LFR Idiocracy

[Saphyron]

I don't disagree, but when there's a wipe it shouldn't immediately be "X sucks, kick them" you should look at logs or whatever to figure out WHY you wiped. If it's something like a tank not taunting fast enough it's generally better to make it clear and say to taunt at x stacks next time (and if they continue to not do it, then kick) or tell DPS to switch or whatever, not immediately start pointing fingers and calling people out.

Sadly sometimes that does not work cause a you get a troll off-tank or b he just does not want to listen.

Let me tell you a story, granted we were almost getting him but that does not make what happened to me less of ideal.
Yes it is possible to solo tank norushen, but with my inexperience in doing so on my alt at that time which had not tanked since ToES N/MSV HC earlier this expansion I was not too keen on doing it.

DPS was not the highest the top averaged on 130k and the bottom half on 70k with me on 267k due to the massive amount of vengeance I had in the end.
That meant when we wiped it was around 1min to berserk with 5% health left on boss.

But basically the other tank went in as tank. I could tell cause he was a blood dk as me and was in blood presence. But I pulled with all my cooldowns like I normally do. Whispered the other tank before pull to taunt on 4 or whenever he went came back from inside. Yet the taunt never came. And for some reason I never got forced into the realm. So over the duration of the boss fight I kept spamming taunt in whisper/raid/say/yell and raid warning but nothing happened. I then finally died in the end with 37 stacks cause I could no longer keep myself up and ran out of defensive cd's.
But the worst thing was yet to come. When I died the other tank did not even get aggro. It was a random dps. So not only did he not taunt he did not even attack the boss. The only thing he did was to collect the spawning add (which I also did whenever I could with deathgrip.)
After the wipe I asked out in raid why he did not taunt. And his response was following: "I never 2 tank this fight cause it is not needed and the group we are in is kinda bad so I dont wanna put in any effort" (in a whisper) I then proceeded to say that the dps was not as high that one would hope so that if we wanted to kill this boss I needed him to taunt.
Sadly he then wrote out in in raid and said that I was a bad tank for not being able to solo tank it in 501 ilvl gear (mainly normal terrace and hc msv gear).
I then proceeded to get kicked cause who knows why.

I hate tanking lfr But since people don't want my dk in flex or my main priest I have to try get as much gear there.
I am currently 547 ilvl in tanking on dk and 543 in healing. Only time ill be doing those is with guild. when they do.

I hate lfr but I am forced to do it cause the elitesjerks out there who requires 550+ to join flex.

[maizensh]

I used to enjoy an LFR queue to practice some mage theorycraft.

I don't bother anymore because the trolling is absurd.

I still do it, but on MSV lfr. There are no wipes there no matter how bad the group is. And usually the group is good enough to breeze through it with your eyes closed.

The thing is that enchanters farm MSVs for crystals, so you get something like 3-6 people who are 550+ (though not always), doing absurd amounts of damage. So you can't possibly wipe.
A week ago I did Elegon, with 70% of the raid falling through the floor and we still completed it fairly easily. Another time both tanks died on spirit kings 30 secs after the pull, so I tanked it with my 560 mage , big props goes to healers (also high ilvl) who quickly realized what's going on and held me through the fight.

Though SoO lfr? Hell no! I'm not getting near that thing.

[Sansnom]

There is no reason to accept lazy play. Simple as that. There are blind players who clear normal mode.

Determination shouldn't exist at all, it was a terrible idea and queue times have only gotten worse. Stop accepting last play, and maybe players who are ready to try will come back. Either way shitter mode is failing horribly.

Now, why should I be expected to go do another mode just because I ask for people to try? You are telling people to just let everybody in LFR suck. Maybe if LFR didn't have incentives for real players to be there, they wouldn't. Maybe if there was content for alts to do they wouldn't be there. You want LFR exactly where it is then accept people telling you how badly you suk, because at 50k you aren't even playing the game.

Stop being bad

Wow. If you don't want to play and mix with the "bads", the "mouth breathers" or other color adjectives that you like to use describe the other portion of players, then don't. Don't do LFR. If you want to do LFR, then accept that you will meet these players.

Clearly LFR is not for you. If you want gear so badly that you want to do LFR, that is your choice. LFR is super easy because it is for players that are considered to be sub-par by your personal standards. Stop moaning about sub-par players in LFR doing meagre DPS because LFR is for players doing meagre DPS.

[tithian]

I see groups cutting boss phases short and 5+ DPS >150k in ToT, and meanwhile off in the world of SoO fail, had a Norushen enrage with absolutely stupendous raid damage (and heals), 300-400k/sec raid damage AVERAGE over the encounter. BARELY got Pride down in one pull. I don't know. There is something weird about the groups in SoO.

Here's my theory:

The great majority of the people doing ToT still in 5.4 understand raid progression and try to get upgrades that will help in the next tier.
The great majority of the people doing SoO are going there in full Timeless Isle gear, which has no sockets and grossly suboptimal stats, looking to get a shortcut to 528 loot. Add to that that SoO is mechanically more demanding and you get all sorts of failcascades.

[Ryme]

This is why I can't run LFR anymore. It's always been bad but I feel like this tier has made it infinitely worse.

From my experience, I can only agree. I'm also quite fond of this move, I believe you get a better end game experience with Flex.

[Deleted]

Shocking, is all I can say to that OP.

- - - Updated - - -

Bingo.

When your design philosophy is "Every single player needs to be guaranteed to see and do every single thing in the game"

what do you expect?

Oh please, enough of the demanding "exclusive" content nonsense - this is clearly just an issue of player attitude, and a system that doesn't go far enough to punish bad behavior. Stop hijacking these threads for your elitist rants, please.

[Katchii]

You must not play or avoid LFR like the plague because it is possible and happens all the time. Most of the time they get kicked after such a shitty performance but every now and then you have a guild group and you can't get rid of the fuckers.

My experience with LFR has been pretty unremarkable. There have been retards and assholes every now and then who ask for people to get kicked who aren't doing anything but delaying the pull for 5-10 seconds, or pull seriously terrible DPS/HPS, but 9/10 times thing go without much fuss for me.

Let me rephrase a little, there are always assholes, but most of the time they are just vocal douchebags who do nothing but clog chat with garbage, but the runs go relatively smoothly despite them as long as people don't start a flaming match in chat and start getting kicked.

[Nobleshield]

Again part of the attitude is that LFR attracts all the "its just LFR, I can afk and nobody will care" people because LFR has the stigma that you can AFK and nobody will care. So it's a self-defeating prophecy made worse when you wipe due to half the raid not really trying because its LFR and everybody knows LFR is a joke and you can AFK, because now guess what you wiped on easy mode, and everyone has to point fingers to alleviate the idea that your group is so bad that you wiped on the content that everybody knows is a joke and can be AFKed through (even though you really can't).

I find it almost amusing if it wasn't so laughable. If people approached LFR as actually requiring some effort, because let's face facts for a lot of people it DOES require effort; not nearly as much as Flex/Normal/Heroic obviously but it still requires you to try, then I think a lot of the finger pointing and "omg you noobs" attitudes would diminish besides the obvious trolls. Instead, people queue for LFR expecting to not have to try and still down the boss, which in some cases still happens, and then when it DOESN'T happen become accusatory to reassure them that they can do LFR without trying.

[Risale]

What strikes me is that the groups in ToT are way better geared and better performing than the ones in SoO.

I have to agree with that statement, I am gearing my shammy at the moment and ran ToT and it went smooth, had 1 wipe on Council as somebody pulled by mistake but that was the only issue with the part 1 run. hell to make it even better nobody died on Durumu and I mean not a single 1.
Now I also ran SoO and dear god the horror, it was like being surrounded by the real world equivalent of those twats in Idiocracy, I mean warlocks doing 20-30k dps with the legendary cloak and the attitude sweet jesus even LoL has never been that toxic and that is saying something.

[Deleted]

Bingo.

When your design philosophy is "Every single player needs to be guaranteed to see and do every single thing in the game"

what do you expect?

Do you think if you put "" around obvious bollocks that people won't mention it?

[Zaqwert]

Apparently thinking not everyone should just be given everything on a silver platter is "elitest" now

That's the point we're at with the entitlement generation, contending someone should earn something through effort and skill is an outrageous concept.

[Saphyron]

Apparently thinking not everyone should just be given everything on a silver platter is "elitest" now

That's the point we're at with the entitlement generation, contending someone should earn something through effort and skill is an outrageous concept.

Guess you are refering to me calling people elitest jerks cause they won't take anyone below 550 ilvl.

No matter how you put it that is elitest jerks. The bloody raid can be done with 505 ilvl I know I tanked it with that ilvl with ease and most in my group was not higher as well.

Anything requiring higher ilvl than what drops in there on average is elitest jerks.

If not refering to me sorry for writting this and go along. but my point still stands.

[Deleted]

Again part of the attitude is that LFR attracts all the "its just LFR, I can afk and nobody will care" people

It is a mindset, not a "people" thing.

[McNeil]

They should just turn LFR into a 25-man scenario by now

[Deleted]

Here's my theory:

The great majority of the people doing ToT still in 5.4 understand raid progression and try to get upgrades that will help in the next tier.
The great majority of the people doing SoO are going there in full Timeless Isle gear, which has no sockets and grossly suboptimal stats, looking to get a shortcut to 528 loot. Add to that that SoO is mechanically more demanding and you get all sorts of failcascades.

Its overgearing the content, that is all there is to it. TI 496 people do not overgear SoO, but the people who do ToT for the reagents do. ToT only requires 480. Put 25 players with 480 together and the same will happen as what happened in the first weeks of ToT: endless wipes on Horridon, Durumu, Lei Shen among others just because players are unable to follow or grasp the mechanics. I still remember that feeling where you entered on Lei Shen and you were like "damnit, only 2 stacks..."

And ToT is less forgiving on mechanics. Durumu Death Beam will one shot; Norushen's won't. Lei Shen in 480 ilvl is a lot harder than Garrosh in 500 ilvl. ToT has a lot more movement and gimmicky mechanics (hello Firelands), whereas SoO has a lot more AoE and multidot (hello Dragon Soul). Its a deja vu...

[Ronduwil]

What strikes me is that the groups in ToT are way better geared and better performing than the ones in SoO. Not just today but it has been really obvious today.

I've experienced the same. My theory is that the ToT players are mostly in it for Cloak Quest drops. These are the dedicated players who know their business and how best to go about it. SoO LFR is mostly players who just want the latest and greatest lewtz. They've been grinding away at My Little Panda Adventure Island for a few hours and are now ready to collect their SoO epix. This is what happens when raiding is the only means of collecting end game gear. You get a bunch of unskilled players participating in raids that they really have no business in. They lack the desire to perform well in there. As a healer I kind of enjoy that because it makes LFR a bit of a challenge. As a DPS, however, I have to say that the experience is far more frustrating because I have very little control over how well the group does. Even if I top the meters as DPS it's all for naught when we wipe because no healers blew cooldowns during the high raid-wide damage phases.

I see groups cutting boss phases short and 5+ DPS >150k in ToT, and meanwhile off in the world of SoO fail, had a Norushen enrage with absolutely stupendous raid damage (and heals), 300-400k/sec raid damage AVERAGE over the encounter. BARELY got Pride down in one pull. I don't know. There is something weird about the groups in SoO.

Don't forget that everyone is overgeared for ToT these days, let alone LFR ToT. They can ignore mechanics and still survive, so DPS is going to be higher. So that factors in as well.

[Misuteri]

I never experienced the LFR hell people attest to enduring when ToT was current, but since 5.4 it's gotten really awful at times for some reason. There is a ton of trolling now, and I have noticed a LOT of players pulling the "dot the boss, die on purpose, wait for the loot roll" scam. Poor healing is an issue, but it's also tanks geared in Timeless Isle stuff that is not gemmed, enchanted, or upgraded because it's "disposable" gear.

This is LFR in a nutshell right now.

496 no gems, no enchants, no burdens, just 496 gear and blue weapons and sometimes not even that.

Flex and oQueue has taken every single "good" LFR player out of the equation seemingly.

[Golden]

I liked how GC said he preferred to have implemented Flex before LFR. I doubt we'd ever have seen LFR then. If the new Group Finder system is going to be strong in 6.0 the need for LFR is lowered to such a way that LFR becomes largely redundant (if Flex has not done this already).

As someone who forms oQueue groups a lot, I don't see how anything is going to change even if they did get rid of LFR. The same behavior that happens in LFR happens in oQueue. Granted, I have the ability to get rid of them quicker but when you pull random people from a pool of several thousand, the same cyber bully BS goes on because they know we will never meet again anyway.

The only real solution, IMO, is if Blizzard gets serious about players reporting bad behavior and them actually doing something about it.

Source:

Q: So I was in a LFR [...] But lo and behold, there is no way to report a person for that anymore.
"This is a social game and millions of people are playing. It just isn't feasible to expect us to have the personnel to judge every instance of player disruption and dole out whatever punishment the reporting player feels is warranted. [...] If a player is reported for being mean by pulling a boss and then dropping group, verifying that behavior isn't a simple task."
Zarhym, Offical Forums, 6/18/13

[Misuteri]

Guess you are refering to me calling people elitest jerks cause they won't take anyone below 550 ilvl.

No matter how you put it that is elitest jerks. The bloody raid can be done with 505 ilvl I know I tanked it with that ilvl with ease and most in my group was not higher as well.

Anything requiring higher ilvl than what drops in there on average is elitest jerks.

If not refering to me sorry for writting this and go along. but my point still stands.

Sorry but I won't run Flex with less than 550 right now. Does that make me a jerk? Maybe.

However I've done enough bosses in there and enough wipes where if I do not put in those requirements I still have to eat 3 wipes and an hour on bosses.

Face it, people are bad. I've even seen 550+ groups wipe on Flex Garrosh because people can't get the roller mechanics down... yet they have the gear that shows they've done the fight.

I make no apologies for not wasting 3 hours on 3 bosses.

[Sabi]

I have to agree with others here, while I've had bad groups I've seen once where people pulled crap like this one time a paladin was BoPing a tank till the tank rage quit which after it was multiple paladins mostly because of how childish the tank was acting. I do find it funny that most if not all of these "LFR is for teh stupid" stories are from tanks who never do anything wrong and it's either the healers or DPS. RARELY do you see a story of bad tanks...and oh dear are there pleanty of them, even rarer still bad healers.

makes you wonder...