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  1. #461
    Quote Originally Posted by satimy View Post
    2nd amendment of the US constitution. Some people don't trust the police or government to protect them and to protect their country in the event that their government becomes tyrannical.
    In every other Western country we call those people "nutcases".

    Quote Originally Posted by Kapadons View Post
    According to the Wikipedia page, the US has had 77 deaths as a result of a school shooting since 2010. This includes the shooter themselves and is inflated by the 28 of Sandy Hook. Most of them end in none or shooters only death and a few injuries. This is a very miniscule problem that effects a VERY VERY miniscule amount of the population of the US. Intending to ban guns for such a small problem is ridiculous.
    It's unusually high in the US but as a proportion of the population yes, it's small. It's just particularly devastating when it does happen.

    Most gun deaths are caused by cheap handguns IIRC.

    Quote Originally Posted by RicardoZ View Post
    Those three things aren't so unreasonable that you wouldn't have to take them into account as potential contingencies. It's not like we're talking about aliens beaming it up to the mother ship or something. In fact, one of the main ways that criminals get their weapons in the first place is by stealing them from people who thought they were being responsible.

    Or are you just so bothered that somebody raised an objection to your argument that you can't even fathom a situation in which it might fail?
    That's actually not true, most illegal guns are via straw purchases, dodgy gun shop owners and the like. Theft accounts for like 15% of all illegal guns.

    http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl...ocon/guns.html

    But if you mean that the vast majority of illegal guns ultimately derive from legal sources, that is true.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tojara View Post
    Look Batman really isn't an accurate source by any means
    Quote Originally Posted by Hooked View Post
    It is a fact, not just something I made up.

  2. #462
    Herald of the Titans RicardoZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RICH8472 View Post
    I am curious as to how you are going to open it.
    Yes, because these are special criminals who don't know how to open locks or can't lug it out to their car and figure it out later. Of course, at least with you anyway, there's no chance they could just make you do it. Maybe that might fly on some other mere mortals though.

  3. #463
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Filathorn View Post
    Yes, he might have exaggerated with his damn number of 10 seconds, and neither of us will ever know. But I ask for the third time, will he ever need it within 10 seconds? If someone enters someone elses home, will they be standing on the owners bed within even 1-2 minutes with a weapon aimed at the owner? I'd rather think that in that case, they are trained professionals and will kill/harm him no matter if he's even awake and holding the gun before they begin.
    So could we please stop focusing on the extremly irrelevant potential exaggeration and focus on the point at hand instead? This was mentioned 10 pages ago, that's like 200 years in internet time!
    10 seconds was not exaggerated and you are right that I will never need to get it at that speed, I was just saying that I can have it in that time, the fact is that it is not that much slower than keeping it unlocked by your bed and it much more secure from theft when you are not around. There is no logical reason not to use a gunsafe if you keep firearms in the house.

  4. #464
    Quote Originally Posted by RicardoZ View Post
    Yes, because these are special criminals who don't know how to open locks or can't lug it out to their car and figure it out later. Of course, at least with you anyway, there's no chance they could just make you do it. Maybe that might fly on some other mere mortals though.
    If gun safes were implemented, they'd probably do something like in Norway, where a gun safe is bolted to a concrete floor or some other solid feature. Make it weigh like 80kg, bolt it to concrete and it's kinda hard to just "lug it out to your car and figure it out later".

    Quote Originally Posted by RICH8472 View Post
    10 seconds was not exaggerated and you are right that I will never need to get it at that speed, I was just saying that I can have it in that time, the fact is that it is not that much slower than keeping it unlocked by your bed and it much more secure from theft when you are not around. There is no logical reason not to use a gunsafe if you keep firearms in the house.
    I honestly don't care about the number, and wouldn't be sad if the number was never mentioned again. It doesn't matter, because it's completely irrelevant. You'll never need to test that number out in practice, which is the important part. My point, in case anyone still wonders, is that I'd like this thread to stop focusing on the irrelevant details mentioned ages ago and rather focus on what is actually being discussed right now.
    Last edited by Filathorn; 2014-01-03 at 01:02 AM.

  5. #465
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by RicardoZ View Post
    Yes, because these are special criminals who don't know how to open locks or can't lug it out to their car and figure it out later. Of course, at least with you anyway, there's no chance they could just make you do it. Maybe that might fly on some other mere mortals though.
    Ah, I understand your mistake now, you are confusing a gun safe with a gun cabinet.

    Good luck lugging a loaded safe down the stairs.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Filathorn View Post
    If gun safes were implemented, they'd probably do something like in Norway, where a gun safe is bolted to a concrete floor or some other solid feature. Make it weigh like 80kg, bolt it to concrete and it's kinda hard to just "lug it out to your car and figure it out later".
    Exactly, Superman is the only guy carrying out a proper gun safe.

  6. #466
    Herald of the Titans RicardoZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    That's actually not true, most illegal guns are via straw purchases, dodgy gun shop owners and the like. Theft accounts for like 15% of all illegal guns.

    http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl...ocon/guns.html

    But if you mean that the vast majority of illegal guns ultimately derive from legal sources, that is true.
    Exactly, so then what's the point of having safes in the first place?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Filathorn View Post
    If gun safes were implemented, they'd probably do something like in Norway, where a gun safe is bolted to a concrete floor or some other solid feature. Make it weigh like 80kg, bolt it to concrete and it's kinda hard to just "lug it out to your car and figure it out later".
    Good luck enforcing that in America.

  7. #467
    Quote Originally Posted by RicardoZ View Post
    Exactly, so then what's the point of having safes in the first place?

    - - - Updated - - -



    Good luck enforcing that in America.
    I don't see how it'd be a problem. It's another 500$ investment required to keep firearms. It's not as if it's cheap as it is, don't get one til you can afford to keep one properly.

  8. #468
    Herald of the Titans RicardoZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RICH8472 View Post
    Ah, I understand your mistake now, you are confusing a gun safe with a gun cabinet.
    Even if you're talking about a little safe like they have on cruise ships for your valuables, then I still don't see the point. It would be all the easier for somebody to just nick it from your gaff.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Filathorn View Post
    I don't see how it'd be a problem. It's another 500$ investment required to keep firearms. It's not as if it's cheap as it is, don't get one til you can afford to keep one properly.
    Yes, because only the rich deserve the luxury of their Constitutional rights.

  9. #469
    Quote Originally Posted by RICH8472 View Post
    10 seconds was not exaggerated and you are right that I will never need to get it at that speed, I was just saying that I can have it in that time, the fact is that it is not that much slower than keeping it unlocked by your bed and it much more secure from theft when you are not around. There is no logical reason not to use a gunsafe if you keep firearms in the house.
    This. We don't ask that you give up your guns. Just be responsible when using and storing them.


    Also, get a an alarm system for the house. Ours was free to install and the 24/7 protection service costs us around $20 per month. Significantly deters theft and increases awareness time to you of potential intruders. Ours also lets us close the garage remotely, detects carbon monoxide etc. If we went for the upgraded package we could turn off lights remotely and such.
    People working 2 jobs in the US (at least one part-time) - 7.8 Million (Roughly 4.9% of the workforce)

    People working 2 full-time jobs in the US - 360,000 (0.2% of the workforce)

    Average time worked weekly by the US Workforce - 34.5 hours

  10. #470
    Quote Originally Posted by RicardoZ View Post
    Even if you're talking about a little safe like they have on cruise ships for your valuables, then I still don't see the point. It would be all the easier for somebody to just nick it from your gaff.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Yes, because only the rich deserve the luxury of their Constitutional rights.
    No, only people willing to invest in their own and others security deserve the luxury of keeping a lethal stupidity in their house.

  11. #471
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by RicardoZ View Post
    Even if you're talking about a little safe like they have on cruise ships for your valuables, then I still don't see the point. It would be all the easier for somebody to just nick it from your gaff.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Yes, because only the rich deserve the luxury of their Constitutional rights.
    Who the fuck does not bolt their safe down? A safe not bolted down is just a metal box.

  12. #472
    Quote Originally Posted by Kapadons View Post
    Also, get a an alarm system for the house. Ours was free to install and the 24/7 protection service costs us around $20 per month. Significantly deters theft and increases awareness time to you of potential intruders. Ours also lets us close the garage remotely, detects carbon monoxide etc. If we went for the upgraded package we could turn off lights remotely and such.
    Alarms also come free of the risk of hurting someone in your family, and are more effective at scary away burglars than someone trudging through a dark house half asleep in their boxers with a loaded firearm.

    They also work to protect your shit when you have to work.

  13. #473
    I'm actually supportive of the whole gun safe thing. Making it mandatory would be a little far, but the government could subsidize them by offering a coupon or a rebate to anyone who purchases a gun, making the decision to get a safe pretty easy.

  14. #474
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Eroginous View Post
    I'm actually supportive of the whole gun safe thing. Making it mandatory would be a little far, but the government could subsidize them by offering a coupon or a rebate to anyone who purchases a gun, making the decision to get a safe pretty easy.
    A good idea and no doubt cheaper than armed guards in every school, you can also keep more than just firearms in the safe meaning burglars get less loot.

  15. #475
    Quote Originally Posted by RicardoZ View Post
    Exactly, so then what's the point of having safes in the first place?
    My actual opinion on gun control:

    -Responsible gun owners who use safes etc aren't the problem.
    -Vast proliferation of firearms and ease of acquisition either legally or illegally is.
    -The two are related, lax regulation of legal guns fuels illegal ownership.
    -The US needs strong gun regulation to reduce this (in US terms this is "gun control").
    -It also needs a one-time buyback and destruction of a huge number of guns to reduce the amount already in the wild.
    -This will likely require a Constitutional Amendment which is unlikely due to massive partisan gun lobbying and the split of public opinion.

    --> Only solution is for the American people to change their mind. Failing that, well lie in the bed that they made.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tojara View Post
    Look Batman really isn't an accurate source by any means
    Quote Originally Posted by Hooked View Post
    It is a fact, not just something I made up.

  16. #476
    Prohibition apparently taught people nothing. Banning something that already exists is giving criminals power, because only law-abiding citizens actually follow the laws.

    Since we can't go back in time and un-invent them, our only choice is regulation and education. "Ween" the country off of them over the course of a few decades.

  17. #477
    Quote Originally Posted by Rukentuts View Post
    Alarms also come free of the risk of hurting someone in your family, and are more effective at scary away burglars than someone trudging through a dark house half asleep in their boxers with a loaded firearm.

    They also work to protect your shit when you have to work.
    They also help to keep your teenage kids from sneaking out past curfew.
    People working 2 jobs in the US (at least one part-time) - 7.8 Million (Roughly 4.9% of the workforce)

    People working 2 full-time jobs in the US - 360,000 (0.2% of the workforce)

    Average time worked weekly by the US Workforce - 34.5 hours

  18. #478
    Herald of the Titans RicardoZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Filathorn View Post
    No, only people willing to invest in their own and others security deserve the luxury of keeping a lethal stupidity in their house.
    However you want to dress it up, it would amount to only people who can afford to pay for all these extras being able to have weapons. The poor would be sitting ducks.

    This actually sets up a pretty funny scenario in which the Democratic party might actually give subsidies to poor people for gun ownership.

  19. #479
    Quote Originally Posted by RicardoZ View Post
    However you want to dress it up, it would amount to only people who can afford to pay for all these extras being able to have weapons. The poor would be sitting ducks.

    This actually sets up a pretty funny scenario in which the Democratic party might actually give subsidies to poor people for gun ownership.
    Inb4 - Gun ownership is racist!
    People working 2 jobs in the US (at least one part-time) - 7.8 Million (Roughly 4.9% of the workforce)

    People working 2 full-time jobs in the US - 360,000 (0.2% of the workforce)

    Average time worked weekly by the US Workforce - 34.5 hours

  20. #480
    Void Lord Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kapadons View Post
    Inb4 - Gun ownership is racist!
    Nobody implied that.
    #TeamLegion #UnderEarthofAzerothexpansion plz #Arathor4Alliance

    Warrior-Magi at your service! My Youtube Channel https://www.youtube.com/user/Aeluron

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