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  1. #361
    Quote Originally Posted by Doozerjun View Post
    wow never had 20 million concurrent subscribers...

    you can make your point without inflating the numbers, come on now
    I never said concurrent subscribers. try again.

  2. #362
    Titan Tierbook's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by beanman12345 View Post
    I never said concurrent subscribers. try again.
    Based on this logic more people quite playing before WoTLK, when the game hit peak subscribers, than it has since, that being about 8-9 million lost before and just 5-6 million lost since. I can tell from these numbers that WoW has being going up in quality since WoTLK with this.
    Quote Originally Posted by Connal View Post
    I'd never compare him to Hitler, Hitler was actually well educated, and by all accounts pretty intelligent.

  3. #363
    The MMO's you mentioned strongly remind me of SWTOR, TERA, Rift, FF XIV and even Aion (just to name a few).

    The whole 'wow-killer' concept has been talked about for over 8 years now and I see no reason why some people haven't had a look at history. I'm not implying nothing will dethrone WoW, but let's step back for a second and think about the times when people said this new MMO and that new MMO will be the next thing.

  4. #364
    Quote Originally Posted by Tierbook View Post
    Based on this logic more people quite playing before WoTLK, when the game hit peak subscribers, than it has since, that being about 8-9 million lost before and just 5-6 million lost since. I can tell from these numbers that WoW has being going up in quality since WoTLK with this.
    Subscriber number doesn't equal quality of content imo. Kind of the McDonalds anolgy, sure they get alot of business, but the quality isn't great.

  5. #365
    Quote Originally Posted by Drakoes View Post
    The MMO's you mentioned strongly remind me of SWTOR, TERA, Rift, FF XIV and even Aion (just to name a few).

    The whole 'wow-killer' concept has been talked about for over 8 years now and I see no reason why some people haven't had a look at history. I'm not implying nothing will dethrone WoW, but let's step back for a second and think about the times when people said this new MMO and that new MMO will be the next thing.
    From my experience it is, in the majority cases, WOW players that tend to refer to upcoming releases as WOW killers who then use this as stick to beat competing titles when they fail to meet the completely unrealistic target they have labelled it with and to show how great WOW is.

  6. #366
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    From my experience it is, in the majority cases, WOW players that tend to refer to upcoming releases as WOW killers who then use this as stick to beat competing titles when they fail to meet the completely unrealistic target they have labelled it with and to show how great WOW is.
    I never said it would be WoW killer just that it would be an awesome game, as far as ESO goes that is Wildstar can go burn in the garbage patch it came out of. Not saying you were referring to me just pointing out that you may be on to something
    Quote Originally Posted by Connal View Post
    I'd never compare him to Hitler, Hitler was actually well educated, and by all accounts pretty intelligent.

  7. #367
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    Thanks for the Wildstar tip, it looks a bit of whacky and cartooney, but it may be a good deal in the end. Although, it being a NCSoft title bodes nothing good.

    As for WoW, while it will definitely continue to bleed subs, it will still remain a juggernaut for at least 2-3 years more. With WAR, SWToR, Aion, AoC - all of those failing to "kill" WoW, I highly doubt that such a niche titles ESO or Wildstar will fare any better. ESO will just be too serious for it's own good, while Wildstar will have a hard time attracting the flock with it's overcartoony style.

    WoW will die, but it will be of a death caused due to an old age, really.

  8. #368
    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    From my experience it is, in the majority cases, WOW players that tend to refer to upcoming releases as WOW killers who then use this as stick to beat competing titles when they fail to meet the completely unrealistic target they have labelled it with and to show how great WOW is.
    I don't blame these people and I have nothing against them. It's natural to say that most people are always excited for new games and I'm sure some of us, whether they are former or current WoW players, are still actively seeking to play another MMO that lives up to its expectations and talk.

    I'm personally excited for the Elder Scrolls Online too, and will give it a try regardless of its success as I've always been a massive fan of Morrowind. But I still don't think those 2 games the OP mentioned will endanger Blizzard in any way, especially after hearing the positive reception of WoD.
    Last edited by Drakoes; 2013-12-31 at 09:36 PM.

  9. #369
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    WoW is just so fluid and the movement is great and responsive. Every MMO I see come out seems to make the same mistake of clunky movement and the combat and camera isn't as fluid. I've only really just watched videos though, I don't really play other MMO's but that's what it definitely seems like. Lol I remember this one guy arguing with me on Youtube about how GW2 was definitely the WoW killer. I told him it would die out not long after MoP dropped. Wonder what he's doing right now, probably playing WoW, lol.

    The only way any game is gonna actually pull people from WoW long-term is if it's similar to WoW in style and fluidity but with beautiful visuals and REALLY amazing content. Content quality like something Valve would make. I just don't see it happening. WoW has too many dedicated players, too much history, too many addons, too much story and lore. People have been working on their accounts for too damn long. The game is so big and rich now. People are gonna have to really want a reason to spend all their time on another MMO and if WoW doesn't give them one, I don't see many people leaving.
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  10. #370
    Quote Originally Posted by McTurbo View Post
    I thought it was tab might have been another button.. but i was selecting enemies somehow it put a square box around them and brought their health bar up when you had them targeted. i put that one last because i was struggling to remember everything i did from about 15 hours of play.

    public dungeons were a disaster. yes a quest to into a dungeon finally.. you tromp through an empty dungeon fighting maybe 1 respawned enemy on the way to the bottom where you find 20 other people standing there waiting for the main npc to spawn.. get maybe 2-3 swings in.. walk back out of the empty dungeon and turn quest in... was horrible..

    Let me state this.. as an MMO it will be fine to other MMO players if they like elder scrolls.. their is just enough difference (like rift is to wow) to entice some players. its only horrible from the fact that they are advertising the game as skyrim online with friends.. when thats not the truth.. (even though thats what we want) as a standard mmo.. its kind of shallow.. the basics for an mmo is there.. but thats about it.
    good enough summary. People will be disappointed in general, though some will love it (at least if you saw the chat in beta). It doesn't feel ready for release in the slightest, and I didn't notice much difference between my first beta and last, with several months in between.

    That bolded part is the real issue that I have with it as well. I -wanted- a co-op mode with my wife, maybe some other friends. Even if this was that, it still wouldn't be 'Skyrim with friends' ... because it feels -nothing- like Skyrim/Oblivion. It just doesn't feel like a solid title. I mean, I've played a lot of MMOs on the market, and they all 'feel' better, look better than ESO (animations, scale) ... the only one I can recall feeling similar is Aion; and to a lesser extent EQ2.

    Unless the people surprise me; I expect ESO to go F2P/B2P in a relatively short time frame.


    I have no interest in W*. I have a passing interest in WoD; but because there are core gameplay changes I didn't like; highly unlikely I'd spend the money for the xpac and sub fee to test out whether I can tolerate it again. Doesn't mean it will fail; it just means that they are going to fall to a reasonable amount of players (not having such a gigantic lead). Others are going where they like, the competition is good for the genre, and losing subs is good for the game, especially since they are starting to stabilize. If they can settle at 6-7 million, that is still an amazing success for them; and it is good for other games to have 1-2 million each for the better ones, and 200-600k for the less than stellar ones.

  11. #371
    I'm a huge fan of WoW and I'm definitely interested in WoD. With that said I had never heard of Wildstar before this thread and I loved that trailer. My concern is that it will have the same issues as SWTOR: Great story and theme, but subpar gameplay. I know it's an uphill battle when WoW is so complex due to a decade of development and we all expect at least an equivalent experience in any new MMO but it doesn't stop me from hoping.

  12. #372
    Quote Originally Posted by l33t View Post
    Yeah, console players will definitely terminate their wow subscription.
    Oh, wait.
    I didn't say that anything about WoW.

  13. #373
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    Blizz is headed toward annual xpacs, so, don't expect the same pace as before. Blizz experienced a subscriber bonanza when Wotlk was released. Impossible to sustain those numbers over time. Cata could not keep them because it was rehash and Mop pissed off quite a few with storyline and gameplay. But yes, they are still below subs when compared to BC's climb.
    -I lost 6 million of my best friends because of Cataclysm. I will NEVER forgive Blizz for that.
    -There ain't enough tequila in the universe to forget the insanity I experienced with Mists of Pandaria.

  14. #374
    Quote Originally Posted by Tucci View Post
    WoW is just so fluid and the movement is great and responsive. Every MMO I see come out seems to make the same mistake of clunky movement and the combat and camera isn't as fluid. I've only really just watched videos though, I don't really play other MMO's but that's what it definitely seems like.
    responsive and the movement is good in WoW I agree, but combat? I suppose for tab target, dice rolling combat it's pretty good but nothing special.

  15. #375
    The only thing that concerns me is no new content until WOD. Not a sub issue really as they go up and down with expansion endings and beginnings. However, if we are looking at a June/July release(and I have no idea if that is close), between now and then seems like quite the wait with nothing in-between. The beta release will bring excitement for some and any movie news will keep many wow-heads pacified with anticipation. But no new in-game content for so long just seems like a bit of a let down.
    Will I un-sub? Hell no, I love the game and can find many things to do. But something fresh would have been nice while we all wait for WOD.

  16. #376
    Quote Originally Posted by beanman12345 View Post
    Well a few years ago, they mentioned they had roughly 20 million people who had played their game, so in that time from beginning to now, they have lost 13 million people. Take into account only about 4-5 million have left since cata, that's alot more who must have left prior to cata
    If you are referring to that interview one quarter after Cata launch then it was also said that in WotLK the rate of new players slowed down to the point of crossing paths with the losses. The old world revamp was Blizzards attempt to bring back up the new player rate, however the developers spent too much resources on it leaving end game content suffering.

    While the developers never straight up said it there has been pointers that the sub loss during Cata was going to happen and the developers attempt to counter it failed. The free level 90 might be Blizzard next attempt to help with the new player issue while development resource wise being significantly cheaper than prior attempts.
    Quote Originally Posted by Souflikar View Post
    The only thing that concerns me is no new content until WOD. Not a sub issue really as they go up and down with expansion endings and beginnings. However, if we are looking at a June/July release(and I have no idea if that is close), between now and then seems like quite the wait with nothing in-between. The beta release will bring excitement for some and any movie news will keep many wow-heads pacified with anticipation. But no new in-game content for so long just seems like a bit of a let down.
    Will I un-sub? Hell no, I love the game and can find many things to do. But something fresh would have been nice while we all wait for WOD.
    While there will be some minor short story stuff shortly before the start of the expansion the problem of the end of expansion lull is a big one for Blizzard. I am still not sure why the developers will mention the issue and talk about extending the life of content at the start of the new expansion and then scrap it at the last tier and make everything rapid catch up instead of say rapid catch up halfway in where it does more good for the tail end. It makes sense in the idea that there is less content at the start of the expansion, but if players including new ones only focus on the last tier then a lot of content is being skipped out on negating the purpose of the extended grinds prior to the last tier. It sort of worked well for WotLK where there was a lot of dungeons that players didnt really burn out on due to no LFD, but that obviously cant be replicated every time. The only thing Blizzard did to try and extend the life of content his time was not bring in new normal mode level VP gear on the vendor which just sucks for everyone.
    Last edited by nekobaka; 2013-12-31 at 11:32 PM.

  17. #377
    Quote Originally Posted by Dooney View Post
    Blizz is headed toward annual xpacs, so, don't expect the same pace as before. Blizz experienced a subscriber bonanza when Wotlk was released. Impossible to sustain those numbers over time. Cata could not keep them because it was rehash and Mop pissed off quite a few with storyline and gameplay. But yes, they are still below subs when compared to BC's climb.

    Blizz has said they want to release expacs every year since 2007: http://wow.joystiq.com/2007/03/16/an...says-well-try/

    March 16, 2007-

    "On the forums, poster Alorn asks when we're going to see a preview of the next expansion -- since, after all, Blizzard has told us that they're planning on having yearly expansions. Next January is only 10 months away, and we had previews of the Burning Crusade well in advance of 10 months to release. To this question Nethaera replies that Blizzard has not claimed they'll be producing yearly expansions -- but instead that they "wanted to try" to release an expansion a year. This sounds a bit different from what Blizzard COO Paul Sams told GamesIndusrtry.biz back in August, when he said:

    Starting with The Burning Crusade, every year thereafter we plan on bringing out a new expansion set - so every 12 months.

    Though I suppose "we plan" is different from "we will," and we can go back to Blizzard's usual "when it's ready" release date strategy."

    It will never happen

  18. #378
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    From my experience it is, in the majority cases, WOW players that tend to refer to upcoming releases as WOW killers who then use this as stick to beat competing titles when they fail to meet the completely unrealistic target they have labelled it with and to show how great WOW is.
    Actually in my past experiences have been, New MMO gets hyped up as a WoW Killer it gets brought into these forums while Fanboys & Haters are at each other throats & than when the game doesn't succeed or live up to the hype, people either creep back to WoW sucking up to everyone or go back into hiding for the next chance they get to jab at the WoW playerbase (while secertly playing WoW).

    But its always the same people who come out to take a jab, but the people who reallt enjoy their game like GW2, SWTOR & even Rift those people eventually just leave the WoW people alone & allow them to enjoy their game & while they enjoy themselves. It like the saying goes you don't bug the Bear, he wont bother you.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Gospels View Post
    Blizz has said they want to release expacs every year since 2007: http://wow.joystiq.com/2007/03/16/an...says-well-try/

    March 16, 2007-

    "On the forums, poster Alorn asks when we're going to see a preview of the next expansion -- since, after all, Blizzard has told us that they're planning on having yearly expansions. Next January is only 10 months away, and we had previews of the Burning Crusade well in advance of 10 months to release. To this question Nethaera replies that Blizzard has not claimed they'll be producing yearly expansions -- but instead that they "wanted to try" to release an expansion a year. This sounds a bit different from what Blizzard COO Paul Sams told GamesIndusrtry.biz back in August, when he said:

    Starting with The Burning Crusade, every year thereafter we plan on bringing out a new expansion set - so every 12 months.

    Though I suppose "we plan" is different from "we will," and we can go back to Blizzard's usual "when it's ready" release date strategy."

    It will never happen
    We will never get annual Xpacs, Prbly 1.5 years or 2 years from one to another.
    Last edited by Arbs; 2013-12-31 at 11:30 PM.

  19. #379
    MMO itself is a failed business model.

    However, WoW has many fanboys.
    They are paying subs even they are not playing.

  20. #380
    Quote Originally Posted by Arbs View Post
    We will never get annual Xpacs, Prbly 1.5 years or 2 years from one to another.
    Exactly, MOP was released Sept 25th 2012 so they are already 3 months past that deadline, with another 4-5 months to go, at least. And this is after they redirected alot of resources to wow. There will prob never be a yearly expac, and if there is it will be very underwhelming, tbh no new races or classes...wow, kind of like WOD!?

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