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  1. #181

    No, this is not possible. There is no "expected damage" or "expected healing" or, idk, "expected threat/positioning/cd usage".

    Ex: A dps might have been spending 90% of their time dealing with mechanics (like, say, doing the belt on siegemaster and cc'ing the bombs fixating on people). What is this person's expected damage? Is it different from someone tunneling on boss? If it isn't, then everyone will ignore mechanics and tunnel. If it is, how different should it be?

    In general, what kind of a formula would be used to determine someone's "expected damage"? Should it be lower if you used cc? No, probably not, since then people would put cc abilities in their castsequence macro and always get loot. So should it be cc abilities used on specific mobs? Uh oh, this formula would be different for every fight. What if they screwed a formula up and didn't give loot to people who still did decently?

    Don't even get me started with healing. That disc priest who is overgeared doing 70% of healing would ensure all the non-absorb healer would get no loot.

    The idea seems simple at first, because when you look at the dps doing way less than half the rest of the raid, you can't help say the word "carried" and "unfair" when they get loot. You want a way to motivate them to try. And they might be trying, they are just new (or suck really bad...bad keybinds...clicking...poor UI and bad target switching...w/e). Since there's no way to create a definitive line - "Must do 40k dps" - and no way to create a fair formula, this can never be.

  2. #182
    Dreadlord Fiana's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Copenhagen, Denmark
    Yes. Reward should be based on performance.

    Can you create an algorithm to fairly judge the performance? No. No one can and no will be able to in the nearest few decades.
    There is no single game on the market which was able to calculate your performance and it's doubtful that one will be introduced in the nearest feature.
    So just leave it as is.

    Another point is that LFR is not the real raiding. It's just a primitive carrot on stick to keep baddies in the game. They should receive their reward regardless of how bad they are. This difficulty WAS MADE FOR THEM. Real players have real difficulties.

  3. #183
    Quote Originally Posted by Giscoicus View Post
    And thats what should happen in LFR. But people in this thread seem to insist that there shouldn't be a minimum performance to get gear, and that those few over preforming should just accept the underpreformers so the underpreformers can get their rewards.
    As an over-performer who routinely does as much dps as up to ten other people per run, yes. That is what I do.

    When you enter an LFR run you are entering the world of the LFR folk. You are a stranger in a strange land. And yet your very presence disrupts the functioning of that world. If you weren't around, the raid would have to try harder, wipe more, strategize more, and eventually get it down. You, with your gear and experience, dramatically lower the minimum performance requirement across the board. It is your fault this happens, not theirs. The only way you can force them to try harder is by leaving.

    This is not to say that you shouldn't go in there. Just try having a little respect for the other people in there, even if they are going about it all wrong. You're not seeing them in their natural state. Turn off your meters if you have to. There are some perks to being a decent human being and ripping off 300k dps. For one thing, you're very likely to get a battle rez if you or a tank screws up.
    Last edited by Drilnos; 2013-12-12 at 10:10 PM.

  4. #184
    Moderator MoanaLisa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronduwil View Post
    I agreed with most of your suggestions but you lost me right there. Say I get imprisoned on the Pride fight and the group failed to free me. Why should I get a reduced chance at loot for that? Blizzard would either have to eliminate mechanics like that altogether or the penalty would have to be applied group-wide for every death. The latter would create even more problems because players would leave at the drop of a hat if they thought the group was going to reduce their chances of looting. Besides, what if taking one for the team was the difference between a kill and a wipe. Say all the healers were oom and juggernaut was at 5% but no one had eaten the mine that was about to go off and AoE half the DPS out of the fight. Should you be penalized for eating it yourself and saving the rest of the raid?
    I said in the post that I could see problems with it and this is one of them. The ideas suggested weren't supposed to be taken as a take-it-or-leave-it package either. The point to that one was to do something about people in 550+ gear--I saw one of these last weekend--that run into the fight, die nearly immediately--and then go AFK for a while. Any other suggestions as to how to deal with that would be of interest although I don't think that any of that is going anywhere beyond maybe the bit about 'Follow'. For some reason though I'm strangely attracted to the idea of an auto-res at a waypoint even though it marginalizes healers probably too much. The counter to that is that there are healers that aren't doing anything either and something like this might keep the raid alive. Seeing how it's Raid Finder, I'm on the fence about whether or not it would be completely terrible to eliminate wipes as long as sloppy play that gets you killed anyway should get you hit with something.
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