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  1. #241
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    I wish there was some formula that could judge the player.

    For example
    A player in this case for example DPS, measures:
    - Dps done
    - Damage taken
    - Activity
    - Number of kills in LFR

    Then when that formula ends up in a certain number it rewards the player to become a Flex Lfr player.
    That way it could make the LFR player a LFRFlex player.

    Not sure if this is doable but would be great if there was some mechanic to measure the players.

  2. #242
    I am Murloc! Seefer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronduwil View Post
    Because Flex still requires a third party addon
    No it doesn't, Blizzard put their own version hit, hit O and go to raid then other raids and voila.
    History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people - Martin Luther King, Jr.

  3. #243
    Quote Originally Posted by Ultragrisen View Post
    I wish there was some formula that could judge the player.

    For example
    A player in this case for example DPS, measures:
    - Dps done
    - Damage taken
    - Activity
    - Number of kills in LFR
    That would probably wipe out unskilled players and afkers.
    It wont fix the attitude of players.

  4. #244
    I am Murloc! Seefer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultragrisen View Post
    I wish there was some formula that could judge the player.

    For example
    A player in this case for example DPS, measures:
    - Dps done
    - Damage taken
    - Activity
    - Number of kills in LFR

    Then when that formula ends up in a certain number it rewards the player to become a Flex Lfr player.
    That way it could make the LFR player a LFRFlex player.

    Not sure if this is doable but would be great if there was some mechanic to measure the players.
    What about Damage Done? People put too high of an emphasis on DPS and not Damage done, someone could pound for the first 30 seconds of a fight do awesome DPS die and do jack for damage.
    History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people - Martin Luther King, Jr.

  5. #245
    I wonder how many of the players who complain about people in LFR are the ones who are runining LFR w/ their judmental behavior? The only solution if for people to realize they need to stop taking LFR serious and just roll w/ it, if it has too many wipes or low dps, or something u dont like then leave, instead of flaming or being condecending to the group.

  6. #246
    Quote Originally Posted by Giscoicus View Post
    When one Ironstar, and only one, rolls over 8 people and they don't die that means it ha been nerfed to remove any expectation from the group. What they should have done is have only one engineer spawn, rotating which side it spawns on, and have the star kill people. Then there is no personal requirement for anybody, like whoever is assigned to do engineer, an am actual group requirement of moving.
    Then you should be furious about Flex too because I've seen players fail on the star time and again on Flex without any deaths to show for it.
    Quote Originally Posted by CandyCotton Marshmallows View Post
    People need to get over the gear color (and themselves). It doesn't matter, and it shouldn't matter what other players have either. Worry about your damn self. Live your life by that. If you want to concern yourself with someone else, then worry about HELPING them, not putting them down or making sure you stand out as better than them.
    Maybe the game would be better with more low DPS nice guys and fewer high DPS jerks? -- Ghostcrawler, Twitter, 6/29/13

  7. #247
    Quote Originally Posted by sozo View Post
    I wonder how many of the players who complain about people in LFR are the ones who are runining LFR w/ their judmental behavior? The only solution if for people to realize they need to stop taking LFR serious and just roll w/ it, if it has too many wipes or low dps, or something u dont like then leave, instead of flaming or being condecending to the group.
    just be accepting of bad play and deal with the time spent in queue, repair bills and the debuff for leaving

    It's not judgemental. When you are doing 60k dps you are WAY below where you can be and that level of dps isn't enough to beat the enrage on most encounters. There is such thing as bad dps Blizzard doors have enrage mechanics and fights that are dps checks like Norushn.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronduwil View Post
    Then you should be furious about Flex too because I've seen players fail on the star time and again on Flex without any deaths to show for it.
    Except that it IS fatal on Flex and I've seen it kill many people. There is a reason I ask for AoTC for heirloom farm groups.

  8. #248
    Here is how to fix it. Don't do it.

    Have an alternative to it if you hate doing LFR (I.E future hard Heroic Dungeons) so I never have to step into that cesspool of stupidity.

  9. #249
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    Blizzard has only recently been getting their collective heads around the massive social problems in the game. Still a long way to go and I'm not certain that they understand what to do about it.
    It's because they take too much of a laissez faire approach to player interactions. In Guild Wars about 75% of the crap I see coming over trade chat daily would be a perma-ban. Of course, they can afford to do this because they're not dependent on subscriptions, but the result was that 90% of the players in Guild Wars were polite and pleasant to interact with. In WoW pretty much anything goes. Hate speech, public sexting, and blatant trolling get a slap on the wrist at the very most. Blizzard says that we just don't see the consequences, and that may be true, but when you see the same people time and again engaging in the same behavior you can only conclude that there are no consequences. There's also the fact that the right-click "Report for Language" option only shows up sporadically. I still can't predict when it is and isn't available. Even if I click that I get the feeling it goes into the void. Blizzard even came right out on their forums and threw their hands up in the air saying, "Well, we can't police every player interaction." In other words, if we can't do it right just fuck it and don't do it at all. This is why the community is in the state it is today, not because of LFR.

    Besides, they don't have to police everything. They already have mature language filters. Just redirect questionable statements from public channels and public (LFR/LFD) instances to a log file and have one guy look over them to verify whether or not the interaction was appropriate. If Blizzard would just spend a few months focusing on player interactions I think that they would find the problem quickly resolve itself and then they wouldn't have so many player interactions to police because the culture will change for the better.

    Honestly the same restrictions should apply to LFD and LFR as supposedly apply to public channels. Unfortunately right now it feels like they don't give a crap about either.
    Quote Originally Posted by CandyCotton Marshmallows View Post
    People need to get over the gear color (and themselves). It doesn't matter, and it shouldn't matter what other players have either. Worry about your damn self. Live your life by that. If you want to concern yourself with someone else, then worry about HELPING them, not putting them down or making sure you stand out as better than them.
    Maybe the game would be better with more low DPS nice guys and fewer high DPS jerks? -- Ghostcrawler, Twitter, 6/29/13

  10. #250
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronduwil View Post
    It's because they take too much of a laissez faire approach to player interactions. In Guild Wars about 75% of the crap I see coming over trade chat daily would be a perma-ban. Of course, they can afford to do this because they're not dependent on subscriptions, but the result was that 90% of the players in Guild Wars were polite and pleasant to interact with. In WoW pretty much anything goes. Hate speech, public sexting, and blatant trolling get a slap on the wrist at the very most. Blizzard says that we just don't see the consequences, and that may be true, but when you see the same people time and again engaging in the same behavior you can only conclude that there are no consequences. There's also the fact that the right-click "Report for Language" option only shows up sporadically. I still can't predict when it is and isn't available. Even if I click that I get the feeling it goes into the void. Blizzard even came right out on their forums and threw their hands up in the air saying, "Well, we can't police every player interaction." In other words, if we can't do it right just fuck it and don't do it at all. This is why the community is in the state it is today, not because of LFR.

    Besides, they don't have to police everything. They already have mature language filters. Just redirect questionable statements from public channels and public (LFR/LFD) instances to a log file and have one guy look over them to verify whether or not the interaction was appropriate. If Blizzard would just spend a few months focusing on player interactions I think that they would find the problem quickly resolve itself and then they wouldn't have so many player interactions to police because the culture will change for the better.

    Honestly the same restrictions should apply to LFD and LFR as supposedly apply to public channels. Unfortunately right now it feels like they don't give a crap about either.
    Public sexting? Yea no. Your reports don't go to the void they just don't punish people for one or two reports because that means that just a few people are upset. Trade chat is a open discussion channel as sometimes stuff will come up, and people will have varying opinions on it, and you have to accept that. There ARE language rules but some words are allowed, especially since they appear ingame. If I'm not mistaken bitch comes up a lot. Every weeken on the forums the same DK starts a thread about why he loves to gank and every weekend people report him. There isn't a rule against hurting up your feelings in chat by saying something you don't like, and that is what people want inforced.

  11. #251
    tbh i think lfr is fine. if you want to raid in a more competitive / friendly / competent environment, get into flex + normal. you don't have to do lfr.

  12. #252
    Quote Originally Posted by saucyboy View Post
    tbh i think lfr is fine. if you want to raid in a more competitive / friendly / competent environment, get into flex + normal. you don't have to do lfr.
    Of course nobody has to do anything. That doesn't change the fact that LfR ha Ben crammed into hear progression in as many places as possible, contributes to item level inflation and drops tier/trinkets better than the ast patch heroic ones.

  13. #253
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    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Yup. More than 3/4 of those who were doing LFR in the prior tier (and possibly more, if most of those Garrosh kills are non-LFR raiders) have said "screw this, not going to bother" about clearing SoO.

    LFR has failed to keep people engaged in the last tier, as some of us had long been predicting. I think the Q4 sub numbers are going to be really bad.

    The last tier of Cataclysm, you had more people clearing DS on LFR. Imagine how badly subs would have tanked then if LFR had been like SoO.
    T16 is a pain in the ass in LFR. T15 was, on the other hand, except for Megaera and the trash in the first wing, a very LFR-friendly tier.

    Everyone who's done the second wing of T16 knows it's a slog, but at least the worst of the trash inside Org was nerfed.

    So, then, you come to the fourth wing of T16. You have all that trash. Hopefully Blackfuse dies in one shot. Then some bug trash where a bunch of people are going to die but hopefully there won't be more wipes. Then hopefully Paragons die in one shot.

    Then, most of an hour into things if they have gone well. you are standing in front of the giant hallway of "trash that needs CC" looking at squares and moons and thinking "Oh great now the fun is going to start," and hopefully there is actually some CC that doesn't get broken. If you have seen this go badly before, you will have a powerful urge to leave group the moment you look into this hallway.

    Then, once you get through the hallway, perhaps without dying, perhaps after five wipes and 45 minutes and several changes of group membership, you get to Garrosh. Where basically the only reward is, once he's dead, the instance is over. NO HEIRLOOMS FOR YOU despite what is honestly a pretty arduous voyage to get here.

    But, you might think, hey, I could just leave right now, and the instance would ALSO be over.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Giscoicus View Post
    Of course nobody has to do anything. That doesn't change the fact that LfR ha Ben crammed into hear progression in as many places as possible, contributes to item level inflation and drops tier/trinkets better than the ast patch heroic ones.
    EVERY tier drops tier/trinkets better than the last patch heroic ones. If Flex is so awesome, go get them there? Normal's on a different lockout ... get them there too?

  14. #254
    Quote Originally Posted by satimy View Post
    I think LFR is a good service to the game by allowing people to see extremely watered down versions of fights and of course seeing the Lore.

    The biggest issues I have with lfr are
    1. People have basically 0 accountability
    2. Que times are horrendous

    my suggestions
    1. Offer tanks and healers some incentive to que, no the satchel is horrible. One idea is for every wing of lfr you tank or heal you can be placed in the front of the line as a dps toon.

    You tank Vale of Eternal on your warrior
    you then que for Vale of Eternal on your druid dps and skip the line

    or give an increased loot drop for healers and tanks nothing major

    or double valor for tanks/healers



    As for accountability, the vote kick rule basically ensures every group will have trolls or afkers. People should be able to vote kick whenever they want. The dps in the SOO tier has been 20k-40k lower than it was last patch. If someone wants to roll in and do 20k dps than the group should be able to kick them.
    As a Tank going through LFR right now to try and get this Legendary done I can say that for me, there's pretty much nothing outside of a free subscription that would get me to go back there. It's not the ease of it, it's not even that people are bad. It's because people are just down right nasty. I don't mind Tanking with a few badly performing people in there as long as Enrage times are met. Hell, our guild is one of the very few that will try and take "bad" players and help them out by going over logs, working with them on their rotations, etc.

    LFR just isn't a nice place at all mainly due to the way people treat each other. it's not even directed at me but just seeing what people say to each other makes it extremely hard to want to go there.

  15. #255
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    So here's a funny thing.

    Where is the only place in LFR I have seen a pair of boomkins doing 250-350k DPS, APIECE?

    (a) MSV Wing 1
    (b) SoO Wing 4

    You guess right, MSV Wing 1.

    I feel like Blizzard really fucked the LFR crowd over by making the earlier tiers a more fun playground. And I do it too. I would MUCH rather go play MSV LFR for "fun" on an overgeared character than set foot in the epic trash and trolling of SoO LFR.

  16. #256
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mokoshne View Post
    this is a really good soloution as long as it was super easy to find flexi runs through an Oqueue or blizzard group finder.
    There's a very large difference between being guaranteed a spot in a run through matchmaking versus getting a spot in a flex raid. Especially given the rather ridiculous requirements that most groups seem to have. If the answer to this is to "Make your own group" then that's not a solution that 'fixes' Raid Finder in the least. People theoretically can do that now for both Flex and Raid Finder.
    "...money's most powerful ability is to allow bad people to continue doing bad things at the expense of those who don't have it."

  17. #257
    WoW needs to add more options and more avenues for personal progression that doesn't rely on other players exclusively.

    LFR gets all of the "bads" because there is no further avenue for advancement after a week of heroics. Timeless Isle was a horrible idea because it allows bads to gear up to LFR without even having to learn heroics! Not like heroics require any learning these days, another failure of MoP.

    LFR should be for people who like to and want to raid, but can't commit the consistent time and like that on-demand content, not just "everyone who wants to continue to progress their character."

    If you could get LFR level gear in 5-man content, or through solo content that actually presented some challenge (like a re-worked Proving Grounds system), I would STILL do LFR for the lore, to see the fights/bosses, and because I like large-group content in MMOs.

  18. #258
    Quote Originally Posted by Normie View Post
    But, you might think, hey, I could just leave right now, and the instance would ALSO be over.
    And from there it's a short step to "if I don't run it again, it's also over. And why exactly do I want to run it again?"
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "The bit about hardcore players not always caring about the long term interests of the game is spot on." -- Ghostcrawler
    "Do you want a game with no casuals so about 500 players?"

  19. #259
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    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    And from there it's a short step to "if I don't run it again, it's also over. And why exactly do I want to run it again?"
    I really think Blizzard can do better than providing players with something that has them thinking "I sure wish this was over."

  20. #260
    Quote Originally Posted by heerobya View Post
    WoW needs to add more options and more avenues for personal progression that doesn't rely on other players exclusively.

    LFR gets all of the "bads" because there is no further avenue for advancement after a week of heroics. Timeless Isle was a horrible idea because it allows bads to gear up to LFR without even having to learn heroics! Not like heroics require any learning these days, another failure of MoP.

    LFR should be for people who like to and want to raid, but can't commit the consistent time and like that on-demand content, not just "everyone who wants to continue to progress their character."

    If you could get LFR level gear in 5-man content, or through solo content that actually presented some challenge (like a re-worked Proving Grounds system), I would STILL do LFR for the lore, to see the fights/bosses, and because I like large-group content in MMOs.
    Gear is a means to and end. Personal progression such as raising rank was done in the Brawlers Guild and reputation grinds. The issue with other gearing paths, especially solo ones, is that they are easier than the other paths and generally leave them dead. Solo content should never reward gear near group content because it just cannot be made as hard as group content, it either ends up very spec/gear dependent or it would need to be tuned to match each of the 34 specs differently. 5-man content doesn't have the weekly loot lockout, which means it is faster to gear through it than LFR. 5-mans giving the same as or better gear than LFR would kill LFR in a day. Those who use it to "see the content" do it once at the start of the patch and never again.

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