1. #1

    Rogue PVE Madness


    I recently returned to WoWafter a fairly long break and leveled up my lock geared through SoO LFR etc and decided to level up my Rogue who hasnt been shown any love since about 2 months before WOTLK launch... I was pretty competant raiding full time from late tier 4 all the way through to twins SWP pre nerf.. i decided to switch to Lock for Wotlk to change things u a bit and we were having a bad time of it and been lock ever since...

    I am currently ilvl 500ish and on my second week of LFR and I dont know if its a L2P issue but rogue feels really really tricky at the mo.. To dps effectivley and stay alive on my lock its cake and can pretty much stroll along at a gentle pace... switch to rogue and I feel like a waiter trying to serve hot soup to 15 tables at the same time while blindfolded and on rollerskates its just chaotic.

    So I am looking for a bit of advice I have read the sticky and a few guides, my main problems seem to be seeing what is going on in the massive mess of polygons that sometimes appear when dpsing bosses with adds with aoe and effects flying around, and also the francticness of spaming BS and HM while keeping dots up i constantly find myself refreshing rupture with 2cp when it has 20 secs to go just becaus it feels like sheer chaos with my fingers dancing on keys like a sped up pianist. I fee like i am doing something wrong.. Am i not keeping an eye on energy properly as i am constantly tapping the backstab button all the time regardless of energy which seems to cause a problem when i am tapping rupture and snd as the issue for me happens then my fresh 5 cp gets replaced with a 1 or 2? doesnt seem viable to watch the energy bar fill to 35 then hit it.

    dunno really what i am asking i used to really enjoy my rogue and considered myself competant maybe i have been spoiled playing ranged and the argument is there that melee requires that little bit more skill?

    thanks in advance for any replies

  2. #2
    Sub is the hardest spec to play at the moment for rogues. If you need some help slowing it down on the flip side assassination is by far the easiest has a lot slower pace and is pretty easy to master it. Combat is somewhat in the middle with a fast pace of spam but not nearly as hard as sub and doesn't have the retarded positional requirements that sub has. But it sounds like you already have daggers and want a slower pace so I'd recommend assassination for you to place and perhaps pick up another spec later on to see how you like it (personally I favor combat).

    The whole stuck in the middle of the pack thing is something you're just going to have to deal with. I mean realistically even the ranged should be stacking up together tightly for a lot of encounters but I find that ranged have this general aversion to being in a tight clump. But really you don't need to see your character. There aren't any abilities that have a small aoe ground effect that would ever effect you and anything you need to get out of is pretty easy to see.

    If you need to move your character panel to a location closer to the middle of the screen so you can see your energy better as well or download a HuD addon that puts your vital info right in the middle of the screen. That will let you keep better track of your energy and also help if you have a problem being stuck in the middle of the pack to know if you're actually in range hitting the boss or not if you see that you're furiously spamming away and don't see your energy going down you'll know to get closer.

    As far as survivability goes rogues are the most durable non-tank in the game currently. If we ever get aggro on a meleeing mob for instance we can op evasion and effectively tank it for awhile before vanishing. We can immune most of the spells out there with CoS and completely avoid a lot of mechanics that everyone else has to deal with. We can solo soak various 1 shot mechanics with cheat death. And we have the most OP ability in the game: feint which reduces all aoe damage by a metric shit ton. While other people will get one shot by things if their gear isn't good enough a rogue can shrug off some of the hardest hitting mechanics in the game without taking barely a scratch.

    But I think most of your problems will be solved by respeccing to assassination. It'll slow down the game play a lot for you and make it a lot easier to get your head around things. The game play is waaaaay slower than any of the other two specs and you'll spend more time pooling energy and not doing anything than actually doing stuff.

  3. #3
    cool thanks for the reply... Noob admission I didnt even look at Feint... didnt that just reduce threat back in the day? or am i talking nonsense lol I will certainly be using it from now on.

    Ill have a look at assassination, The original post wasnt QQage i enjoy the rogue class and it mechanics I just assumed I was doing something wrong :P

  4. #4
    Yeah Feint is so much better nowadays especially when coupled with the talent Elusiveness. 50% AoE damage reduction + an additional 30% damage reduction is around 66% AoE damage reduction overall so it's pretty sweet. Once you get Assurance of Consequence even your cloak of shadows will be off CD every 40-45 seconds (which lines up with quite a few mechanics on some bosses i've found). Survivability wise rogues are in a amazing place right now (CoS, Feint, Evasion x 2 w/Prep, and Vanish x 2 with Prep). I also find that rogues are doing pretty competitive dps this tier as well. PvE wise i feel rogues haven't been in a better place in a long time this tier! But as Warstar said I would recommend playing Assassination as well if your finding Sub overwhelming. I personaly play Combat because that's what I love to play and have been fortunate to get the weapon drops to do so

  5. #5
    Herald of the Titans Kael's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Quote Originally Posted by Neegtop View Post
    Ill have a look at assassination, The original post wasnt QQage i enjoy the rogue class and it mechanics I just assumed I was doing something wrong :P
    When it comes to seeing what's happening, not necessarily. Animations have been increased a lot over time, and when you're in a 25-man (or higher) setting, stacked in melee, it can be really hard to even see which character is yours if you're not normally a visual person (I'm not, personally). Depending on the content you're doing (and your experience with the content), this may contribute to you feeling like a noob.

    As Warstar mentioned, sub has a lot to watch compared to assassination. If you need to focus 100% on mechanics of the fight and watching your feet, you can get away just fine in assassination with: (initially apply SnD), Dispatch > Mut combo builder, maintain rupture > envenom when at 5+ CP, use cooldowns on cooldown. This doesn't touch on any ideal circumstances or multi-targeting, but if you need a "quick and dirty" 80%+ quality, that'll get you through a fight while staring at nothing but your feet.

  6. #6
    The Patient
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Sydney, NSW
    Yeah, sub sims higher but in practice it's very hard to get good results on alot of fights due to the positional requirements and fight mechanics + the lack of AoE.

    A good spec to default to is Combat, it's a medium pace of play, really high single target and has lots of cleaving potential in SoO.

    Assassination is a very easy spec, but I've never really had a reason to play it in siege since combat has the cleave and higher single target. With that being said, alot of rogues do play it anyway, so it could be viable.

  7. #7
    If you are new to rogue, play Assassination. Otherwise play whatever spec you want because it makes no difference.
    Dropndestroy | i7-3770k 4.6Ghz | EVGA GTX 680 SC Signature+ SLI | ASUS Maximus V Formula | G.Skill 16gb 2400 | AX850

  8. #8
    Assassination does better at lower gear levels so i would recommend going that spec. Once you get AoC and 4pc t16 i would really recommend going combat its alot of fun has good single target and AOE damage. But even then all 3 specs are close at the moment with no clear winner (possibly combat because of cleave) so its up to you. Sub is the hardest to play by far because of the multiple things you need to track such as rupture/hemo/snd/Find weakness but as you play more and more you will find this gets alot easier. Generally if you just refresh everything with 5cp only the spec smooths out and is alot easier to play due to less randomness of things all dropping off at once.

    As for survivability i think rogues are kings (or queens). With feint giving 50% dmg reduction we can live through alot of things with ease. CloS is a rogues best button for "im going to cheat this mechanic." I would also recommend using the Cheat death talent, this talent is a lifesaver quite litterally. You can afford to play a bit more recklessly with this talent because you have a safety net to fall back on.

    Its not worth to constantly watch energy and wait for enough tbh. Like all classes you will do more dmg if you hit your buttons hard and fast. Both combat and sub are really spammy specs so if thats annoying you or flaring up your carpal tunnel again go with assass.

    That's my 2 cents enjoy and welcome the rogue community.

  9. #9
    High Overlord jadedfuture's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Hopefully Somewhere North
    Sub is the easiest for me to play, probably because I leveled sub.

    Practice makes perfect. You will need to leran the spec. You know warlocks, that's why it's easier for you. You obviously don't know your rogue. Learn it and it will become a lot easier.

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