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  1. #521
    Void Lord Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obtuse View Post
    And yet you have a signature quote from Milton where he implicitly states that might is only half the battle?

    Edit: I guess my point is if you believe what Milton says (and it's a great quote) I would think an intellectual discussion on the other half of the battle would be worth it.
    Read the quote in my sig. I don't believe that for a second. I'm just pointing out the...insanity that MMO-Champion Off-topic loves to bring.
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  2. #522
    Stood in the Fire Obtuse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreatOak View Post
    Yeah? You have to be pro-violence to be pro-gun now? I'm a firm believer of non-aggression.
    Sorry didn't mean to come across as an asshat. That said, I obviously did.
    Okay so my question would be what is the non-aggressive part of guns? Guns are for one thing. Shooting something. Sadly I tie any gun to aggression. I know plenty of people who hunt up here and I get that they do it for sport and more importantly food. But they use a gun so they can hide in the background, and hopefully drop the buck in one shot. They may not be aggressive people but they use the guns for aggressive purposes and because nothing else packs a killing blow like a firearm.

    You may be a fucking sweet heart, but I don't see anything passive about a firearm.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    Read the quote in my sig. I don't believe that for a second. I'm just pointing out the...insanity that MMO-Champion Off-topic loves to bring.
    I'm usually pretty good at understanding context in his case I know they look at Milton as a respected author, and Paradise Lost is almost like The Odyssey and The Iliad in regards to it's place in our culture. I just thought it intriguing that someone who could see that there are two sides to the coin would state I'm pro this pro that against this etc, as it occurs to be a one sided approach.
    Obtuse and Obedient of Stormrage US

  3. #523
    Quote Originally Posted by Hooked View Post
    Ft. Hood shooter - Registered Democrat – Muslim

    Columbine shooters - Too young to vote but both families were registered
    Democrats and progressive liberals.

    Virginia Tech shooter - Registered Democrat - Wrote hate mail to President
    Bush and to his staff.

    Colorado Theater shooter - Registered Democrat; staff worker on the Obama
    campaign; Occupy Wall Street participant; progressive liberal.

    Connecticut School Shooter - Registered Democrat; hated Christians.

    Congresswoman Gabby Giffords’ shooter – Leftist, registered Democrat.
    Stop trying to tie violence with political beliefs, they aren't really the driving factor in mass shootings.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    They can criticize our government and it's laws if they want just like how we criticize any nation in the Middle East and say North Korea.
    Hows that working out for us?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    It's like an arms race with yourself!



    And have access to guns.



    And if you ever want to live in a sane country you're welcome to come to ours

    The idea that you can't depend on the police to protect you and need to be armed at all times in a modern Western country is either irrational, or if it is rational, a sign that you need to move the fuck out of whatever neighbourhood you live in.
    1. Everyone has access to guns in America, Lanza stole the gun from his mother. So even if you banned insane people from buying guns, they could still steal them from non insane people. Not to mention the black market. Id say the black market is very small to non existent in Australia because you are an island.

    2. Police have never really been responsible for a persons protection, they are there to enforce the rules of the state. If a robber breaks into your house the police response time isn't going to be fast enough to get there even in a good neighborhood.

  4. #524
    The Insane Masark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by madmanx View Post
    Against: Canadians have slightly more fire arms per capita than Americans and their gun related violence is in line with most of western Europe and far below the US.
    Key thing to note there : We have a hell of a lot of rifles and shotguns. We have very few handguns and owning a gun of any kind requires licensing, with more stringent licensing for handguns. Carrying a gun around, loaded and fireable, requires further licensing and pretty much doesn't happen outside of employment needs or exceptional circumstances.

    Warning : Above post may contain snark and/or sarcasm. Try reparsing with the /s argument before replying.
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  5. #525
    I am Murloc! GreatOak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obtuse View Post
    Sorry didn't mean to come across as an asshat. That said, I obviously did.
    Okay so my question would be what is the non-aggressive part of guns? Guns are for one thing. Shooting something. Sadly I tie any gun to aggression. I know plenty of people who hunt up here and I get that they do it for sport and more importantly food. But they use a gun so they can hide in the background, and hopefully drop the buck in one shot. They may not be aggressive people but they use the guns for aggressive purposes and because nothing else packs a killing blow like a firearm.

    You may be a fucking sweet heart, but I don't see anything passive about a firearm.
    I'll try to answer as best as I can even though Ive been up since 4 am and need to sleep.

    I'm definitely against the aggressive use of guns against other people (general crime, police brutality, war, etc). I'm not against self-defense or reasonable hunting (which is an entirely different debate imo). They're two different things. Aggression involves violating another person's rights in my opinion. Using a gun in self-defense isn't aggression. Even though I see nothing morally wrong with killing in self-defense, it's still not something that I generally take delight in. I don't like death but it's just the reality we live in. Sure I'm happy for the person who protected herself and may even be glad that the person who died didn't hurt anyone else, but I think it's always better to avoid unnecessary death if possible.

    That's just a small part of my stance on guns. There are also practical reasons, cultural reasons, and reasons stemming from our civil liberties. I realize other countries have different beliefs on gun ownership so I respect them, even if I may wildly disagree.



    I'm usually pretty good at understanding context in his case I know they look at Milton as a respected author, and Paradise Lost is almost like The Odyssey and The Iliad in regards to it's place in our culture. I just thought it intriguing that someone who could see that there are two sides to the coin would state I'm pro this pro that against this etc, as it occurs to be a one sided approach.
    Being pro-gun doesn't mean I'm anti-life (Not to be confused with the "pro-life" anti-abortion stance as I'm not talking about abortion). It's just a figure of speech and a quick way to say that you're generally in favor of something. I like the quote because as you said, it shows that there is more than violence; that it never solves all of your problems. I also like it because it's in one of my favorite books.
    In the fell clutch of circumstance
    I have not winced nor cried aloud.
    Under the bludgeonings of chance
    My head is bloody, but unbowed.

  6. #526
    Mechagnome BEYR's Avatar
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    An armed response, however small and/or unorganized, has proven to immediately end mass shootings in the US. Every single one that has met with an armed response ended with wither the shooter(s) immediately surrendering or killing themselves. That should probably be a much more publicized fact.
    You either die a Varian, or live long enough to see yourself become a Thrall...

  7. #527
    I am Murloc! GreatOak's Avatar
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    One more thing. I read about The Liberal Gun Club today.

    http://www.mediaite.com/online/%E2%8...sts-hates-nra/

    This is what we need. I hope people support them. We need more liberals to stand up
    In the fell clutch of circumstance
    I have not winced nor cried aloud.
    Under the bludgeonings of chance
    My head is bloody, but unbowed.

  8. #528
    It's hard to swallow when you see a staunch, anti-gun politician like Bloomberg hiring his own personal armed guards.

    When you will walk around without the protection of a firearm, so will I.

  9. #529
    The Undying Cthulhu 2020's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmt View Post
    It's hard to swallow when you see a staunch, anti-gun politician like Bloomberg hiring his own personal armed guards.

    When you will walk around without the protection of a firearm, so will I.
    McVeigh blew up a government building because he felt the second amendment had come under attack.

    When people stop being psychotic about guns...
    Last edited by Cthulhu 2020; 2014-01-03 at 05:54 AM.
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  10. #530
    Void Lord Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreatOak View Post
    One more thing. I read about The Liberal Gun Club today.

    http://www.mediaite.com/online/%E2%8...sts-hates-nra/

    This is what we need. I hope people support them. We need more liberals to stand up
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  11. #531
    I think it should be a requirement, like security guards, to know how to shoot a gun if you're a teacher. You should be background checked and carry one on your side at all times. I guarantee there would never be another school shooting in the United States.

  12. #532
    Quote Originally Posted by Decklan View Post
    McVeigh blew up a government building because he felt the second amendment had come over attack.

    When people stop being psychotic about guns...
    You clearly have no idea what youre talking about McVeigh. He blew up a government building in retaliation of what happened at ruby ridge and waco.

  13. #533
    Quote Originally Posted by jmt View Post
    It's hard to swallow when you see a staunch, anti-gun politician like Bloomberg hiring his own personal armed guards.

    When you will walk around without the protection of a firearm, so will I.
    When gun nuts stop shooting their enemies maybe he will.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tojara View Post
    Look Batman really isn't an accurate source by any means
    Quote Originally Posted by Hooked View Post
    It is a fact, not just something I made up.

  14. #534
    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    When gun nuts stop shooting their enemies maybe he will.
    Who are these "gun nuts" you speak of? Because most people I know that own guns have never shot a person in their life. In fact, statistically speaking, legal gun owners are the least likely to commit a crime.

  15. #535
    Quote Originally Posted by satimy View Post
    You clearly have no idea what youre talking about McVeigh. He blew up a government building in retaliation of what happened at ruby ridge and waco.
    McVeigh was introduced to firearms by his grandfather. He told people he wanted to be a gun shop owner and sometimes took firearms to school to impress his classmates. McVeigh became intensely interested in gun rights after he graduated from high school, as well as the Second Amendment to the United States Constitution, and read magazines such as Soldier of Fortune
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_McVeigh

    His fascination with guns proved more lasting. McVeigh became obsessed with reading about survivalism and Second Amendment issues. He acquired several guns, and set up a generator and a store of canned food and potable water in his basement so that he would be self-sufficient in case of emergency. One of the books he read, The Turner Diaries, a racist novel popular in neo-Nazi and militia circles about an angry man who blows up the FBI building in Washington, would become a long-time favorite.
    http://edition.cnn.com/2007/US/law/1...hive.mcveigh2/

    Around this time he first read The Turner Diaries (1978), an antigovernment, neo-Nazi tract written by William Pierce. The book, which details the truck-bombing of the Washington, D.C., headquarters of the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI), fueled McVeigh’s paranoia about a government plot to repeal the Second Amendment of the U.S. Constitution, which guarantees the right “to keep and bear arms.”
    http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/...imothy-McVeigh

    I'd say gun rights was part of his agenda/delusion/whatever you want to call it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Heineken View Post
    Who are these "gun nuts" you speak of? Because most people I know that own guns have never shot a person in their life. In fact, statistically speaking, legal gun owners are the least likely to commit a crime.
    "Gun nuts" is intended to refer specifically to those who have guns and are nuts, not to imply that all gun owners are nuts.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tojara View Post
    Look Batman really isn't an accurate source by any means
    Quote Originally Posted by Hooked View Post
    It is a fact, not just something I made up.

  16. #536
    The Undying Cthulhu 2020's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by satimy View Post
    You clearly have no idea what youre talking about McVeigh. He blew up a government building in retaliation of what happened at ruby ridge and waco.
    Which had to do with...

    Here, do some reading: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_McVeigh

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    Quote Originally Posted by Heineken View Post
    Who are these "gun nuts" you speak of? Because most people I know that own guns have never shot a person in their life. In fact, statistically speaking, legal gun owners are the least likely to commit a crime.
    Citation required.

    Statistically speaking, a gun is more likely to be used on a loved one than someone seeking to do you harm.
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  17. #537
    Quote Originally Posted by adam86shadow View Post
    Or ban guns? Seriously how many school shootings do you hear about in Europe
    Many more then there are in America actually...they just don't get the wall to wall media coverage it gets over here, so it gets glossed over and European countries try to pretend they didn't happen

  18. #538
    I'm very late to the party, but I don't see in the article linked by the OP where the suggestion is that schools should have armed/trained security. Am I right in thinking that is a leap in logic by the poster? The article pretty clearly states that there needs to be a shift toward training patrol officers - regular cops who are first responders - in better managing the situation before SWAT arrives.

    The only person who is quoted as stating that it has anything to do with a security guard was a colorado sheriff.

  19. #539
    Quote Originally Posted by Heineken View Post
    I think it should be a requirement, like security guards, to know how to shoot a gun if you're a teacher. You should be background checked and carry one on your side at all times. I guarantee there would never be another school shooting in the United States.
    no.....just no... and I am a staunch advocate of the right to bear arms, but that is a ridiculous step. They are TEACHERS, not police officers...not soldiers...not trained security. Their job is to TEACH. I would support (but don't necessarily advocate for, I would want to see the cost of, and where that money would come from) an armed guard in schools, but to say the teachers should all be armed is silly

  20. #540
    Quote Originally Posted by Decklan View Post
    Which had to do with...

    Here, do some reading: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_McVeigh

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    Citation required.

    Statistically speaking, a gun is more likely to be used on a loved one than someone seeking to do you harm.
    You need the citation homes. Ok statistically speaking how many legal gun owners do you think are in this country that commit murders?. I can guarantee you that the amount of illegal gun owners committing murder is a higher percentage than legal gun owners.

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