"We don't want to raid, we want dungeons"

[Caribald]

Who the hell says people don't want to raid just because they want hard 5-man dungeons? How do you reach that conclusion?

[Constraint]

We want harder dungeons

Blizz nerf dungeons, it's to hard

That's the funny thing about this game - there's actually more than one person playing. Some people want harder dungeons, some want effortless, 10 minute ones. When one side gets what they want, the other complains. Some people want a bit of both.

[Slant]

Yes, and because Blizzard tries to cater to all, they fail. Again and again. Almost any controversial change can be traced back to Blizzard trying to serve too many opinions instead of doing the sensible thing.

[Repefe]

It used to be that we ran dungeons and raids ... what the hell happened over the years is that Blizz stopped doing 5 mans and ppl are asking for them again; you know ... to play them along raids, not instead of.

[Deleted]

My personal opinion on the matter is that Dungeons are more repeatble content than Raids. They are short and you can do them as much times during the week lockout as you want, unlike the raids witch you can do once a week and when everything is on farm you can clear it 5 hours tops (worsecase scenario) and then you dont have anything to do during the week.

So what i read in "We don't want to raid, we want dungeons" sounds maybe like this - "We want to have more fast repeatble content".
For me this is the most fun part when a new expansion/patch is out - I head to do the dungeons first. They are fast. They requer a lot less people to form a suitable group. And if done right offer a nice challenge (well not anymore) on a low level like a 5 man group. They are also not so stressful as the raid encounters. Overall some people think they are even more fun that raids (I used to think so when 4.0 hited, i didnt enjoyed the "nerf"). Thats why.

Just my 2 cents

[Deleted]

Nothing has changed at all.

Since MoP there are all these ugly sprite effects on every boss that clutter the whole screen. Blizzard calls this "art", but I call it visual noise. Since then I prefer lower scale dungeons. So basically, something has changed, at least for me.

[Deleted]

I don't wanna play with peoples i don't know, despite it being an MMO, i prefer playing with friends only

[The Kao]

I saw this sentence on mmo champ and it really got me, what the hell has happend over the years?

The problem, like always, is that one person projects their opinion onto the entire community. Could as well take it as the royal "we". Good thing Blizzard knows that and doesn't allow such things to dictate everything they do with the game. They do a fairly good job actually, not listening to everything the vocal minority has to say.

[Jessicka]

They made LFR and to basically replace Dungeons. Surprisingly, those who enjoyed Dungeons as content complain that they don't get new content. It's the same thing when "casual puggers" lost 10 Normal as content; they left the game because they were left without the thing they enjoyed. You just can't remove an entire section of content and expect everyone to be happy with that decision; we saw that with Arena skirmishes too.

[Deleted]

The problem, like always, is that one person projects their opinion onto the entire community.

It works both ways, you know.
The OP you quoted also said:

Raiding is the only reason im playing this game and so i thought it was for everyone else

[Pull My Finger]

I saw this sentence on mmo champ and it really got me, what the hell has happend over the years?

Ive played WoW since late vanilla and since the start, WoW= Raiding with a large grp. This is the meaning of this game basicily, why people started to play the game to experience, what I felt everyone thought was the most fun in the game and what everyone i knew were doing when i played thru Vanilla, BC, WOTLK, Cata.
I mean u did everything else (Gearing up etc) to get to the main goal in the game (Raiding)

Raiding is the only reason im playing this game and so i thought it was for everyone else but i guess times have changed.
Its starting to feel like the community are getting too seperated in the reason behind why we are playing this game and this will start causing problems.
What really scares me tho is that many tend to want to play with less players rather than more to be able to achive greatness.

If Raids didnt exist, would there acctualy be a lot of players still playing this game?
What is the reason why you are playing WoW?

Edit: This topic is abit about the Mythic 5 Idea aswell if u havent realised it yet. Those topics are on fire right now and its from there the sentence comes. It clearly isnt what 1 people think

http://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/2...ngeons-in-wod/
http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...-or-against-it

Well good morning.

You obviously didn't realise, but there's a whole bunch of people out there who prefer 5 mans, or don't care about raiding at all. Since Vanilla. Oh my Gaawd, shocking.

[Deleted]

That stadium analogy is terrible man. I get what you're trying to say but the analogy is horrible.

National stadiums are usually a mix of money from income tax and corporate sponsor money. Club stadiums are always private ventures.

Children's fields and all weather pitches are usually built by local councils and smaller business sponsors.

They are separate entities making separate facilities, there is no "one before the other."

I played the game on levelling dungeons alone from 2006 until the release of WotlK. I enjoyed it a lot and I never touched raiding. I aspired to it (Sunwell was why I worked towards it) but I was perfectly content with what I had.

I run LFR because there are no dungeons, however the large amount of people makes it so anonymous that there is no personal responsibility and it is so easy that there is no engagement. I have to do it after catching up from a break in order to raid again because so few people run the older tier raids any more. Before I would just get into dungeons and wait for a guild that was starting fresh.

I don't find raiding fun outside of a guild. I might not necessarily be one of many here, but I really feel the game was better for casuals when dungeons were their end game rather than LFR. Especially when they were not as face roll as the Pandaria ones were. They shouldn't be part of progression for raiders. They are the best content for those who do not raid. They can reuse art elements from each tier of raids and have a similar story. Remember dungeon sets? Why not have some awesome blue sets as dungeon rewards?

I liked lfg. I know people hate it but it worked well as the skill threshold for dungeons is lower than raids. (The concept of Mythic dungeons should not be lfg though) when LFR came to be, the raids had to be gutted from a lot of things that made them raids. The experience had to be diminished in order for it to fill a wider hole.

The dungeon preoccupation people are seizing at the moment is directly associated with how unsatisfying LFR is.

[Army Dreamer]

We want both dungeons and raids. We don't want or need that many difficulty levels. LFD/LFR and Normal would be more that enough. Raid heroic mode turned on by players actions just like in Ulduar is the right way to go.

[Jessicka]

The dungeon preoccupation people are seizing at the moment is directly associated with how unsatisfying LFR is.

For me the bigger issue with LFR as a step on the gearing path is that it diminishes the scenery. I spend up to 12 hours a week on my main in Siege of Orgrimmar, is it that surprising that extending that further with LFR, and then Flex on alts isn't the most attractive of propositions?

I just levelled a Warrior to 90 last night and in spite of all this talk of getting players 'out in the world', within a couple of hours she'll be ready for sitting in the Shrine queuing for SoO LFR to get gear for some SoO Flex and then maybe some SoO Normal... It's not very worldly. That path of endgame character progression just hasn't turned out really that enticing and I've really struggled to find the motivation to actually pass that bump between 515-530 ilvl to really consider my other 7 alts for Flex as no one really does ToT anymore, except for achievements for which they require massive overgearing. :/

Some dungeons at Cata release difficulty heroics for some 522 gear would fix that for me because LFR with it's long queues, "same old" scenery, 'go through motions on autopilot' mechanics, and often questionable atmosphere just isn't what I want to spend my time doing.

[Skillslam]

It's not a very hard concept to grasp. Raiding is for scrubs who wants to hide in a larger group and get carried. 5 mans are for real gamers.

[Warlord Booty]

1 person speaks for everyone?

Pretty much.

I never played this game to raid. I raided, sure. After while, raiding was what I wanted to do least, since it was too demanding. It felt like a job when you had to do dailies for rep for gear or get flasks and pots etc. Those things were never worth it. My druid had 13K AP and you want me to spend 200g for a flask to give me 200 more for an hour? No.

- - - Updated - - -

The problem, like always, is that one person projects their opinion onto the entire community.

The worst thing is, when I read those posts, I usually disagree with what the white question/comment stated. Usually 75% of the time.

[Granyala]

I want alternate progression paths for my alts, because I do not like to raid with every character.
I'd burn out in a month if I would raid the same place with, lets say 4, different characters.

Back in the day I could play my alts in a relaxed 5man setting and only raid with my main or occasionally take a peek at a boss with an alt.

Today, my tank and heal alts are utterly useless in any 5man, because the tank either solos it anyway or the DPS kill everything before I can even attempt to tank it.

[Amerissis]

what I felt everyone thought was the most fun in the game (...) Raiding is the only reason im playing this game and so i thought it was for everyone else but i guess times have changed.

You felt wrong. I didn't even know about raiding until after 8 months of playing (started week after launch) and I didn't start raiding until Karazhan. Seeing as only a very small minority actually raided, obviously this was not 'the most fun in the game' for many people nor the reason they played the game in the first place. Many people play for lore, questing, PvP, small group content, exploring, etc. It's a bit of a lack of empathy/understanding on your end that you think everyone else likes the same thing as you do.

Thus, nothing changed. Well, not true, something did change: More people raid today then they did 'back then'. Still legions of people don't even have a max level character and even more don't raid.

[-Superman-]

Pretty sure there were blue posts/tweets about raiders, they were stating that not many people actually run normal mode, and even less in heroic (compared to the player base as a whole). LFR is an exception due to ease of access through the queue.

Pretty much this. The main reason flex was made was to encourage raiding. They are even eliminating 10/25 man and making it a single category of 20 in WoD. They may even reduce that if interest in regular raiding continues to fall. The huge fanbase no longer has 40+ hours a week to dedicate to raiding. We all grew up, got lives, and have schedules. Would not hurt my feeling at all if they overtuned a 5 man heroic and called it raiding.

[Yuna]

Pretty much this. The main reason flex was made was to encourage raiding. They are even eliminating 10/25 man and making it a single category of 20 in WoD. They may even reduce that if interest in regular raiding continues to fall. The huge fanbase no longer has 40+ hours a week to dedicate to raiding. We all grew up, got lives, and have schedules. Would not hurt my feeling at all if they overtuned a 5 man heroic and called it raiding.

Well they already stated that there will be more difficult (probably nerfed later) max lvl dungeons in WoD and it´s content-patches. As for raiding, 6 or even 9 hours a week are not that much if you are really interested. Enough people spent that time in lfr or flex and do not realise they also could raid normal/heroic in that same amount of time or they think it is too much effort.