't on engineer duty or anything, but sadly I don't know jackshit about mages so I can't point obvious mistakes from the logs except for the fact that barely ever uses ice barrier or alter time.

[xytech]

Wow.... dps is just terrible, you'd expect more from a 540 group. Have every single dps post in their respective "fix my dps" thread to get individual tips from experts of their class. With this poor dps I'd say your execution is likely pretty good, just ruined by everything lasting longer than it should.

That mage for instance, 561 ilvl with good weapon, trinkets and 4 set. He should've probably done at least 300-350k, approximately double what he's at atm.

[Deleted]

Bl once we hit phase 3, ignore adds from then on,

Have you tried not ignoring the mechanics (except perhaps when on 2% if everyone is still alive)?

[Sonnillon]

Have you tried not ignoring the mechanics (except perhaps when on 2% if everyone is still alive)?

You can "ignore" the adds, by having one tank keep aggro on all of the Empowered ones and just bring them away from rest so no accidental cleave dmg would kill one. I guess maybe the OP means that... I dunno.

[Deleted]

Wow.... dps is just terrible, you'd expect more from a 540 group. Have every single dps post in their respective "fix my dps" thread to get individual tips from experts of their class. With this poor dps I'd say your execution is likely pretty good, just ruined by everything lasting longer than it should.

That mage for instance, 561 ilvl with good weapon, trinkets and 4 set. He should've probably done at least 300-350k, approximately double what he's at atm.

Look at epeenbot for frost mage on garrosh. You'll see that 150k is a really low, but 300-350k would put him on a 95%+ percentile (And stats are biased by all heroic raiders not yet 14/14H, cleaning the raid on normal)

The 50% percentile is ~220k and is more the expected dps target (for a 6 dps group) to down garrosh the first time. That's still a 50% increase of his performance.

[xytech]

Look at epeenbot for frost mage on garrosh. You'll see that 150k is a really low, but 300-350k would put him on a 95%+ percentile (And stats are biased by all heroic raiders not yet 14/14H, cleaning the raid on normal)

The 50% percentile is ~220k and is more the expected dps target (for a 6 dps group) to down garrosh the first time. That's still a 50% increase of his performance.

Never heard of that site before, it's pretty interesting to watch. I suppose you're right about the expectations, yet I believe with his gear he should be able to do a lot more if he's willing to improve. I'm just a somewhat poorly geared pugger myself and are ~95%+ on tons of the fights.

[Deleted]

I won't address the points in the post above me, as I don't know if they looked at certain things.

Your healers look good, disc carrying shaman as likely expected with absorbs. Get your Mage and hunter checked out; I looked at the longest parse and the hunter and Mage left a lot to be desired. I think this is more executing than fixes you're going to get from here.

I don't think it's just down to the players. When you see a lone melee getting killed by an Iron Star, it means that positioning isn't being organised properly. Use raid markers and call out which one people should be on at any given time.

[kamuimac]

Having so much melee on that fight is not that good. Cause they will have to (if they don't have the CD to soak the Whirling corruption in melee) get out of melee range for Whirlings, get out of melee range to help on interrupt the MC people, which all is a DPS loss. On top of that they could get weapons on top of tanks if you get bad RNG.
.

actually many melee on normal garosh isnt an issue at all - especially if they know how to use their cds to keep dpsing during whirlwinds in first p2 part - killed him with 3 melee 3 ranged without a problem - if OP has melee heavy setup my advice is just make your range/healers move to melee for mc and then move out for whirlwind -_- most wipes in p3 comes a) from being overcomed by adds b) from failed interupts on mced -_-

and about ignoring adds - from my experience for my guild it was much eaiser to just kill first set of adds in p3 and then ignore 2nd set by tank picking them up - the kill this way were much cleaner and less messy -_-

[Zathoros]

I can find alot of thing this mage can change to boost his dps.
First of all tell him to replace the Icy Veins glyph with Splitting Ice. It will boost his dps alot when there are multiple targets. Icy Veins glyph is decreasing dmg when its single target.
After checking the logs from most of the fight i noticed lots of things. He is using ice lance without having the proc. (proc gives 4x dmg since target counts as frozen + 25% dmg + 100% crit). secondly he seem to idle alot between doing spells. Compared with my mage (similar gear think i had 564 not much of a difference). Anyway i cast 160 frostbolts in 8mins he did 101 in 11 min (your longest try) so im not really sure what he is doing. You have to tell him to learn his class or just get a replacement.

PS. Ice Barrier does not matter at all and alter time is 3min CD

[Deleted]

killed him with 3 melee 3 ranged without a problem

Same, did it on 10-man on my DK alt (who was a undergeared at the time) with two other melee.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_lREERuqYk

[mistahwilshire]

Honestly if your raid DPS is that low and you've gotten to 3% then your execution isn't nearly as big of a problem as your DPS just not DPS'ing very efficiently. This fight is probably one of the most extreme cases in a long long time where high DPS trivializes the hell out of a ton of nasty mechanics. My raid for example (though definitely more geared) only gets one empowered whirl in the entire fight during phase 3 when the boss has ~30-50 mil health left because our DPS pushes him through phase 2 so fast that he doesn't get that ability yet.

So yea, get your DPS players to step it up and push out more damage like they really should be and you should have the fight down soon.

[Deleted]

Never heard of that site before, it's pretty interesting to watch. I suppose you're right about the expectations, yet I believe with his gear he should be able to do a lot more if he's willing to improve. I'm just a somewhat poorly geared pugger myself and are ~95%+ on tons of the fights.

You're 95 on two of the normal mode fights

[TEHPALLYTANK]

Send your prot paladin to this thread. They really need to improve. Of the many things they are not doing it would seem that they are not attacking the MC'd players, they should be because tank damage is extremely useful at bursting down the MC players considering the levels of vengeance on that fight. They missed about 2/3 of their grand crusader procs, they aren't using their dps CDs nearly as often as they could be and their SotR uptime is only 15% when it should easily be above 35%. There are several other things that I skipped over but you get the general idea.

Your healers seem to be doing fine at least, just some of your dps and your pally tank need to step it up.

[Raiju]

Never heard of that site before, it's pretty interesting to watch. I suppose you're right about the expectations, yet I believe with his gear he should be able to do a lot more if he's willing to improve. I'm just a somewhat poorly geared pugger myself and are ~95%+ on tons of the fights.

1. You're not
2. 20 ilvls is practically 30%+ dps increase at the ilvls we're at now. If you do 300k then you shouldn't expect more than 210k from them.