[BrM] Ask Mr. Robot stat weights

[Geodew]

So with the default weights in Ask Mr. Robot (for any of the defaults, but I'm using the Stam & Mastery one because I'm undergeared and inexperienced and mostly tank Flex where the DPS from Crit isn't needed), Agility is so high that it's telling me to gem agi/mastery in red slots as opposed to expertise/mastery. That doesn't sound right, since Agility gives a bit of attack power (negligible compared to Vengeance, right?), a small amount of crit (can get more from expertise) and some dodge (not super helpful; doesn't help for worst-case-scenario). What stat weights do you guys use?

[Promdates]

Crit gives you more than just DPS. It gives you survival via Elusive Brew stacks.

[Geodew]

Crit gives you more than just DPS. It gives you survival via Elusive Brew stacks.

I'm aware, but the survivability difference seems negligible to me, since even 6-8 seconds of +dodge in a row is enough to recover from a large spike, and any more than that seems overkill or unhelpful.

[Hugme]

I cleared 14/14 NM with
Agi (1.2) > Exp cap 15% = Hit Cap 7.5% (0.85) > Haste 8000 (0.8) > Crit (0.7) = Mastery (0.7) > Armor (0.68) > Stam (0.4) > Dodge (0.3) = Parry (0.3) > AP (0.25) > Haste 8000+ (0.2).

Tl;dr: High haste, Crit = Mastery.

[Deleted]

Hi,

I'm going with the following stat priority: http://i.imgur.com/iz8v6RU.jpg
This results in matching the socket bonuses, having 20% buffed Mastery, 5k Haste and the rest goes on Crit. Red sockets are filled with Agi/xxx Hybrids.

My Armory page is in my signature if you want to check it.

I hope it helps,
Szensa

[allaiva]

Personally, in AMR I'd turn agi down a fair bit. 1.0 or less. Unless you're going to swap to WW a lot, the agi doesn't help as much as pure crit gems or pure mastery. Using hybrid gems like hit/x or expertise/x to fit socket bonuses is useful so you can gain even more secondary stats. I think my weights are 0.7 crit, 0.65 mastery, haste soft cap of 5000, and just manually try to keep mastery around 10-11k. Dodge gains from agi are strong when totaled from your gear, but +80 agi here and there won't make a huge difference. The higher your crit, the better you can keep EB up closer to 100% while tanking, which is much better than probably 1-2% additional dodge from agi gains from gems you might recieve. The higher your mastery, the better your damage smoothing is. And vengeance is a much more significant contributor of AP than your agi gems are most of the time.

[Deleted]

Yeah, you are absolutely right, the reason I still use Agi Hybrids is, that it hurts my eyes if I see any missed socket bonus. Convincing myself to go for a lower Agi priority, if I set it below 0.9 or something AMR instantly swaps out all my Hybrids to Yellows (either Crit or Mastery).

We had a discussion about this a few weeks ago, and the results were the following:
http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...-maths-please!

Overall it doesn't seem to be a very high Crit chance jump (1-2%) if I'd swap out my Hybrids, in the other hand I'd lose a few percents of raw Dodge, which isn't sigificant compared to the higher EB uptime I'd gain from pure Crit gems.

Tl;DR
You are right, pure Crit gems > Hybrids
I'm dumb.
I will change.

Szensa ;P

[Geodew]

Thanks for the input, everyone. I have set it to 0.9 and it's even ignoring red slots for +60 crit bonus. Does that sound right?

[Deleted]

Without doing the exact maths:

Smooth Sun's Radiance = 320 crit rating = .53% crit
Deadly Vermilion Onyx = 80 Agi + 160 Crit = (((80*1.05)/1259.5)+(160/600)) (.06+.26) .32% Crit

If you are going for mass Crit, a pure Yellow still seems to be better, since the socket bonus will only give you 60 Crit rating assuming you are talking about an 1-socketed ring.

[Geodew]

Without doing the exact maths:

Smooth Sun's Radiance = 320 crit rating = .53% crit
Deadly Vermilion Onyx = 80 Agi + 160 Crit = (((80*1.05)/1259.5)+(160/600)) (.06+.26) .32% Crit

If you are going for mass Crit, a pure Yellow still seems to be better, since the socket bonus will only give you 60 Crit rating assuming you are talking about an 1-socketed ring.

And then 60 crit is 0.1% crit, right, ok.
If you recall I said I was actually using a Mastery build, but I guess that explains some intuition behind why Agi can be so bad. Thanks

[allaiva]

Crit or mastery, you're better off just going for secondary stats with gems. If you need to reach the expertise cap feel free to gem for that if you want to grab socket bonus' as you really won't lose anything using 160exp/160crit or 160exp/160mastery.

[Shamanberry]

Wherever possible, you can and should use expertise hybrid gems to match socket bonuses rather than agi, and then reforge it off gear to gain more of your favorite stat. The only exception would be when you literally have reforged every instance of expertise off your gear. At that point, you can debate the merits of an agi hybrid + the socket bonus vs the benefit of the extra secondary stats... but that's usually a pretty minor concern.

[Geodew]

Wherever possible, you can and should use expertise hybrid gems to match socket bonuses rather than agi, and then reforge it off gear to gain more of your favorite stat. The only exception would be when you literally have reforged every instance of expertise off your gear. At that point, you can debate the merits of an agi hybrid + the socket bonus vs the benefit of the extra secondary stats... but that's usually a pretty minor concern.

I see. Well, even if it's a small difference, I'd still want to know what's optimal ;P Thanks

[zurm]

Wherever possible, you can and should use expertise hybrid gems to match socket bonuses rather than agi, and then reforge it off gear to gain more of your favorite stat. The only exception would be when you literally have reforged every instance of expertise off your gear. At that point, you can debate the merits of an agi hybrid + the socket bonus vs the benefit of the extra secondary stats... but that's usually a pretty minor concern.

If using ask mr robot, this kind of blanket statement is unnecessary. It calculates the most efficient combination of gems + reforging + enchants by default; sometimes it IS more efficient to use agi gems to get closer to the caps.

[Rockets]

I found out this morning that AMR added softcaps for mastery and crit at some point, under the advanced options in the Edit Stat Weights. My weights are now something like this (estimated numbers since apparently my settings are saved per-browser and I'm not at my home computer):

weapon DPS: 7.0
agi: 1.3
hit/exp: 0.9
haste (5.5k): 0.8
mastery (16%): 0.75
crit: 0.7
armor: 0.65
mastery (>16%): 0.6
haste (>5.5k): 0.3
stamina: 0.2
dodge/parry: 0.0

Obviously you should tweak the softcaps depending on your taste for haste and the content you're doing for mastery. But the crucial part is to have all your uncapped haste/mastery/crit/hit/exp weights be more than half of the agi weight; that way it will prefer secondary stats for gems wherever possible.

I'm still stuck using a H-Renataki's for one of my trinkets, so I have a bunch of agi/X orange gems at the moment, but AMR will replace those all with expertise/X once I finally get a TED.

[Geodew]

I found out this morning that AMR added softcaps for mastery and crit at some point, under the advanced options in the Edit Stat Weights. My weights are now something like this (estimated numbers since apparently my settings are saved per-browser and I'm not at my home computer):

weapon DPS: 7.0
agi: 1.3
hit/exp: 0.9
haste (5.5k): 0.8
mastery (16%): 0.75
crit: 0.7
armor: 0.65
mastery (>16%): 0.6
haste (>5.5k): 0.3
stamina: 0.2
dodge/parry: 0.0

Obviously you should tweak the softcaps depending on your taste for haste and the content you're doing for mastery. But the crucial part is to have all your uncapped haste/mastery/crit/hit/exp weights be more than half of the agi weight; that way it will prefer secondary stats for gems wherever possible.

I'm still stuck using a H-Renataki's for one of my trinkets, so I have a bunch of agi/X orange gems at the moment, but AMR will replace those all with expertise/X once I finally get a TED.

-Already know about how to set weights such that AMR does or doesn't use Agi hybrids. My question was more, "Is Agility good enough that Agi hybrids are worth using?"

-Is Stamina actually that bad or is that weight personal preference? I did some estimation awhile back and 1 stam looked almost as good for EH as 1 Mastery...?

-Heads up that AMR is no longer guaranteed optimal once you add more than 3 hard OR soft caps I think (and you have 4, don't forget hit/exp). But of course it will always get you close-ish.

[Promdates]

-Already know about how to set weights such that AMR does or doesn't use Agi hybrids. My question was more, "Is Agility good enough that Agi hybrids are worth using?"

For brewmasters, not really. I did the math in another thread and determined that the minor AP and doge you would gain from agi, doesn't out weight the crit gain or mastery gain by using non-agi gems.

-Is Stamina actually that bad or is that weight personal preference? I did some estimation awhile back and 1 stam looked almost as good for EH as 1 Mastery...?

If you're going for EH, you should go with mastery over stamina. Unless you're doing undergeared content OR the boss is 100% magical damage (fuck you Lei Shi), the stamina on your items should be enough. If you need more use stam food/flasks and as a last resort stam trinkets. Never gem/enchant for stamina. Ever.

-Heads up that AMR is no longer guaranteed optimal once you add more than 3 hard OR soft caps I think (and you have 4, don't forget hit/exp). But of course it will always get you close-ish.

AMR won't let you put more than 3 caps (Hit/Exp, Haste, Crit or mastery). If anything, you should either put a cap on how much crit you want, then go mastery... or put a cap on mastery then go crit. Your Hit/Exp and Haste caps should always be the first ones you set.

[Hugme]

For brewmasters, not really. I did the math in another thread and determined that the minor AP and doge you would gain from agi, doesn't out weight the crit gain or mastery gain by using non-agi gems.

This is good information. I found the math you did for the Stam+Crit + 120 agi bonus vs. Crit gems. I assume that this is still applicable for Agi+Crit + 120agi bonus? (That Crit/Mastery from yellow gems > Agi mixed gems + socket bonus)

To answer your question though, about whether crit/stam x2 +120agi is better than 2x crit gems just look at what you would gain by going for socket bonus.

((120*1.05)*2)=252ap + ((120*1.05)/1259.5)=.10% crit + ((160*2)/600)=.53% crit = 252ap and .63% crit

vs

((320*2)/600)=1.06% crit

[Rockets]

AMR won't let you put more than 3 caps (Hit/Exp, Haste, Crit or mastery). If anything, you should either put a cap on how much crit you want, then go mastery... or put a cap on mastery then go crit. Your Hit/Exp and Haste caps should always be the first ones you set.

This was part of my point; AMR actually lets you add more softcaps now if you go into the Advanced section of the stat weights. I have four currently: hit, exp, haste and mastery. I don't remember that being possible when I last looked, so I was pointing that out as being a Thing now.

It's also not giving me any warnings about possibly being inaccurate with these settings, which I do remember seeing previously.

e: Oh okay, it's just that it isn't showing the GUARANTEED OPTIMAL message like it normally does. I'd kind of like it better if it was the other way around, where it gives you a note about NOT GUARANTEED, but oh well.

e2: To answer the question, yeah, no, you want to use expertise as your red color for gems, not agi. But it's not necessarily uncommon to have too much expertise on your gear to do that everywhere; the T16 set has expertise on every piece, and if you've been unlucky with trinket drops then you might still be using a Renataki's too.

Ditto you want to be using hit for blue, not stamina. Mastery's useful for more than pure EH, as its damage-smoothing effect is also really good.