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  1. #481
    Quote Originally Posted by RicardoZ View Post
    However you want to dress it up, it would amount to only people who can afford to pay for all these extras being able to have weapons. The poor would be sitting ducks.

    This actually sets up a pretty funny scenario in which the Democratic party might actually give subsidies to poor people for gun ownership.
    "Sitting ducks"? It's like you believe you'll get shot the moment someone realizes you don't have a gun. As someone just said, subsidize buying a gun safe for all gun buyers, you could even subsidize all gun safes for all who actually care about their own and others safety.

    Tbh, if it was up to me, I'd implement compulsory gun registration and having gun safes if you have a gun. Anyone with a non-registred gun gets severe punishment and the owner of a registred gun used in crime gets the same punishment. Include a ban on gun sales, cheaper alarm systems and faster police action in case of alarms, a massive "the state buys all guns" to get as many guns as possible out of civilian hands, and in a couple of decades you might actually realize you don't need the guns so damn much. After most guns were off the streets, I'd remove the ban, but make sure it's hard to get a gun (and you'd still have this weapon safe you'd need to keep your gun in).

  2. #482
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    Nobody implied that.
    Anything that favors the rich or discourages the poor is inherently racist. Don't you know anything about politics?
    People working 2 jobs in the US (at least one part-time) - 7.8 Million (Roughly 4.9% of the workforce)

    People working 2 full-time jobs in the US - 360,000 (0.2% of the workforce)

    Average time worked weekly by the US Workforce - 34.5 hours

  3. #483
    Herald of the Titans RicardoZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Filathorn View Post
    "Sitting ducks"? It's like you believe you'll get shot the moment someone realizes you don't have a gun.
    Well if the reason you are buying a gun in the first place is to avoid certain perceived social ills, then I guess the term "sitting duck" could characterize those who are without one. Would you rather invent a more politically correct term like "the lesser protected"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Filathorn View Post
    Tbh, if it was up to me, I'd implement compulsory gun registration and having gun safes if you have a gun. Anyone with a non-registred gun gets severe punishment and the owner of a registred gun used in crime gets the same punishment.
    I wouldn't really have a problem with that. I'm not a gun owner and probably never will be, so it's easy for me to throw regulations and requirements on other people when I myself am not affected and couldn't care less. I think the potential for the guns to be stolen is still there and don't believe it will deter any school shootings, but if you would feel more comfortable with publicly funded gun safes in every home, then by all means.

  4. #484
    Quote Originally Posted by Prag View Post
    Prohibition apparently taught people nothing. Banning something that already exists is giving criminals power, because only law-abiding citizens actually follow the laws.

    Since we can't go back in time and un-invent them, our only choice is regulation and education. "Ween" the country off of them over the course of a few decades.
    We did exactly that here in Australia. Banned guns, rounded them up and destroyed them. Haven't had a mass shooting since the 90s when those laws came in.

    Prohibition didn't work because it's insane to try to make something illegal that's perfectly normal for everyone to want to do. I think prohibition is a good example of why the war on drugs doesn't work (on a smaller scale than prohibition, which was just outright insanity). But not for gun control.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tojara View Post
    Look Batman really isn't an accurate source by any means
    Quote Originally Posted by Hooked View Post
    It is a fact, not just something I made up.

  5. #485
    Quote Originally Posted by RicardoZ View Post
    Well if the reason you are buying a gun in the first place is to avoid certain perceived social ills, then I guess the term "sitting duck" could characterize those who are without one. Would you rather invent a more politically correct term like "the lesser protected"?



    I wouldn't really have a problem with that. I'm not a gun owner and probably never will be, so it's easy for me to throw regulations and requirements on other people when I myself am not affected and couldn't care less. I think the potential for the guns to be stolen is still there and don't believe it will deter any school shootings, but if you would feel more comfortable with publicly funded gun safes in every home, then by all means.
    To me, guns are a luxury, not a right. I don't see why anyone would want or need one apart from hunting, and if you are ever to get one, you should make sure it's as secure as possible. Thus the gun safes. Compulsory Weapon Safes were implemented here in Norway back in 2010, I've heard absolutely no drama or fuzz about it, people either sold their weapons back to the state (at full price) or got their damn Weapon Safes, which pretty much makes certain you can't steal any legal weapons. It also severely reduces the chances of accidents happening (no children accidentally misfiring a weapon). We've had one incident with guns at school, and it was in 2009, so a year before the Compulsory Weapon safes, and if we had implemented that law a year earlier, we'd still have a pristine record on school shootings.

    If you also make sure weapons aren't sold over disc illegally (aka making sure no weapon shops "accidentally" sells illegally), for instance by registring all buyers of weapons (and having the buyer send in their own copy of the registration and getting their copy back to their government listed adress, to avoid registering weapons to someone else), and not letting criminals buy weapons, you make it pretty much impossible for criminals to get a weapon without first committing a crime to get the weapon. Make obtaining illegal firearms or using firearms for crime an incredibly severe crime, and you suddenly made sure people don't want to use firearms for crime (because who wants to spend the rest of their life in prison doing hard manual labor?). Reduce access and reduce motive ==> reduce usage of firearms in crime.

    EDIT:

    Quote Originally Posted by Rukentuts View Post
    "Lesser protected" are what those with 24h monitored security systems think of those that rely on guns.
    ^And that! So much. I didn't comment on it first because I didn't exactly know how to express exactly that.
    Last edited by Filathorn; 2014-01-03 at 01:46 AM. Reason: QFT

  6. #486
    Quote Originally Posted by RicardoZ View Post
    Well if the reason you are buying a gun in the first place is to avoid certain perceived social ills, then I guess the term "sitting duck" could characterize those who are without one. Would you rather invent a more politically correct term like "the lesser protected"?
    "Lesser protected" are what those with 24h monitored security systems think of those that rely on guns.

  7. #487
    I like how the "study" you posted is some mysterious yahoo article.

    Highly scientific for sure.

  8. #488
    Quote Originally Posted by Baar View Post
    Now compare populations.
    Really gonna do this? It is known fact that there are extremely many shootings, school shootings included, often resulting and bodily harm or death in the US. Many more than in any other civilized country. The only dispute is what the cause might be, logic dictates it be the presence of so many guns, however an opposing force, often with differing opinions to those who "believe in evolution" (as if it's something to believe in), has risen to say, no it's not the guns, it's videogames n stuff.

  9. #489
    Stood in the Fire Obtuse's Avatar
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    So I went to eat dinner and I see this discussion has really evolved over the last 15 pages. I have only one question.

    @ Rich, what are you hiding in that house of yours? Because these mystical unicorn superman ultra ninjas with Star Trek spy gear and Italian Job safe cracking skills seem to really want it.
    Obtuse and Obedient of Stormrage US

  10. #490
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by adam86shadow View Post
    I wouldn't want my child going to a school with armed men/women on every corner
    Well that's too bad there are police at every corner armed with guns along the way to the school.

  11. #491
    Quote Originally Posted by Shiny212 View Post
    Really gonna do this? It is known fact that there are extremely many shootings, school shootings included, often resulting and bodily harm or death in the US. Many more than in any other civilized country. The only dispute is what the cause might be, logic dictates it be the presence of so many guns, however an opposing force, often with differing opinions to those who "believe in evolution" (as if it's something to believe in), has risen to say, no it's not the guns, it's videogames n stuff.
    Do we really have to keep doing this? I think it has been mentioned at least once every second page. It's a comment from page 1, the thread is at page 25, I believe I already said once that 10 pages back is like 200 years in internet time, so 23 pages back is like 460 years ago. It's ancient, let it be

  12. #492
    I like how people want to solve gun problems with more guns.

    Then more problems arise and their answer will be even more guns.

    Talk about an arms race.

  13. #493
    Quote Originally Posted by Felya420 View Post
    Don't get me wrong, the perpetrator still suffers the full extent of the law. With alcohol, we already punish people and bars who sell alcohol or even give alcohol, to those they are not supposed to. Be it too young or too drunk. Same thing with drugs, a person who sells the drug causing an overdose, is persecuted for manslaughter. Insurance companies for cars already determine how much you should pay, based on your drinking record.
    Are you going to sue Bmw too? What about the manufacture of their air filters? Where does responsibility end?

  14. #494
    The Undying Cthulhu 2020's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eroginous View Post
    There's absolutely zero way for you to know this. Making assumptions doesn't help your argument.
    So a required-by law check would not be followed by a single person? Boy, you always were impressive at those mental gymnastics. Lots of things are illegal that are difficult to enforce, that doesn't mean it doesn't deter the behavior.


    Except we have an entire organization of professional people called police whose sole job is to investigate and capture criminals. If you kill someone, they investigate the death, figure out who did it, and then put that person in prison.
    Since you pretty consistently miss the point of every single thing you quote and just throw out a bunch of straw men to knock down, I'll just address this one. The point was that pretty much every single time a gun control law is proposed that really has no good counter argument against it, the fall back argument is "Well criminals won't follow the law, so why make laws anyway?"

    So by that logic, why should we make laws period, if people are just going to break them anyway? You can't argue against a law because some people will break it. If you can't make an argument against the merits of a law other than "Some people will break it!" you don't have an argument at all.

    I'm fully expecting for you to again completely miss the point and throw out another straw man. I mean you argued for several pages that knives were more deadly than guns FFS.
    Last edited by Cthulhu 2020; 2014-01-03 at 02:06 AM.
    "Nazis are like cats. If they like you, it's probably because you're feeding them." -John Oliver
    Quote Originally Posted by Knadra View Post
    I don't care if he committed tax fraud. Scoring political victories and crushing the aspirations of your political opponents is more important than adhering to moral principles.
    Knadra finally just admitting Trumpkins care more about political victories than morals.

  15. #495
    Quote Originally Posted by Rukentuts View Post
    Alarms also come free of the risk of hurting someone in your family, and are more effective at scary away burglars than someone trudging through a dark house half asleep in their boxers with a loaded firearm.

    They also work to protect your shit when you have to work.
    And lower your insurance costs in all likelihood.

    I'm actually supportive of the whole gun safe thing. Making it mandatory would be a little far, but the government could subsidize them by offering a coupon or a rebate to anyone who purchases a gun, making the decision to get a safe pretty easy.
    Why should the government take that expense? Gun ownership is a right, but its still absolutely a choice.

  16. #496
    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    I think you point the gun at them and tell them to surrender, and if for some reason they're insane enough not to comply you pull the trigger and hope for the best.



    In that case why don't spree killers use shotguns? Seeing as they're supposedly more effective.



    I don't know where that Canada stat comes from, I've heard it myself but I don't think it's correct.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_...ita_by_country

    Canada has less than 1/3rd the number of guns per capita, America has almost as many guns as people and is a massive outlier. I wonder if that statistic was originally "registered gun owners" or something.

    spree killing happens so rarely that its hard to really articulate anything more than they are mentally disturbed.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    In every other Western country we call those people "nutcases".



    It's unusually high in the US but as a proportion of the population yes, it's small. It's just particularly devastating when it does happen.

    Most gun deaths are caused by cheap handguns IIRC.



    That's actually not true, most illegal guns are via straw purchases, dodgy gun shop owners and the like. Theft accounts for like 15% of all illegal guns.

    http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl...ocon/guns.html

    But if you mean that the vast majority of illegal guns ultimately derive from legal sources, that is true.
    Its not an irrational though to think that your government might become corrupt and try to kill/steal from you. It happens everyday, someone in power shits on someone without it somewhere in the world. I don't really care, a foreigner has no say in how our country operates domestically and if they don't like our country they can stay in theirs.

  17. #497
    The Undying Cthulhu 2020's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by satimy View Post
    Are you going to sue Bmw too? What about the manufacture of their air filters? Where does responsibility end?
    I'd go ahead and say that the repercussions and purpose of owning a gun, and being under the influence of alcohol and/or drugs is very clear, where the use of a car is not to drive into people, it's to get you places.

    But then we start getting into the whole argument of the main function of a gun, and then we'll really see the mental gymnastics get broken out about how guns aren't made to hurt or kill, etc.
    "Nazis are like cats. If they like you, it's probably because you're feeding them." -John Oliver
    Quote Originally Posted by Knadra View Post
    I don't care if he committed tax fraud. Scoring political victories and crushing the aspirations of your political opponents is more important than adhering to moral principles.
    Knadra finally just admitting Trumpkins care more about political victories than morals.

  18. #498
    Void Lord Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Its not an irrational though to think that your government might become corrupt and try to kill/steal from you. It happens everyday, someone in power shits on someone without it somewhere in the world. I don't really care, a foreigner has no say in how our country operates domestically and if they don't like our country they can stay in theirs.
    They can criticize our government and it's laws if they want just like how we criticize any nation in the Middle East and say North Korea.
    #TeamLegion #UnderEarthofAzerothexpansion plz

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  19. #499
    The Undying Themius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Belize View Post
    Montreal is a shitty city btw. If you want somewhere quiet, take the 3 hours up north and move to Quebec. The most threatening thing there are old people driving.
    That is first choice Montreal after because less French isn't too bad from what I hear. My french is okay but I haven't really tried québécois.

  20. #500
    Seems like liberals commit more shootings, I dont know why that is, do you?

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