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  1. #461
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronduwil View Post


    You come off as an overgrown bully who is well on his way to pissing off the wrong person. I hope you reform your ways before that happens.
    internet tough guy ^
    There is no Bad RNG just Bad LTP

  2. #462
    Quote Originally Posted by judgementofantonidas View Post
    internet tough guy ^
    Hey now, Ronduwil is our great and wise elder. We should all follow his inane advice so that our lives can be fuller and richer and we can stop playing such a silly game.

    :P

  3. #463
    Quote Originally Posted by cabyio View Post
    Hey now, Ronduwil is our great and wise elder. We should all follow his inane advice so that our lives can be fuller and richer and we can stop playing such a silly game.
    You're the one who suggested that if you can't play the game well you shouldn't play at all. I was merely pointing out that recreational activities are just that: recreational. I never suggested to anyone that they quit playing any game that they enjoy. I'm sure that many people, raider and non-raider alike, enjoy playing WoW.
    Last edited by Ronduwil; 2013-12-23 at 07:43 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by CandyCotton Marshmallows View Post
    People need to get over the gear color (and themselves). It doesn't matter, and it shouldn't matter what other players have either. Worry about your damn self. Live your life by that. If you want to concern yourself with someone else, then worry about HELPING them, not putting them down or making sure you stand out as better than them.
    Maybe the game would be better with more low DPS nice guys and fewer high DPS jerks? -- Ghostcrawler, Twitter, 6/29/13

  4. #464
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronduwil View Post
    You're the one who suggested that if you can't play the game well you shouldn't play at all. I was merely pointing out that recreational activities are just that: recreational. I never suggested to anyone that they quit playing any game that they enjoy. I'm sure that many people, raider and non-raider alike, enjoy playing WoW.
    You're the one that seems to constantly have issues with people who enjoy taking their entertainment seriously. Also, not speaking for everyone, you come off as very condescending most of the time. As if you have some secret to a great life and you are beneficent enough to share it with us.

    You champion people who like to "play casually" and say that they should be able to play how they wish, then in the same breath you try to belittle those of us who enjoy taking the game seriously.

  5. #465
    Quote Originally Posted by cabyio View Post
    You're the one that seems to constantly have issues with people who enjoy taking their entertainment seriously. Also, not speaking for everyone, you come off as very condescending most of the time. As if you have some secret to a great life and you are beneficent enough to share it with us.

    You champion people who like to "play casually" and say that they should be able to play how they wish, then in the same breath you try to belittle those of us who enjoy taking the game seriously.
    I'm sorry if I come off that way, but I honestly don't mean to belittle anyone. I take the game far more seriously than most, so I would only be belittling myself. However, by that same token, I'm self-aware enough to realize that I am outside of the norm in that regard. I get really irritated when I see the minority portion of my community berating the majority for not sharing in their zealous pursuit of gaming excellence. If you enjoy heroic raiding, by all means enjoy it. Just don't go calling other players "bad" or "lazy" or "entitled" or any of the other ridiculous labels that are regularly applied to players who would rather treat the game like a game and not like a job.

    In MoP Blizzard threw away all forms of end game outside of raiding. Congratulations. Raiders won. But that's not enough for some people. Apparently they have to do away with LFR as well so that casual players have nothing left to do in the game. Somehow this will make the game more successful. This is the point of view that I oppose, but somehow that belittles you. Seriously?
    Quote Originally Posted by CandyCotton Marshmallows View Post
    People need to get over the gear color (and themselves). It doesn't matter, and it shouldn't matter what other players have either. Worry about your damn self. Live your life by that. If you want to concern yourself with someone else, then worry about HELPING them, not putting them down or making sure you stand out as better than them.
    Maybe the game would be better with more low DPS nice guys and fewer high DPS jerks? -- Ghostcrawler, Twitter, 6/29/13

  6. #466
    Spam Assassin! MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    Let's knock it off with personal insults and remarks. You can continue to discuss your differences via PM if it's going to be a bunch of "Well, you said this..." or you can leave that out and stick to the basics. #468-#471 have nothing at all to do with Raid Finder. Thanks.
    Last edited by MoanaLisa; 2013-12-23 at 09:33 PM.
    "...money's most powerful ability is to allow bad people to continue doing bad things at the expense of those who don't have it."

  7. #467
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronduwil View Post
    There are several reasons for this:

    1. You're going to run into more trolls in LFR than in LFD. Assume a certain percentage of the population trolls. For the sake of illustrating my point we'll set that number at 4%. With 25 people you're going to average one troll every run. With 5 people you're going to average one troll every four runs. So on average 75% of your dungeon runs will be pleasant. In LFR, however, most of your runs are going to have at least one troll.

    2. Dealing with a troll in LFD is much easier than dealing with one in LFR. LFR requires a minimum of 5 people to initiate a VTK. LFD requires just one. Once the vote is initiated most players will buy into it, but for some reason players are too reluctant/lazy to initiate a vote unless things have really gone downhill.

    3. Fewer conflicting strategies. This is similar in concept to the first point I made. With fewer people it's less likely that you'll get two players with conflicting strategies. A classic example of failures due to conflicting strategies has cropped up on the Garrosh fight lately. There's a group of players that realized that it's easier in LFR to stack and heal through the desecrated weapon than it is to have everyone running back and forth to avoid it. However, most tanks coming from normal raids are unaware of this strategy and absolutely refuse to buy into it. The result? Half the players park in the melee stack and the other half attempt to run between markers, but with half the raid parked in the desecrate and the tanks running every which way to avoid the desecrate, the whole thing turns into one big clusterfuck. The result? The group wipes. In LFD this is far less likely because you only have to convince one or two people to try a new strategy, as opposed to having to convince 12 or 13 others.

    This is partially why I don't think that LFR has worsened the community. It's simply exposed players to more of it and has therefore lowered opinions. The community was always as bad as it is now. Many players simply didn't realize it.
    So the experience is driven by other players in the raid not giving a damn ?
    My point remains, the issue is player created.
    You just proved my point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mokoshne View Post
    I think LFR should probably be removed and let Flexi be the new method of "seeing" content. If you have to make Flexi a little easier, then go ahead.

    I also think that you should be only eligable for loot off bosses once a week. You can do flexi/normal/heroic but you can only loot a boss once. i think this would make the game better overall.
    Not doing anything to solve the issue.
    Flex while accommodating those who might otherwise be stuck in LFR due to time commitments, it still requires the raid leader and other members to be willing.
    It still requires those in the raid to give a damn.
    Something you don't see very often.

    LFR is here to stay because the playerbase made it necessary.
    Flex is resolving an entirely different issue altogether.
    Last edited by ComputerNerd; 2013-12-24 at 06:32 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    Your forgot to include the part where we blame casuals for everything because blizzard is catering to casuals when casuals got jack squat for new content the entire expansion, like new dungeons and scenarios.
    Quote Originally Posted by Reinaerd View Post
    T'is good to see there are still people valiantly putting the "Ass" in assumption.

  8. #468
    Herald of the Titans Pancaspe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiago View Post
    Nothing personal, but I'll never step into LFR to be treated like shit and/or be kicked for the most ridiculous reasons.

    Sorry, but I don't see why LFR is still in game with Flex being a casual fun way to raid.
    You need LFR as a gear stepping stone to Flex.
    @Ghostcrawler:Some advice: [My pet issue] is why there were sub losses is one of the weaker arguments players use. Players don't have that data.

  9. #469
    Quote Originally Posted by ComputerNerd View Post
    So the experience is driven by other players in the raid not giving a damn ?
    My point remains, the issue is player created.
    You just proved my point.
    All group experiences are driven by other players' attitudes. Not giving a damn is not the same as not caring enough to devote hours of research to content prior to engaging in it. Contrary to what you're suggesting, players in LFR typically want to play well and beat the encounters. This myth of AFKing your way to loot is just that. The typical LFR player wants to do well, but they want to do so through in-game experience rather than by studying strategies outside of the game. If you don't like that then don't run random content. Form your own groups instead.

    Quote Originally Posted by ComputerNerd View Post
    Flex while accommodating those who might otherwise be stuck in LFR due to time commitments, it still requires the raid leader and other members to be willing.
    You can still AFK your way to loot in Flex. The difference is that it only takes one vote kick (the leader's) to get rid of that player. If you have a good raid leader (and that's not guaranteed if you're running Flex through the other raids browser or through oqueue) then he'll kick the player, but even that's not a guarantee.

    Quote Originally Posted by ComputerNerd View Post
    It still requires those in the raid to give a damn.
    Something you don't see very often.
    I'm willing to bet that 90% of the players in LFR are trying their best. Their best just isn't that great because in many cases it's players' first encounter with raid content. I actually see players giving a damn most of the time.

    Quote Originally Posted by ComputerNerd View Post
    LFR is here to stay because the playerbase made it necessary.
    LFR is here to stay because the alternatives to it are designed to keep players engaged for a week or two at most. That was Blizzard's call. Most players were perfectly happy with heroics prior to LFR. Blizzard chose to discard them in favor of raids. I'm still trying to figure out why.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Pancaspe View Post
    You need LFR as a gear stepping stone to Flex.
    Heck, it's gotten to the point where you can't even run Flex without having done a few normal raids and/or run Flex with your guild. I have a 531 ilevel Holy Paladin and I spent hours listed for Flex in the raid browser with no takers. The one guy I did talk to said they wanted 540+ and apologized for not being able to invite me. I finally got invited to a normal mode raid that was a complete failure because the leader wanted to two-heal Norushen and expected my capeless 531 pally to solo heal with 75% corruption while the other healer took the orb first. Then he accused me of putting out "no healing whatsoever," prompting me to spam the meter indicating that I was still pulling 100K HPS in my crap gear. One other member who claimed to have two-healed the fight many times in heroic leaped to my defense, stating that solo healing that fight was a bitch and that he shouldn't have healers taking orbs if we're going to be two-healing. There are idiots everywhere, not just in LFR.

    If not for LFR I would have spent my week parked in the city waiting for someone to advertise or for the raid browser to pop. It must be nice to be able to run Flex Tuesdays and Wednesdays, because apparently that's when most of the good runs happen.
    Last edited by Ronduwil; 2013-12-28 at 10:30 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by CandyCotton Marshmallows View Post
    People need to get over the gear color (and themselves). It doesn't matter, and it shouldn't matter what other players have either. Worry about your damn self. Live your life by that. If you want to concern yourself with someone else, then worry about HELPING them, not putting them down or making sure you stand out as better than them.
    Maybe the game would be better with more low DPS nice guys and fewer high DPS jerks? -- Ghostcrawler, Twitter, 6/29/13

  10. #470
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronduwil View Post
    Heck, it's gotten to the point where you can't even run Flex without having done a few normal raids and/or run Flex with your guild. I have a 531 ilevel Holy Paladin and I spent hours listed for Flex in the raid browser with no takers. The one guy I did talk to said they wanted 540+ and apologized for not being able to invite me. I finally got invited to a normal mode raid that was a complete failure because the leader wanted to two-heal Norushen and expected my capeless 531 pally to solo heal with 75% corruption while the other healer took the orb first. Then he accused me of putting out "no healing whatsoever," prompting me to spam the meter indicating that I was still pulling 100K HPS in my crap gear. One other member who claimed to have two-healed the fight many times in heroic leaped to my defense, stating that solo healing that fight was a bitch and that he shouldn't have healers taking orbs if we're going to be two-healing. There are idiots everywhere, not just in LFR.

    If not for LFR I would have spent my week parked in the city waiting for someone to advertise or for the raid browser to pop. It must be nice to be able to run Flex Tuesdays and Wednesdays, because apparently that's when most of the good runs happen.
    It probably because no one actually uses the raid browser. You would have much better luck using OpenRaid or OQueue.

  11. #471
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    lfr is not broken, it works quite well. Because the player base can be so shoddy, doesn't mean Blizzard's LFR is broken.
    Your mother was a hamster, and your father smelled of elderberries.

  12. #472
    Quote Originally Posted by cabyio View Post
    It probably because no one actually uses the raid browser. You would have much better luck using OpenRaid or OQueue.

    I've used the raid browser quite a bit for Celestials and Ordos. Flex, I haven't tried; I wouldn't be surprised if it didn't work well for that.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "The bit about hardcore players not always caring about the long term interests of the game is spot on." -- Ghostcrawler
    "Do you want a game with no casuals so about 500 players?"

  13. #473
    Quote Originally Posted by Pancaspe View Post
    You need LFR as a gear stepping stone to Flex.
    absolutely incorrect. as an experiment I leveled yet another prot pally. He is 510 ilvl and one day old at 90 now. I can easily enter flex at that level.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronduwil View Post


    Heck, it's gotten to the point where you can't even run Flex without having done a few normal raids and/or run Flex with your guild. I have a 531 ilevel Holy Paladin and I spent hours listed for Flex in the raid browser with no takers.
    The answer is fairly strait forward, and has been repeated a number of times on this thread. If you are below what is being asked for then form your own, but in the same vent do not expect raiders to join your flex and provide a carry.

    Secondly why are you not taking low item level players from your guild and doing flex? I will not look twice at a 530 ilvl player outside of my guild but will OFTEN build a group around the very same crap level type of player if they are in guild and I know them, they show potential, and I want to throw gear their way.
    There is no Bad RNG just Bad LTP

  14. #474
    Quote Originally Posted by judgementofantonidas View Post
    Secondly why are you not taking low item level players from your guild and doing flex? I will not look twice at a 530 ilvl player outside of my guild but will OFTEN build a group around the very same crap level type of player if they are in guild and I know them, they show potential, and I want to throw gear their way.
    I explicitly said that you can run flex by either outgearing the content or by running with your guild, so you basically repeated what I had said. If my guild's schedule coincided with mine I wouldn't be trying to pug flex. Also, this is an alt. When I run content with my guild it's usually on my main. But those are personal considerations.

    Running content that drops 540 gear in 530 gear isn't getting "carried." The raid leader exclusively accepting players who outgear the flex content is the one asking for a carry. In your case you admitted to recruiting geared people outside of your guild to "carry" the people in your guild. However, I still contend that if your players are in 530 gear they're not being carried through flex. 530 is more than enough ilevel to contribute to a flex run.
    Quote Originally Posted by CandyCotton Marshmallows View Post
    People need to get over the gear color (and themselves). It doesn't matter, and it shouldn't matter what other players have either. Worry about your damn self. Live your life by that. If you want to concern yourself with someone else, then worry about HELPING them, not putting them down or making sure you stand out as better than them.
    Maybe the game would be better with more low DPS nice guys and fewer high DPS jerks? -- Ghostcrawler, Twitter, 6/29/13

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