1. #2501
    Magic mon.
    Anemo: traveler, Sucrose
    Pyro: Yanfei, Amber, diluc, xiangling, thoma, Xinyan, Bennett
    Geo: Noelle, Ningguang, Yun Jin, Gorou
    Hydro: Barbara, Zingqiu, Ayato
    Cyro: Shenhe, Kaeya, Chongyun, Diona, Ayaka, Rosaria
    Electro: Fischl, Lisa, Miko, Kujou, Raiden, Razor

  2. #2502
    Quote Originally Posted by Thaladhrun View Post
    It was a bit more than a social status - they engaged in selective breeding, that resulted in increasing levels of proficiency in the arcane. Honestly, I'm split on whether they would have a unique appearance to them, but Azshara is silver-haired, and purple skin isn't out of line with the sort of colorations the arcane tends to result in.
    Purple skin is common trait of NE. Nothing to do with arcane.

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    Possibly but then this should've occurred to the Shen'dralar as well as any other elves cut off from the Well, and does not explain why they would diminish in size, when the starting point was dark trolls, who would not have been enlarged much by the Well in the first place.
    It's not just possible. It's stated in official lore. May not make sense but it's official not speculation. Also, Shren'dalar and the NE are not cut from WoE. World Tree is 2nd WoE.

  3. #2503
    The Lightbringer Zathrendar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wildmoon View Post
    Purple skin is common trait of NE. Nothing to do with arcane.
    True enough. On the other hand, its own coloration is a vivid purple. If you look at the creatures transformed by it in Dragonblight, they tend to have a mixture of pale white and purple colours, and in some case blue. It may mirror the divergence in appearances fel can create, just in a more attenuated form. So if the creature is already purple, it will just become ruddier and thus a deeper purple.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wildmoon View Post

    It's not just possible. It's stated in official lore. May not make sense but it's official not speculation. Also, Shren'dalar and the NE are not cut from WoE. World Tree is 2nd WoE.
    Could you quote it then? And to my knowledge the Shen'dralar were cut off from it, hence why they resorted to draining Immolthar to retain their immortality.
    Start trying to work out who deserves what, and before long you’ll spend the rest of your days weeping for each and every person in the world.

  4. #2504
    Could you quote it then? And to my knowledge the Shen'dralar were cut off from it, hence why they resorted to draining Immolthar to retain their immortality.
    http://www.wowhead.com/object=175733...-of-quelthalas It's an ingame book.

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    True enough. On the other hand, its own coloration is a vivid purple. If you look at the creatures transformed by it in Dragonblight, they tend to have a mixture of pale white and purple colours, and in some case blue. It may mirror the divergence in appearances fel can create, just in a more attenuated form. So if the creature is already purple, it will just become ruddier and thus a deeper purple.
    Don't know what I could say because this is pure speculation. Malfurion has deep purple skin you know.

  5. #2505
    The Lightbringer Zathrendar's Avatar
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    The way it reads is this:

    Since they were effectively cut off from the life-giving energies of the Well of Eternity, many of them fell ill from the frigid climate or died from starvation. The most disconcerting change, however, was the fact that they were no longer immortal or immune to the elements. They also shrank somewhat in height, and their skin lost its characteristic violet hue. Despite their hardships, they encountered many wondrous creatures that had never been seen in Kalimdor.
    So I can see why you would make that inference (even though it doesn't explicitly link the changes/hardships to the Well but lists the effects of deprivation from it as one of many, arguably), but it's basically an in-game book, written by an NPC who may have no idea of the totality of effects acting on high elf evolution.

    It really doesn't make a great deal of sense when everything is taken together, and I hope Blizzard will go into a bit more depth about it than this rather brief account.
    Start trying to work out who deserves what, and before long you’ll spend the rest of your days weeping for each and every person in the world.

  6. #2506
    Arcane magic very odd voodoo
    Anemo: traveler, Sucrose
    Pyro: Yanfei, Amber, diluc, xiangling, thoma, Xinyan, Bennett
    Geo: Noelle, Ningguang, Yun Jin, Gorou
    Hydro: Barbara, Zingqiu, Ayato
    Cyro: Shenhe, Kaeya, Chongyun, Diona, Ayaka, Rosaria
    Electro: Fischl, Lisa, Miko, Kujou, Raiden, Razor

  7. #2507
    Quote Originally Posted by Thaladhrun View Post
    The way it reads is this:



    So I can see why you would make that inference (even though it doesn't explicitly link the changes/hardships to the Well but lists the effects of deprivation from it as one of many, arguably), but it's basically an in-game book, written by an NPC who may have no idea of the totality of effects acting on high elf evolution.

    It really doesn't make a great deal of sense when everything is taken together, and I hope Blizzard will go into a bit more depth about it than this rather brief account.
    That's all lore has to offer on the topic. If you don't believe to be canon then it's fine but atm Highborne were not physically different from NE in general. Many individuals prove this.

  8. #2508
    Quote Originally Posted by Thaladhrun View Post
    Yeah. Just because it isn't an Old God doesn't mean it can't be something related to them, but the Nathrezim is a good catch, it may be related to the Legion in some way or other. With respect to the undead, I doubt it, the whispers predate Sylvanas.

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    Yes, fel has a transformative element to it. Whether it makes one weaker at first or not I don't know, Gul'dan is just one warlock in the grand scheme of things; it may do that but I'm more interested in its ultimate effect. The blood elves are/were still pretty early in that transformative phase, barring the felbloods who sped things up a bit by consuming demonic energies directly from terrorguards.

    Really, I'd like them to clear up the arcane, its relation to fel and Nether energies more generally and their transformative effects. I think you picked up on what I consider to be inconsistencies in the whole story with regard to the "shrinking" (as troll descendents, they were large with or without the Well or Nordrassil) and the different effects the Shen'dralar have experienced. I am sure they'll clear it all up at some point and reveal whether there's some other agent acting on the high elves' evolution.

    Could be a spider kingdom too.

  9. #2509
    Quote Originally Posted by Thaladhrun View Post
    The way it reads is this:



    So I can see why you would make that inference (even though it doesn't explicitly link the changes/hardships to the Well but lists the effects of deprivation from it as one of many, arguably), but it's basically an in-game book, written by an NPC who may have no idea of the totality of effects acting on high elf evolution.

    It really doesn't make a great deal of sense when everything is taken together, and I hope Blizzard will go into a bit more depth about it than this rather brief account.
    In-game books are canon and lore, even if some of the information changed over time. They are considered lore by Blizzard, same as the lore items in Pandaria/IoT. Doesn't matter if it's only one account by some random NPC, it's actually canon, considered to be the absolute truth until stated otherwise.
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  10. #2510
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    Quote Originally Posted by Destinas View Post
    In-game books are canon and lore, even if some of the information changed over time. They are considered lore by Blizzard, same as the lore items in Pandaria/IoT. Doesn't matter if it's only one account by some random NPC, it's actually canon, considered to be the absolute truth until stated otherwise.
    When I first started playing the entire contents of those in game books was posted on the official site as the history of the world for players to read up on. This was after TBC had already retconned the draenei/eredar story, but the whole collected thing was still canon enough for them to make available on their site for anyone who wanted to catch up on their lore.

  11. #2511
    Quote Originally Posted by Wildmoon View Post
    I will say it again. Highborne look exactly the same as any Night Elf physically. Just look at Captian Varo'then. He was HB and had black hair and generic purple skin. Magic didn't alter the HB to look different. Illidan look just like average NE if not for his arcane tattoo despite involving himself heavily in arcane art. Silver Hair and skin ARE NOT special trait of Highborne.

    They were simply a group of people who were convinced that they were superior to the rest of their kind.
    It was not exclusive, just common among the upper class. This is why most highborne in the game all have white hair and skin. See Dire Maul. Exceptions to a norm don't negate a norm.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkvoltinx View Post
    what are you trying to get at?
    Nothing for you to be concerned about understanding.
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  12. #2512
    It was not exclusive, just common among the upper class. This is why most highborne in the game all have white hair and skin. See Dire Maul. Exceptions to a norm don't negate a norm.
    and plenty of highborne outside of Diremaul with no white hair and pale skin. It's common because white hair and pale skin are not recognizable about HB. It's just generic night elf thing. Highborne like Captian Varo'then was not an exception in appearance. He looked normal.

  13. #2513
    Quote Originally Posted by Wildmoon View Post
    and plenty of highborne outside of Diremaul with no white hair and pale skin. It's common because white hair and pale skin are not recognizable about HB. It's just generic night elf thing. Highborne like Captian Varo'then was not an exception in appearance. He looked normal.
    As I mentioned before, it's implied in the War of the Ancients trilogy that Varo'then wasn't born into the caste. Unlike the Highborne, he knows little magic. He had scars and fought physically - the Moon Guard and Azshara's personal guard were the closest types of soldiers to him, and they mostly used magic in combat, unlike Ravencrest's army and Varo'then himself. He only used magic a few times, and it was small magic at that (the narrator even mentioning that Varo'then only knew a little magic, since he was a soldier). He is described in the book as having dark hair, but he has light purple hair in-game, which is actually a Death Knight hair for male Night Elves. The narrator in the books makes it sound as if the Highborne tolerate him, and feel he is somewhat lower-class than them, but they don't outwardly disrespect him due to his position. He doesn't pay much attention to anything else other than Azshara. He was simply put into the caste because he eventually became Azshara's personal guard - much like Vashj, who seems to have also been a Highborne due to her career. However, it's the impression I got from the wording in the books, I'll admit.

    There are several Highborne with other colors of hair, but you're ignoring something here. No one is actually saying Highborne are born with silver hair and light skin. People agree with you, here. It's not a genetic trait we're talking about, but instead a cultural one. In Cataclysm and MoP Highborne have usually been depicted with light purple/bluish skin tones and white hair, simply to identify them as Highborne.

    Most pre-Cata Highborne had various hair colors, but mostly blue, teal, and white - and yes, Varo'then had purple hair in-game in Cata. Since Azshara had silver hair, and Vashj had dyed her hair silver as well (it was mentioned in the WotA trilogy), as two of the most prominent and famous Highborne, people identify those traits with that caste of people. Blizzard uses this artistically to identify many Highborne now. Lore-wise, it would make sense if it was a cultural fashion or practice, since the only remaining true Highborne were inside Eldre'thalas - one of Azshara's personal cities meant for arcanists. The Shen'dralar were once her servants, and like all other Highborne, they would do their best to please the queen in any way - including personal appearance. Even Azshara's other handmaidens in the Well of Eternity instance had silver hair, with a few other Highborne NPCs in there. Varo'then didn't seem to care what anyone thought, but he pleased Azshara by doing everything for her. Dath'Remar was meant to look unique so he would stand out in the book compared to other Highborne, as he was a fairly significant character in the last book. As mentioned, Blizzard just chooses to use Azshara's hair color now to easily identify a Highborne as opposed to a common Night Elf. Not genetic, cultural.

    As far as other appearances, arcane energy in high amounts will affect the way a mortal looks. Keristrasza was once a dark red, but after being affected with pure arcane energy through runes because of Malygos, she turned a light reddish-pink. Jaina's hair and eyes got lighter because of the pure arcane energy from the mana bomb on Theramore - it was mentioned that was the cause in Tides of War (since she was "radiating with arcane energy"). When Blood Elves couldn't control their magical addiction after the destruction of the Sunwell, they began to take in too much magical energy (or in some cases, not enough), and they would become Wretched - very pale, thin husks of a Blood Elf. However, it affects different races differently. When the blue dragons and drakes were given runes to enhance their power they turned a darker blue, for instance.

    The Highborne in Eldre'thalas didn't have as much of a means to change their appearance as drastically like Jaina or Keristrasza - they simply didn't have the high concentrations of arcane energy at once like either of those ladies. It's not impossible that during the 10,000 year span that Highborne got slightly more pale (as even Brann noted that) in their refuge in Eldre'thalas, using the arcane and fel energies of a demon to satisfy their arcane needs. It would make sense that Brann would word it as "pastier, maybe" because they got ever so slightly lighter that it doesn't look too different from a common Night Elf. However, most fans of lore know they are physically born the same as Night Elves, and they have no other special traits being born into the caste (Brann notes they have little differences to Night Elves, as well).

    Blizzard simply uses white hair, pale skin, and amber eyes to show that they're different than the common Night Elves in most cases, now. They changed the way Zandalari were portrayed in MoP, as well, completely changing the way they looked from before - it's similar to Highborne now, mostly being depicted a certain way, but not entirely. However, it's canon that Highborne are simply a caste of Night Elves, and not a different race. They may think they are in the story, but it's been stated many times that they are just regular ol' Night Elves that consider themselves special, and use magic.

    tldr - Yeah, we know they aren't born with those traits, but Blizzard depicts them that way to show their caste and culture, and how it differs from other common Night Elves.
    Last edited by Destinas; 2014-05-16 at 09:43 AM.
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    btw: Spires of Arak = Arakkoa.

  14. #2514
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Destinas
    There are several Highborne with other colors of hair, but you're ignoring something here. No one is actually saying Highborne are born with silver hair and light skin. People agree with you, here. It's not a genetic trait we're talking about, but instead a cultural one.
    Though I will stand on the side defending theory about Highbornes looking (by birth) just like other NElves, this concrete argument seems to make sense and I could believe in that. This is possible that the Highbornes dyes their hair - or maybe their hair just turn white because of stress induced by overdose of magic. Also Jaina's hair turned white because of stress - this is possible and this theme is quite popular, when for example young man who lost his wife and little children, bla, bla, goes completely white haired like old man. So, the hypothesies are:

    1. Highbornes are born with pale (gray-blue) skin and white hair what distuingish their from other Night Elves.
    2. Highbornes are born looking just like other representatives of Night Elven species, but overdose of magic dues whitening of hair and some 'arcane' marks on skin, also maybe blue/cyan eyes.
    3. Highbornes are born looking just like other NElves, but they dye their hair and paint face with silvery make-up to emphasize their status and show that they are 'moonkissed'.
    4. Highbornes are born just like other NElves and the only difference is another dressing style and make-up. Many of Night Elves are born with white or silvery hair (just like many High Elves, for example Vereesa Windrunner) because white, just like blue, teal or dark blue is very popular haircolor in their species. So, many Highbornes has white hair because just many Night Elves has white hair by their genetics.
    5. Like 4, but ingame Highbornes have white hair to show us "look, children, this is the Highborne, if you don't see his magic staff, blue robe and white hair, we add also <<The Highborne>> under his name for your sure".

    I also want to know what exactly means "pasty". I am not an english speaker, so google translate tells me that this mean something like "unhealthy looking", "sallow", "sickly" or even "morbid". It doesn't must to mean "pale". It can be also "skinny", "with bags under eyes", "without big muscles", even "hunched", etc., etc. What this description reminds you? Because for me - the Wretched Blood Elves. Ingame they look like mutants, but on arts:



    They look just "pasty". Maybe the Highbornes aren't look as drastically "pasty" like Wretched, but other Night Elves can see them in that way.

    I wonder also about lacking of 'crystal elves' ingame. They are crystal satyrs and crystal dryads, the mutants, who overdosed the pure arcane energy - and lived. Maybe they lived because they are stronger? Satyrs are creatures overfed by fel, and dryads are something like magical creatures, immortal demigods. Elves could not live such energy.

  15. #2515
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arcane-Villain View Post
    Matter of taste. Personally I prefer Night Elven beauty, they look more mature. Blood Elves (males and females) looks for me like something a'la teenage Night Elves, what can have sense because of their shorter lives.
    I see it as more of a evolution race an improved elf.

  16. #2516
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Alanar View Post
    I see it as more of a evolution race an improved elf.
    Pfft the whole lot are just silly deviations from the obviously superior troll form.

  17. #2517
    i just want tattoos and claws :P
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  18. #2518
    Quote Originally Posted by Arcane-Villain View Post
    Though I will stand on the side defending theory about Highbornes looking (by birth) just like other NElves, this concrete argument seems to make sense and I could believe in that. This is possible that the Highbornes dyes their hair - or maybe their hair just turn white because of stress induced by overdose of magic. Also Jaina's hair turned white because of stress - this is possible and this theme is quite popular, when for example young man who lost his wife and little children, bla, bla, goes completely white haired like old man. So, the hypothesies are:

    1. Highbornes are born with pale (gray-blue) skin and white hair what distuingish their from other Night Elves.
    2. Highbornes are born looking just like other representatives of Night Elven species, but overdose of magic dues whitening of hair and some 'arcane' marks on skin, also maybe blue/cyan eyes.
    3. Highbornes are born looking just like other NElves, but they dye their hair and paint face with silvery make-up to emphasize their status and show that they are 'moonkissed'.
    4. Highbornes are born just like other NElves and the only difference is another dressing style and make-up. Many of Night Elves are born with white or silvery hair (just like many High Elves, for example Vereesa Windrunner) because white, just like blue, teal or dark blue is very popular haircolor in their species. So, many Highbornes has white hair because just many Night Elves has white hair by their genetics.
    5. Like 4, but ingame Highbornes have white hair to show us "look, children, this is the Highborne, if you don't see his magic staff, blue robe and white hair, we add also <<The Highborne>> under his name for your sure".

    I also want to know what exactly means "pasty". I am not an english speaker, so google translate tells me that this mean something like "unhealthy looking", "sallow", "sickly" or even "morbid". It doesn't must to mean "pale". It can be also "skinny", "with bags under eyes", "without big muscles", even "hunched", etc., etc. What this description reminds you? Because for me - the Wretched Blood Elves. Ingame they look like mutants, but on arts:



    They look just "pasty". Maybe the Highbornes aren't look as drastically "pasty" like Wretched, but other Night Elves can see them in that way.

    I wonder also about lacking of 'crystal elves' ingame. They are crystal satyrs and crystal dryads, the mutants, who overdosed the pure arcane energy - and lived. Maybe they lived because they are stronger? Satyrs are creatures overfed by fel, and dryads are something like magical creatures, immortal demigods. Elves could not live such energy.
    "Pasty" means pale, light. Someone who doesn't go into the sun very much is pasty. I used the Wretched's skin color as an example because it does get very sickly-looking and pasty. And, Jaina's hair didn't change from stress. It changed from radiating with arcane energy, this was mentioned in the book. Her eyes also glow slightly now, as well.

    As far as crystal elves, most of the elves in the Crystalsong region of Northrend were dead by teh time the blue dragonflight invaded the area and changed the trees. The elves there are simply ghosts, whereas the satyrs and dryads were still alive.

    As far as Highborne, I just take it that they change their appearance culturally. They were known to impress Azshara and wear gaudy/colorful clothes, so their hair would easily be another means of fashion for them.
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    btw: Spires of Arak = Arakkoa.

  19. #2519
    Deleted
    Thanks for explanaition this "pasty" realy disturbed me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Destinas
    And, Jaina's hair didn't change from stress. It changed from radiating with arcane energy, this was mentioned in the book.
    Too much radiating of energy (no matter, fel or arcane) must be a big stress for organism so, Jaina's body was stressed because of overdose of arcane + her despair because of her people death.
    Also Arthas' hair turned white because of stress, but this wasn't caused by any radiation, but was purely psychical. Of course this is just my theory.

    And... who knows, maybe Wretched Blood Elves are not as bad comparison to present days Highbornes. The Quel'dorei in Azshara's time probably was very strong, powerful, beautiful etc., etc., but who knows? Ten thousand years of being banished, addicted to magic, seeking many sources of powers, energetic vampirism... it could turn then into unhealthy, sickly creatures, with pasty - grayish? skin, maybe with bags under eyes, hair whitened by continous physical and psychical stress, eyes glowing arcane, bigger in their haggard faces, not as beautiful as long ago... They can be something like "wretched Night Elves" now. Maybe not as mutated as real Wretched, but still more morbid. And, in their pride, they still can make an advance of this. They can call themselves 'moonkissed' because of they silvery look, or something, they can emphasize this by make up, dyes, jewellery etc., but they can look hideous for rest of the kaldorei.

    Of course this is also just my theory and some explanation of theories presented in this topic. But still my argument is this, that they are born identical like other Night Elves - and in fact maybe hundreds, thousands of years makes a big change in their apperance.

  20. #2520
    Quote Originally Posted by Arcane-Villain View Post
    Thanks for explanaition this "pasty" realy disturbed me.

    Too much radiating of energy (no matter, fel or arcane) must be a big stress for organism so, Jaina's body was stressed because of overdose of arcane + her despair because of her people death.
    Also Arthas' hair turned white because of stress, but this wasn't caused by any radiation, but was purely psychical. Of course this is just my theory.

    And... who knows, maybe Wretched Blood Elves are not as bad comparison to present days Highbornes. The Quel'dorei in Azshara's time probably was very strong, powerful, beautiful etc., etc., but who knows? Ten thousand years of being banished, addicted to magic, seeking many sources of powers, energetic vampirism... it could turn then into unhealthy, sickly creatures, with pasty - grayish? skin, maybe with bags under eyes, hair whitened by continous physical and psychical stress, eyes glowing arcane, bigger in their haggard faces, not as beautiful as long ago... They can be something like "wretched Night Elves" now. Maybe not as mutated as real Wretched, but still more morbid. And, in their pride, they still can make an advance of this. They can call themselves 'moonkissed' because of they silvery look, or something, they can emphasize this by make up, dyes, jewellery etc., but they can look hideous for rest of the kaldorei.

    Of course this is also just my theory and some explanation of theories presented in this topic. But still my argument is this, that they are born identical like other Night Elves - and in fact maybe hundreds, thousands of years makes a big change in their apperance.
    Well, it isn't usually stated if stress is a factor, since magic just changes appearances in WoW's lore. It's how the Well of Eternity (and Elune) changed the Night Elves from Dark Trolls, and how each Troll tribe changed (based on magical practice and location). Different magic simply changes people differently. The Dark Irons used to look like the playable dwarf skin that is gray - they changed to be darker after Ragnaros cursed them, and their eyes began to glow a molten red. As I mentioned before, Wretched and Blood Elves changed. High Elves changed when away from the second Well of Eternity and Nordrassil, etc.

    Since it was only mentioned that Jaina woke up radiating with energy, it is always stated that the magic turned her hair white, not stress on her body. It also confirms that she was overdosed with magical energy since her eyes glow a light violet color now. It was a fan theory that her hair turned white from stress on the forums until the book was actually released.

    However, as mentioned, different magic affects different people differently.
    3 hints to surviving MMO-C forums:
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    btw: Spires of Arak = Arakkoa.

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