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  1. #361
    Herald of the Titans RicardoZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    There is no perfect safety. Constructing elaborate scenarios is not a good argument.
    That's right, there isn't any perfect safety. That's why the discussion about gun control is all about scenarios. And there's nothing "elaborate" about thinking that a criminal could make you open a safe. I think the argument that you're able to go from a deep sleep, to opening your safe, and being ready to defend yourself within 10 seconds requires a much more elaborate suspension of disbelief than simply positing that safes leave you potentially unarmed at the time you need to be armed.

  2. #362
    The Insane Belize's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monoxide View Post
    What fairytale land do you live in? If I have a weapon for home protection, I want it readily available; not locked in a case with a key and passcode that I'd never have time to get to if an intruder breaks in. I want it next to my bed in a cabinet, yes.

    And, which is it? Is my gun locked safely away where it can't be easily accessed, or is it nearby where I can quickly use it to defend myself? You seem to want it both ways.

    Nothing in my original post said anything about banning firearms, I don't know why you like to invent things and pretend people say it. The reality of the matter is you have no good response to what I said because you can't grasp the concept the criminals don't give a fuck about the law and no amount of regulation is going to get guns out of the hands of dangerous people.
    If you live in a first world country where keeping a gun right next to you at all times because there is a high chance of being attacked, you either live in a really REALLY (i mean worse than the ghettos) part of town and should GTFO as soon as you can or you're slightly schizophrenic and think everyone is out to get you.

    I've never felt the need to keep a weapon by me, and I lived in the city with the 3rd highest violent crime ratio in the U.S. (Memphis, although I think we might have fallen to 5th place. Consolation?)

  3. #363
    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    In America you can kill people for stealing... Person outside stealing your car? You can go outside and shoot them to death, hell you can shoot them to death from your fucking window and you'd be in the clear, because they were trying to steal your property. You are allowed to use deadly force to protect your material goods.
    And I still wouldn't do it. There is no damn fucking reason to confront a potentially dangerous situation just because it may cause you economic harm. I'd run from pretty much every and any potentially dangerous situation if I thought I could outrun it unless me staying would make the situation safer for other people. I don't know if insurance in USA is more expensive or less common than in Norway, but part the contract for the apartment I'm renting is that I'm obliged to have an insurance that covers pretty much all of my possessions (pretty much only car that isn't covered). And this isn't abnormal, because it insures that the owners are safe in case of fire/flood/accidental truck into the apartment etc. My parents told me that if I ever ended up in a dangerous sitation like a burglary / robbery, I'm to fully cooperate with the criminal, give him my wallet and phone, give him the keys to my car, whatever he asks. This way, the criminal gets what he wants, maybe he knocks me out to buy some time before I call the police, but that's the worst that should happen to me. Off course, he could be a mad man intending to kill me, and then I'm probably screwed, but I'd probably be screwed anyway, but in 99% of these situations, I just lost lots of stuff, I call the police and insurance company, get all my stuff back and no one was harmed for it.

  4. #364
    Quote Originally Posted by RICH8472 View Post
    Why not have your gunsafe by your bed? As for not enough time to use it I will ask again, who the fuck is coming for you that is so damn quick?
    Have you seen John Woo movies?
    Entropy won't yield to you.
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
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  5. #365
    The Insane Belize's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    Lol want to stay on the east coast for easy New York access. I was thinking Montreal or Ontario.
    Montreal is a shitty city btw. If you want somewhere quiet, take the 3 hours up north and move to Quebec. The most threatening thing there are old people driving.

  6. #366
    Herald of the Titans RicardoZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostpanther View Post
    Yes you can. Easily. For one I do not have kids at home now and my .357 mag is loaded and close to my bed within arm's reach. and I sleep with my bedroom door closed. My whole family knows not to go into my bedroom with out first announcing who they are.
    What kind of a lunatic are you?

    Geez...why can you not have an opinion on this issue without drawing out every Dirty Harry and some other guy who seems to think he's the Flash...Why can't you discuss this issue rationally...ever?

  7. #367
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    Quote Originally Posted by Felya420 View Post
    Have you seen John Woo movies?
    I think most people get their self defence scenarios from him.....

    "What do you do if a 4 man Special Forces team assaults your house at 3am? You will wish you never had it in your gun safe then huh!"

  8. #368
    Herald of the Titans RicardoZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RICH8472 View Post
    You keep using that word, do you have any idea what it actually means? Do you know anything at all about firearms? If you do you can tell me how quickly you can cock and make ready a 5.56 rifle, lets use the AR15 as an example.
    What word? And are we into the "dude do you even lift?" portion of your objection now?

  9. #369
    Quote Originally Posted by RICH8472 View Post
    Why not have your gunsafe by your bed? As for not enough time to use it I will ask again, who the fuck is coming for you that is so damn quick?
    Its fascinating how they harp on the dangers of using a safe but ignore the danger of unsecured firearms.

  10. #370
    Herald of the Titans RicardoZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RICH8472 View Post
    I think most people get their self defence scenarios from him.....

    "What do you do if a 4 man Special Forces team assaults your house at 3am? You will wish you never had it in your gun safe then huh!"
    Why do you find the idea that a criminal would make you open up your gun safe so fanciful?

  11. #371
    Quote Originally Posted by RicardoZ View Post
    That's right, there isn't any perfect safety. That's why the discussion about gun control is all about scenarios. And there's nothing "elaborate" about thinking that a criminal could make you open a safe. I think the argument that you're able to go from a deep sleep, to opening your safe, and being ready to defend yourself within 10 seconds requires a much more elaborate suspension of disbelief than simply positing that safes leave you potentially unarmed at the time you need to be armed.
    Deep sleep, plus them seeing the safe, you not waking up while they found the safe, while also being elaborate thieves that were not just there to grab and get out. Hearing someone breaking into your house and having the time to get your gun from a safe, is far less elaborate than having you sleep through a break in, where perpetrators were willing to hold an otherwise sleeping home owner hostage to get into a safe they were able to find and know was worth the ordeal.
    Entropy won't yield to you.
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    I don’t work here, I only smoke here.

  12. #372
    Quote Originally Posted by RicardoZ View Post
    That's right, there isn't any perfect safety. That's why the discussion about gun control is all about scenarios. And there's nothing "elaborate" about thinking that a criminal could make you open a safe. I think the argument that you're able to go from a deep sleep, to opening your safe, and being ready to defend yourself within 10 seconds requires a much more elaborate suspension of disbelief than simply positing that safes leave you potentially unarmed at the time you need to be armed.
    But you're OK with going from being asleep to immediately applying lethal force

  13. #373
    Quote Originally Posted by RicardoZ View Post
    Why do you find the idea that a criminal would make you open up your gun safe so fanciful?
    Maybe because it's hard for him to believe he would sleep through a break in, plus the odds of thieves holding an otherwise sleeping home owner hostage.
    Entropy won't yield to you.
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    I don’t work here, I only smoke here.

  14. #374
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by RicardoZ View Post
    What word? And are we into the "dude do you even lift?" portion of your objection now?
    Superhuman, you keep using that word for something that requires not a lot of skill.

  15. #375
    Quote Originally Posted by Rukentuts View Post
    That it's a silly premise of focusing on symptoms rather than the cause.
    not to mention no with a brain has said trained security guards is a bad idea, its the problem of paying for them. Most school districts are already strapped for cash as it is, they can barely afford supplies in some places, so how is a trained, tactical, squad of officers/guards going to be fit in the budget?

  16. #376
    As for this back and forth scenario about a guy breaking into your house and you needing you weapon under your pillow: Get an alarm that will triger on any door or window opened, make it silent apart from your bedroom and the security firm / police (automatic call to 911 with your info and that it's a break in). Burglar won't know he's busted, you have at least 2 min to get out of your bed, to your safe, open it, and get out your weapon before he can get into your room. Or even just lock your bedroom door (have a proper lock), and just wait for the cops.

  17. #377
    The Undying Cthulhu 2020's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Its fascinating how they harp on the dangers of using a safe but ignore the danger of unsecured firearms.
    One would put 2 inches of iron between them and their security blanket.

    I've long ago come to the conclusion (after so many arguments that fly in the face of data and statistics) that it's not so much about "being" safe as it is they just feel safer.
    "Nazis are like cats. If they like you, it's probably because you're feeding them." -John Oliver
    Quote Originally Posted by Knadra View Post
    I don't care if he committed tax fraud. Scoring political victories and crushing the aspirations of your political opponents is more important than adhering to moral principles.
    Knadra finally just admitting Trumpkins care more about political victories than morals.

  18. #378
    Stood in the Fire Obtuse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    Lol want to stay on the east coast for easy New York access. I was thinking Montreal or Ontario.
    Lived in Montreal for 3 years. It's a beautiful place. Easily the nicest "big" city in Canada. Has a feel like nothing else here.
    Toronto or anywhere in the golden horseshoe will satisfy your need for city if you move to Ontario, though I'd skip a few more Kilometers down the road and go to a place like Guelph or KW. Still close to the crazy without living directly in it.
    Obtuse and Obedient of Stormrage US

  19. #379
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by RicardoZ View Post
    Why do you find the idea that a criminal would make you open up your gun safe so fanciful?
    If that happens it means he caught me fast asleep, my dogs are dead and he is standing over my bed. Doesnt matter if that gun is in my hand, I am a dead man.

  20. #380
    The Undying Themius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Filathorn View Post
    And I still wouldn't do it. There is no damn fucking reason to confront a potentially dangerous situation just because it may cause you economic harm. I'd run from pretty much every and any potentially dangerous situation if I thought I could outrun it unless me staying would make the situation safer for other people. I don't know if insurance in USA is more expensive or less common than in Norway, but part the contract for the apartment I'm renting is that I'm obliged to have an insurance that covers pretty much all of my possessions (pretty much only car that isn't covered). And this isn't abnormal, because it insures that the owners are safe in case of fire/flood/accidental truck into the apartment etc. My parents told me that if I ever ended up in a dangerous sitation like a burglary / robbery, I'm to fully cooperate with the criminal, give him my wallet and phone, give him the keys to my car, whatever he asks. This way, the criminal gets what he wants, maybe he knocks me out to buy some time before I call the police, but that's the worst that should happen to me. Off course, he could be a mad man intending to kill me, and then I'm probably screwed, but I'd probably be screwed anyway, but in 99% of these situations, I just lost lots of stuff, I call the police and insurance company, get all my stuff back and no one was harmed for it.
    It's paints a worrying picture doesn't it though? Americans, very materialistic to the point where deadly force over a plasma = a-okay. You should see the topic I made on this, many people were in support of shooting a car thief because it would cause them economic issues.

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