Shaco rework confirmed?

[Deleted]

So accordingly to Beautiful Korean's Shaco guide at solomid's website, he states that Shaco is getting a rework pretty soon, witch is the reason he isnt updating his guide. But I've never heard anything of this from Riot.
Anyone know something about this? When will it happen?

Shaco is balanced as he is now, it is easy to counter him etc. He is just hard to master at lategame.
Wouldnt other champions need reworks more than him?
It sucks that they are reworking my long-time favourite champion.

[Dundebuns]

The only kit reworks, partial or otherwise, that I know of are Skarner, Xerath and Rengar. No others have been mentioned so far.

[Deleted]

The only kit reworks, partial or otherwise, that I know of are Skarner, Xerath and Rengar. No others have been mentioned so far.

Sion :P

/10chars

[Axethor]

They are reworking him. Morello left a few comments about it a few weeks ago. Only thing we know for sure is his ult got updated to be similar to what it is now, but more awesome.

[Duilliath]

They are will be reworking him. Morello left a few comments about it a few weeks ago. Only thing we know for sure is his ult got updated to be similar to what it is now, but more awesome.

Fixt.

What Morello stated is that Shaco is one of the champs most in need of a kit update/overhaul.

[Editos]

Sion :P

/10chars

Oh man, i really hope they rework Sion >.<

[Karrotlord]

Oh man, i really hope they rework Sion >.<

From what I heard they are gonna remove his shield and stun and make him a straight lifesteal tank. So basically no more AP Sion.

[Duronos]

Fixt.

What Morello stated is that Shaco is one of the champs most in need of a kit update/overhaul.

It's also been stated by a few Diamond 1 Shaco players that his Q and W and staying the same and it's going to be his E and R that they are changing and they have currently tested it out but can't say much else.

So yes, they are currently reworking him and I don't understand why Riot gets so annoyed over Shaco, he's not even that good anymore, they nerfed him to the ground yet they still say he's toxic... That fucking word needs to die, Shaco is based off of outsmarting opponents, of course he's going to be everyone's fucking target for hate much like Teemo is. How about Lee Sin? He can do things that outsmart people but nobody complains because he's just a normal man with an Asian theme to him.

With that said, if Shaco's E is toxic then Lee Sin jumping to wards is toxic.

[SargorVirm]

E is decieve is it not? Atm due to the vision changes it is a toxic skill. Unlike twitch, rengar and eve, it has no windup time. Instant stealth and a jump at the same time. Makes his split push impossible to catch at. If you catch him out, deceives away.
He isn't strong right now because, imo, that ability is ALOT of his power budget. Just because he isn't HUGE WIN RATE OP GOD! doesn't mean an ability is hazardous to the game.

[Thallidomaniac]

E is decieve is it not? Atm due to the vision changes it is a toxic skill. Unlike twitch, rengar and eve, it has no windup time. Instant stealth and a jump at the same time. Makes his split push impossible to catch at. If you catch him out, deceives away.
He isn't strong right now because, imo, that ability is ALOT of his power budget. Just because he isn't HUGE WIN RATE OP GOD! doesn't mean an ability is hazardous to the game.

Q is Deceive. The devs also have a problem with E having a permaslow on autoattacks.

[Torgal]

Shaco is a fun champion, I wouldn't mind if they reworked E and R to give it more flavor (even if I did like R). Though I do hope they don't end up making it another generic CC and burst.

[SargorVirm]

Ahhh... My bad. All inherent perma slows are deemed "toxic" in riots eyes.. They are reworking the "perma slow" out of skarner as well iirc

[Thallidomaniac]

Ahhh... My bad. All inherent perma slows are deemed "toxic" in riots eyes.. They are reworking the "perma slow" out of skarner as well iirc

That's also why Frozen Mallet is garbage now.

[SargorVirm]

"no counterplay" i believe is the reason for it. Which i do believe is an inherent flaw in the set up anyway.... thats why champs that have said "perma slows" are weak as hell in all other scenarios. which is why reworks are happening

[Duilliath]

It's also been stated by a few Diamond 1 Shaco players that his Q and W and staying the same and it's going to be his E and R that they are changing and they have currently tested it out but can't say much else.

So yes, they are currently reworking him and I don't understand why Riot gets so annoyed over Shaco, he's not even that good anymore, they nerfed him to the ground yet they still say he's toxic... That fucking word needs to die, Shaco is based off of outsmarting opponents, of course he's going to be everyone's fucking target for hate much like Teemo is. How about Lee Sin? He can do things that outsmart people but nobody complains because he's just a normal man with an Asian theme to him.

With that said, if Shaco's E is toxic then Lee Sin jumping to wards is toxic.

That's because you have no fucking clue what being toxic is.

You've played this game for ages. You're not a lvl 3 player, who has a Shaco appear out of nowhere on him, when he runs to chase after the stupid clown gets feared by a jack in the box, takes more damage when he runs away from him (backstab passive), can't escape because of permaslow and when he finally gets round to fighting Shaco, the damn thing disappears and then there's two of them. One of which will explode on him and deal damage.

Every single champion in League is obvious and clear. If you melee Darius, you start bleeding and he'll chop you in half. If you let Ashe hit you, you get slowed and you take damage.

A lot of the normal responses (I can't win, better run) actually lead to -bigger- problems with Shaco. He's completely counter intuitive.

How strong a champion is is completely unrelated to how *toxic* they are.

Lee Sin ward jumping is not toxic. It just shows that you haven't got the foggiest idea what that term actually entails.

[Simulacrum]

That's because you have no fucking clue what being toxic is.

You've played this game for ages. You're not a lvl 3 player, who has a Shaco appear out of nowhere on him, when he runs to chase after the stupid clown gets feared by a jack in the box, takes more damage when he runs away from him (backstab passive), can't escape because of permaslow and when he finally gets round to fighting Shaco, the damn thing disappears and then there's two of them. One of which will explode on him and deal damage.

Every single champion in League is obvious and clear. If you melee Darius, you start bleeding and he'll chop you in half. If you let Ashe hit you, you get slowed and you take damage.

A lot of the normal responses (I can't win, better run) actually lead to -bigger- problems with Shaco. He's completely counter intuitive.

How strong a champion is is completely unrelated to how *toxic* they are.

Lee Sin ward jumping is not toxic. It just shows that you haven't got the foggiest idea what that term actually entails.

Don't see how this is different from the many other stupid things that champions can combo, and which a lvl 3 player would be just as clueless as to how to deal with.

There's a good dozen of them at least who can instantly kill you either from range or out of stealth (and who can also appear out of nowhere through leaps or teleports), which would just make a new player go "fuck this game" much more than it would if they couldn't catch a shaco. You'll be hanging out by your tower, then suddenly you're dead and there's a kha'zix/rengar/leblanc/fiddlesticks/whatever standing where you died and you have no idea what just happened or how you're supposed to defend yourself against it.

Not sure why his slow is worse than other character abilities that prevent you from escaping either, like nasus or malphite's permaslows, or lucian's or evelyn's permaspeeds, never mind the characters who will just teleport to you over and over again, like akali, ahri, or kassadin.

He's annoying to play against, but not as annoying as say lee sin, or kassadin, or zed, or any number of other champions, and I don't see what makes him "toxic", or at least any more toxic than far more annoying champions like nasus, who will walk up to you under your tower at 20 minutes into the game, slow you so hard that you have no hope of escaping, beat you to death faster than you+your tower can kill him, then walk away no worse for wear before turning around to finish off the tower too. Assuming you're a lvl 3 player. Or some lvl 30 players I've seen... not that that has ever happened to me of course. *cough*

Also don't see what makes shaco's toolkit especially unclear or counter-intuitive, or any more than any other character's. Everything you said about him can be said about many other champions as well, which also appear out of nowhere, and which you "can't escape" (without aid, a tower, escape abilities of your own, cc of your own, or many other things that let you escape...), and who have cc. Only the clone is anything different from most, though leblanc even has that too.

[Duronos]

Don't see how this is different from the many other stupid things that champions can combo, and which a lvl 3 player would be just as clueless as to how to deal with.

There's a good dozen of them at least who can instantly kill you either from range or out of stealth (and who can also appear out of nowhere through leaps or teleports), which would just make a new player go "fuck this game" much more than it would if they couldn't catch a shaco. You'll be hanging out by your tower, then suddenly you're dead and there's a kha'zix/rengar/leblanc/fiddlesticks/whatever standing where you died and you have no idea what just happened or how you're supposed to defend yourself against it.

Not sure why his slow is worse than other character abilities that prevent you from escaping either, like nasus or malphite's permaslows, or lucian's or evelyn's permaspeeds, never mind the characters who will just teleport to you over and over again, like akali, ahri, or kassadin.

He's annoying to play against, but not as annoying as say lee sin, or kassadin, or zed, or any number of other champions, and I don't see what makes him "toxic", or at least any more toxic than far more annoying champions like nasus, who will walk up to you under your tower at 20 minutes into the game, slow you so hard that you have no hope of escaping, beat you to death faster than you+your tower can kill him, then walk away no worse for wear before turning around to finish off the tower too. Assuming you're a lvl 3 player. Or some lvl 30 players I've seen... not that that has ever happened to me of course. *cough*

Also don't see what makes shaco's toolkit especially unclear or counter-intuitive, or any more than any other character's. Everything you said about him can be said about many other champions as well, which also appear out of nowhere, and which you "can't escape" (without aid, a tower, escape abilities of your own, cc of your own, or many other things that let you escape...), and who have cc. Only the clone is anything different from most, though leblanc even has that too.

This is my point, they nerfed his E already and yet he's still considered toxic? I mean his E unless maxed doesn't perma slow people on early ganks, and his Deceive is nowhere near as good as jungle Twitch's stealth (I've played both extensively and Twitch can literally gank by running through the middle of the lane due to speed increase). They've nerfed him to the ground over the years and yet he's still considered toxic, something is not right here, rework Kassadin please, there is a reason I ban him every game.

[Duilliath]

Jesus Christ. You really have no clue about what the word even means.

Toxic has zero to do with how strong a champion is. If anything, it's why they get nerfed to the ground. Cause -> effect. Not effect -> cause

kha'zix/rengar/leblanc/fiddlesticks/

1) Ultimate, short duration. Clear on what happens.
2) Getting reworked because of it
3) Answer is clear: she needs to proc spells on you to deal damage. It's burst, which can be figured out
4) Probably the best example, and he recently hit a nerf to his fear. Annoying as hell, but still, very clear. He fears you, he deals damage.

With Shaco, every answer you would have (as a lowby or not) is the wrong one. THAT is the problem.

[Duronos]

Jesus Christ. You really have no clue about what the word even means.

Toxic has zero to do with how strong a champion is. If anything, it's why they get nerfed to the ground. Cause -> effect. Not effect -> cause



1) Ultimate, short duration. Clear on what happens.
2) Getting reworked because of it
3) Answer is clear: she needs to proc spells on you to deal damage. It's burst, which can be figured out
4) Probably the best example, and he recently hit a nerf to his fear. Annoying as hell, but still, very clear. He fears you, he deals damage.

With Shaco, every answer you would have (as a lowby or not) is the wrong one. THAT is the problem.

You're talking to a Shaco main, the nerfs previously have hit him hard and he's not as toxic as people claim him to be. The only people who think he is toxic are the ones who don't know how to play Shaco at a decent level and don't understand him. Every Shaco jungle that I play against I always beat because Shaco is actually more predictable than you think.

And here's what I don't get, why does something have to be straight up? Shaco is all about outsmarting an opponent much like Lee Sin. With Shaco you predict when to use your ultimate in a 1v1, you choose when to deceive, you place your box as to either cut the enemy off on a gank or for them to take a longer route around it. You see, Shaco is actually more of a reactionary and pre-meditated champion and you certainly don't understand that. He's not he the only champion like that and if Leblanc were played by more people at a high level you'd sure as hell see her nerfed to the ground but because nobody bothers learning her she isn't touched.

Why does Shaco have a straight up fighter? That's completely against is champion archetype. And I'm sorry if you don't think Lee Sin ward hopping is toxic yet Shaco's deceive is then that's weird because Lee Sin's ward hopping is retardedly good and it technically has a lower cooldown than deceive. I'm seriously going to laugh if this rework actually buffs him because I'll tell you what, I already have a solid lineup of junglers and it only gets better if Shaco gets buffed.

Also the "clear on what happens", it's clear that Shaco deceives, places box behind enemy, goes towards enemy, autoattacks (and with the nerfs to his E he cannot keep them slowed all the way without red buff at earlier ranks of E), and you generally finish them with E's active. It's simple really, Shaco is actually more predictable once you know how to play him and it really helps playing against him.

[Duilliath]

You're talking to a Shaco main

Yes, and this is making you incredibly biased. Sidenote, with a 56% Shaco winrate and ~6.6 Deaths/Game average, it's not exactly smooth sailing for you.

Shaco was nerfed because his kit is shit. Same reason Olaf was nerfed to the ground, same reason Rengar got hit by the nerfbat, same reason Evelynn was a troll pick for years, same reason Heimerdinger was something even Wood 5 players thought was horrible.

Each of those, the last two in particular, have unique kits. Singed has a unique kit. Being special does not automatically make you toxic or immune to being toxic.

Shaco has a unique kit and the kit as a whole makes it work. Even so, it's fairly disjointed as a kit.

I'm not sure what they'll change. Backstab could easily be removed, but fits thematically. Two Shiv poison helps with his ganks and he really needs to get those working. Jack in the Box either is stupidly powerful or pointless (depending on CC length, trigger time, target selection, priming time, scaling, duration etc etc).

Imo, Deceive and JitB need to stay, though possibly slightly overhauled. His Hallucinate is an awesome skill, but the clone needs work.

You are constantly equating "strong" with "toxic". That is completely missing the point of what the phrase actually means. It muddies this conversation, because you are arguing something completely different.

//edit: I'm quite sure his rework will make him stronger. Because his current kit doesn't allow him to be competitively strong. Same as Poppy is undertuned due to her Ultimate. Same as Soraka is purposefully kept underpowered.