Study confirms the idea that schools should have armed/trained security.

[RicardoZ]

Who is making things up? My bed is right next to my safe and I can type the code in the dark, training, it does wonders for your reflexes.

Well maybe you can. I honestly don't believe you, but that doesn't matter.

[Deleted]

That would be a reasonable suggestion, but try doing that in 10 seconds like our superhero friend over here in a situation where you needed to defend yourself or your family.

I suppose you would need 2 cups of coffee and a shower before operating a simple safe.

[Felya]

They're pretty hard to miss.

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=...fe&FORM=HDRSC2

Do those safes stand in plain sight? In middle of living room? Yeah, would still require knowledge that the safe exists, where it is, the ability to enter the house unnoticed while the home owner is there and convince the owner to open the safe. That's a lot of things inhibiting the perpetrator and a lot more time for law enforcement to get there or time for the perp to make mistakes that lead to his arrest.

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Well maybe you can. I honestly don't believe you, but that doesn't matter.

He said he was trained to do it. Are you suggesting training is ineffective when it comes to gun safety? Even in regards to something simple as storage?

[Themius]

But making it mandatory also means more people would do it.

These discussions always end up having a "If it's not 100% effective, why bother at all?" argument.

Imagine if this was the attitude to crimes in general.

"Meh murder should be illegal but.. murderers gonna murder."

[Filathorn]

That would be a reasonable suggestion, but try doing that in 10 seconds like our superhero friend over here in a situation where you needed to defend yourself or your family.

Why do you need to do it in 10 seconds? If the guy already is in your house with a knife and intending to harm you and your children, chances are he'll have it in your throat before you can get to your gun anyway (and you'd have pretty equal chances of defending yourself with a baseball bat). If he's only there to steal shit from you, let him, it's not worth confronting a potential murderer for money. (specially as you could just have what here in Norway is a basic insurance that will cover all your losses from a burglar).

[Wells]

Well maybe you can. I honestly don't believe you, but that doesn't matter.

You dont get to play this card after constructing more and more elaborate assassins out to get you to defend your argument with.

[Bloodwolf]

Now compare populations.

Population Europe: 739,2 million(2011)
Population USA: 313,9 million(2012)

School shootings Europe: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_shooting#Europe
School shootings USA: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._United_States

Reason: misinterpretations of the 2nd amendment

[Wells]

I suppose you would need 2 cups of coffee and a shower before operating a simple safe.

He can't manage to open a safe quickly but he totally wield lethal force properly.

[RicardoZ]

You dont get to play this card after constructing more and more elaborate assassins out to get you to defend your argument with.

Because I posed a hypothetical situation in which gun safes would prove ineffective and this guy claimed to have superhuman reflexes to swerve around the argument?

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He can't manage to open a safe quickly but he totally wild lethal force properly.

I don't even own a gun. In fact, I'm all for more regulations on them...I just don't think safes are a good idea.

[Themius]

Why do you need to do it in 10 seconds? If the guy already is in your house with a knife and intending to harm you and your children, chances are he'll have it in your throat before you can get to your gun anyway (and you'd have pretty equal chances of defending yourself with a baseball bat). If he's only there to steal shit from you, let him, it's not worth confronting a potential murderer for money. (specially as you could just have what here in Norway is a basic insurance that will cover all your losses from a burglar).

In America you can kill people for stealing... Person outside stealing your car? You can go outside and shoot them to death, hell you can shoot them to death from your fucking window and you'd be in the clear, because they were trying to steal your property. You are allowed to use deadly force to protect your material goods.

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Because I posed a hypothetical situation in which gun safes would prove ineffective and this guy claimed to have superhuman reflexes to swerve around the argument?

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I don't even own a gun. In fact, I'm all for more regulations on them...I just don't think safes are a good idea.

Tell that to the growing number of dead and injured people in shootings who get their guns from family members who never stored them.

[Wells]

Because I posed a hypothetical situation in which gun safes would prove ineffective and this guy claimed to have superhuman reflexes to swerve around the argument?

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I don't even own a gun. In fact, I'm all for more regulations on them...I just don't think safes are a good idea.

There is no perfect safety. Constructing elaborate scenarios is not a good argument.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Because I posed a hypothetical situation in which gun safes would prove ineffective and this guy claimed to have superhuman reflexes to swerve around the argument?

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I don't even own a gun. In fact, I'm all for more regulations on them...I just don't think safes are a good idea.

He's and was in the military. It's not a shocker he's so intense.

[Deleted]

Because I posed a hypothetical situation in which gun safes would prove ineffective and this guy claimed to have superhuman reflexes to swerve around the argument?

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I don't even own a gun. In fact, I'm all for more regulations on them...I just don't think safes are a good idea.

You keep using that word, do you have any idea what it actually means? Do you know anything at all about firearms? If you do you can tell me how quickly you can cock and make ready a 5.56 rifle, lets use the AR15 as an example.

[Cthulhu 2020]

Imagine if this was the attitude to crimes in general.

"Meh murder should be illegal but.. murderers gonna murder."

"Why should we put armed guards at schools? Sure, they may stop a few, but they won't stop them all. May as well not do it."

To say that we shouldn't implement universal background checks because not everyone would do them, then turn around and suggest other measures that *GASP* some people would ignore/get around is partisanship at its finest.



You know it's funny, when the issue of gun safety comes up, any legislation that would ultimately result in less gun sales are shot down (lol) by the right wing/NRA. But when there's some ideas that would put the demand for MORE guns out there, the NRA puts their weight behind it.

And people argue that the NRA has no vested interest in the profits of the gun industry.

[Felya]

I just don't think safes are a good idea.

Because they inhibit access to a gun, so much that even in your hypothetical example, they would have to hold the home owner at knife point?

[traen]

Thoughts?

You country is a total mess if you have to arm your school teachers.

I can't imagine why would someone be with a gun in a school. I can't imagine someone starting shooting in a school.
Your situation is totally out of control. And bringing even more violence to it by arming teaches or employing armed people would only make it worse.

You should teach your children that violence is never an option. They should think that guns, knifes and murders only exist in stupid american movies. And this is impossible when you see an armed man searching you every day.

[S7orm]

Hate to break this to you, but a decent number of people in rural American do need guns. Hiking in grizzly country without being "loaded for bear" is neither safe nor responsible. Guns are also decent protection against mountain lions, rattlesnakes, and in recent years, wolves. I'm glad to see wolves making a comeback, but do not want to argue with a pack over who gets to eat the elk I just shot. And yes, guns are used for hunting - not just for sport but for the table. I won't say I've ever known anyone who would have literally starved without hunting, but a deer and an elk in the freezer can definitely free up some cash for Christmas. They're also extremely useful for dealing with varmits.

yeah, there's one hell of a mountain lions problem in Los Angeles :P
Hunting have nothing to do with school shooting as long as you are (mentally) tested. In Italy there are a lot of people with hunting license, still i can't remember a single school shooting. The problems isn't the amount of guns, but the ease with which you can obtain a gun without passing a mental health test or proper training.

you want to hunt? mental health test, basic rifle training and hunting regulation classes to attend.
you want to keep a gun in your home? mental health test, basic gun shooting training and a couple of "how to own a gun" lessons, including (un)loading and storing in a safe.

you can get rid of both school shootings and rednecks sleeping on the rocker with a loaded rifle in hand. Two birds one stone.

[Ghostpanther]

I highly doubt that. Maybe you were trained in the military to hypothetically do that, but I don't believe for a minute you can go from asleep to armed in 10 seconds, unless you're Batman.

You're just making things up now, stick to the issues.

Yes you can. Easily. For one I do not have kids at home now and my .357 mag is loaded and close to my bed within arm's reach. and I sleep with my bedroom door closed. My whole family knows not to go into my bedroom with out first announcing who they are.

A neighbor was awaken a couple years ago when he heard someone breaking into his home in the basement. He met that person at the top of the basement stairs with a loaded rifle as the guy started going up them. The bugler was shot, escaped back out the basement window he had broken to get in the home and was later arrested at the local hospital...wounded.

[Belize]

Why not exchange everyone's guns for swords? Eh... eeehhh? You know you would like that.

Anyways, I think better school emergency procedures would go a long ways. In high school, we had "invader situations practice" (or something it was a really dumb technical term) which basically amounted to locking the classroom door, turning off the light and hugging the back wall away from the door. Then again, back in the cold wars kid hid under their desks for nuclear bomb dropping practices which... really isn't any better.

[Monoxide]

*Puts knife to homeowners neck* "Now draw that pistol and shoot me motherfucker".

They should come down on it like a ton of bricks, a bedside cabinet is not a safe place to store a pistol.

What fairytale land do you live in? If I have a weapon for home protection, I want it readily available; not locked in a case with a key and passcode that I'd never have time to get to if an intruder breaks in. I want it next to my bed in a cabinet, yes.

And, which is it? Is my gun locked safely away where it can't be easily accessed, or is it nearby where I can quickly use it to defend myself? You seem to want it both ways.

Nothing in my original post said anything about banning firearms, I don't know why you like to invent things and pretend people say it. The reality of the matter is you have no good response to what I said because you can't grasp the concept the criminals don't give a fuck about the law and no amount of regulation is going to get guns out of the hands of dangerous people.