Should men have the right, for legal-abortion?

[Damsbo]

There's been this case in the media lately here in Denmark, where a guy, for the past 5 years, has tried to legally get an "abortion".
His story is, that he was "tricked" into having a baby. It isn't specified in what way he was tricked by the woman, but to roughly quote him: "I feel like I'm an involuntary sperm donor".

The discussion going on, is then; should men have a right in the matter - and be able to get a legal abortion, where they give up everything that has something to do with the child. This also means, that they would not have to pay child support.

So, what are your thoughts on the subject? Should men be able to opt out having a baby?


Link, in danish. http://nyhederne.tv2.dk/samfund/2014...kede-b%C3%B8rn

Edit. I feel the need to specify, as some seem to misunderstand. By LEGAL abort, I dont mean a legal act of physical intervention to the womans pregnancy. But rather a legal act of "signing off. Having nothing to do, in all aspects; with the baby". As in, "Fine you want to keep it, but I do not. You can raise it if you want, but I wont be involved in any way. Including financially".

[Deleted]

yes, why shouldn't men have that?

[Stir]

Yes. When abortion is an option, the woman can decide, by herself, to remove or keep it. The man cannot choose to keep it if she doesn't want to, but he should be able to choose not to keep it.

My proposition: A male needs to sign a document stating he wants the child before the term for abortion is up. If he does not sign before that date, he has no obligation to the child.

This proposition has some drawbacks: It would mean that he would also have no right to the child, meaning that the woman can keep him away from his child by not providing the information of her pregnancy.
On the other hand, a male cannot be forced to become a father by the woman withholding information, either. It's not perfect, and male parental rights and options are still limited this way, but the limits should be reduced to create at least as much equality as possible.

Edit: Also, for clarity, a male who signs is a father, and has obligation to the child. That should reduce deadbeat fathers, which is why I propose this solution instead of allowing men to just walk away when they feel like it. If she wants a child, but does not want to raise her child by herself, and he refuses to sign, the woman should still have the option of opting out herself, which is why the document must be signed before her term (for abortion) is up.

[Zoranon]

Yes, equality is equality.

[PaladinBash]

If a woman can, why not? I'm all for equal rights. I don't think a man should be able to force her into killing the baby if she doesn't want to, but if he doesn't want it then he should have the legal right to 'sign off' on it and not have to pay child support and have no rights over it. Women get abortions because they can't afford to look after the kid so why can't a man do the same? If he doesn't want it because he doesn't want to pay for it, that's as fair as a woman doing it so I don't see the issue here. If it's irresponsible for a man to go around getting chicks up the duff and then not have to pay for it, how is it any different from a woman doing the exact same thing...which is perfectly legal for an abortion. Equal rights I say. No free gravy trains for women.

[Deleted]

Yes they should, the system is bullshit to screw men over.
If a woman wants a kid and the guy doesn't, she keeps it and he has to pay child support,
if a woman doesn't want it and the guy does, she gets rid of it. Sure its her body and she should have the ultimate decision on that, but when it comes down to the guy not wanting it, he should definitely not be made to pay for child support by law. Hear stories all the time about woman having a kid with some guy getting pregnant then fucking him over for 18 years. it needs to stop

[Calzaeth]

I wouldn't oppose such an option, but my thinking is that if you don't want a kid, then don't have unprotected sex.

It is gloriously simple, no?

[Deleted]

I wouldn't oppose such an option, but my thinking is that if you don't want a kid, then don't have unprotected sex.

It is gloriously simple, no?

and if the woman say she's using contraceptives what then?

[obdigore]

Nope.

Once the child is its own being, it changes from 'mens' or 'womens' rights to the rights of that child.

[Mikael123]

No. Having intercourse with a woman, may result in a child. It is the parents responsibility to take care of that child. If a man is not willing to take the risk of becoming a father, then don't have sex unprotected. It is in the best interest of the child to have both a father and a mother who supports it. I care about the child first and foremost.

[Deleted]

Nope.

Once the child is its own being, it changes from 'mens' or 'womens' rights to the rights of that child.

why should the child have any right to the mans money for support because the woman decided to keep it?

[Stir]

Nope.

Once the child is its own being, it changes from 'mens' or 'womens' rights to the rights of that child.

I disagree.

Responsibility is an important thing, and the right of one person to choose should NEVER impede on the freedom of another person. Which is what you're proposing. The child's right to be taken care of exists, but responsibility for that right should fall to the one(s) making the choice to put it on the earth.

No. Having intercourse with a woman, may result in a child. It is the parents responsibility to take care of that child. If a man is not willing to take the risk of becoming a father, then don't have sex unprotected. It is in the best interest of the child to have both a father and a mother who supports it.

Well; isn't this incredibly male-centric? Women have as much responsibility for having sex as men do, you know. This argument can be used as argument against abortion. 'Well; she chose to have sex with a man, which results in babbies, so screw her.'
At least: If could be used as an argument against abortion if you didn't ignore women's power and responsibility for their own actions entirely in favour of a male-centric point of view.

[obdigore]

why does the child have any right to the mans money for support because the woman decided to keep it?

A child is going to have more opportunities and be more adjusted if it is able to spend more time with parents and doesn't have to deal with stuff like starving or being alone all the time, or not having shoes.

Your selfish 'its my money and no one else gets any, regardless of the choices I make' opinion is noted and properly discarded.

- - - Updated - - -

I disagree.

Responsibility is an important thing, and the right of one person to choose should NEVER impede on the freedom of another person. Which is what you're proposing. The child's right to be taken care of exists, but responsibility for that right should fall to the one(s) making the choice to put it on the earth.

You made that choice when you didn't wrap your tool, or had sex with a woman you didn't trust, but believed her anyway.

[Deleted]

A child is going to have more opportunities and be more adjusted if it is able to spend more time with parents and doesn't have to deal with stuff like starving or being alone all the time, or not having shoes.

a child won't starve in the country i live in unless the parent(s) spend welfare money on drugs or other stupid things instead of food or not have shoes, you don't have to buy the most expensive brand, i never did

just because you force the man to support the child with money does not mean he will spend time with the child.

Your selfish 'its my money and no one else gets any, regardless of the choices I make' opinion is noted and properly discarded.

it's not that simple.

[obdigore]

a child won't starve in the country i live in unless the parent(s) spend welfare money on drugs or other stupid things instead of food or not have shoes, you don't have to buy the most expensive brand, i never did

just because you force the man to support the child with money does not mean he will spend time with the child.

I didn't say the man would spend time with the child. Stop thinking only about yourself. It is that simple.

Protip: Women get the choice of abortion because it is a bodily autonomy issue. Men don't because literally nothing happens inside their body.

I know it is hard for MRA'ers to realize that situations differ, but there it is.

[Stir]

You made that choice when you didn't wrap your tool, or had sex with a woman you didn't trust, but believed her anyway.

No. She made that choice when she decided to keep it. We have an equal choice when engaging in intercourse, but we do not have an equal choice in having a child. Therefore, our equal choice for sex is entirely negated since they cancel on another out, and only her choice remains.

Logc.

[Deleted]

Yes, equality is equality.

Equality ?! Ahahahahahahahaha.

What does it take a man to conceive a child ? About 5 min (more or less).
What does it take as a woman to conceive a child ? About 9 months, hormonal issues and ultimately lots of pain and blood. And then she's kinda stuck with it for the next +18 years.

NO! Men should not be able to ditch the responsibility.

[Azutael]

Takes 2 people to make a baby (the conventional way, anyway) so yes. The father should have just as much right as the mother.

I wouldn't oppose such an option, but my thinking is that if you don't want a kid, then don't have unprotected sex.

And of course there is that.

[obdigore]

No. She made that choice when she decided to keep it. We have an equal choice when engaging in intercourse, but we do not have an equal choice in having a child. Therefore, our equal choice for sex is entirely negated since they cancel on another out, and only her choice remains.

Logc.

Yes. The situation is different. She has one extra choice than you because everything happens in her body.

Logic.

[Deleted]

I didn't say the man would spend time with the child. Stop thinking only about yourself. It is that simple.

Protip: Women get the choice of abortion because it is a bodily autonomy issue. Men don't because literally nothing happens inside their body.

I know it is hard for MRA'ers to realize that situations differ, but there it is.

MRA'ers? you think just because i don't buy into the concept of women forcing men to pay child support by keeping a fetus even though they don't want that makes me mra? lol