bm>surv now o.O

[Azortharion]

The majority of BM's AOE dmg is from beast cleave, not multishot.
Point and case, http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/8...?s=1268&e=1546 - take a look at my multi shot damage (8.8M), vs my Beast Cleave damage (33.5M). Haromms doesn't even begin to pull ahead even on an AOE-encounter, TED is still quite a bit superior as it affects the pet who does five times as much AOE damage as you do.
(also, screw you guys and your fancy gear. I was 569 in that log, I know the dps is low <.<).

Yes.. I didn't mention/mean to make the point that Multi-Shot > Beast Cleave on AoE damage, but using Multi-Shot sort of.. Activates Beast Cleave.

And both trinkets give Agility which affects pets the same but I might be misunderstanding (if you mean the passive mastery fair point though I think Multistrike sorta wins that out..).

I might be misunderstanding 140% though.

[Theelol]

Well so i was actually right anyway, newest sim of t16with bis shows BM higher than surv

[Dracodraco]

Yes.. I didn't mention/mean to make the point that Multi-Shot > Beast Cleave on AoE damage, but using Multi-Shot sort of.. Activates Beast Cleave.

And both trinkets give Agility which affects pets the same but I might be misunderstanding (if you mean the passive mastery fair point though I think Multistrike sorta wins that out..).

I might be misunderstanding 140% though.

Yea, you said that due to spending more time multishotting, Multistrike passive would win out over the 1.5K mastery / 1K haste passive from TED. Either that, or I read wrong. Either way, I doubt that's the case as the mastery would be ~5% pet damage and haste is now BM's strongest stat (but hard to give an exact number - more haste, more BC hits cos faster swing timer, though).

A heroic Haromms has a 14% chance to strike for 33% dmg, which means it's 4.7% dmg or so from the proc (on average).
Using my above log, 217.5K of my dps was not from my pet - 4.7% of that is about 10K dps.
Alternatively, my pet did 256K dps, and subtracting 5% from that would be 13K dps lost. That's not counting the haste from TED, by the way.
Also - I'm not sure, but can Haromms even proc from my meta gem and legendary cloak? If not, that's an even smaller amount of DPS it provides.
Also2 - Mastery affects my Stampede, right? because that's another 28K dps.

[Deleted]

I'm not sure, but can Haromms even proc from my meta gem and legendary cloak?

Slightly off-topic but I quickly wanted to respond to this anyway. I did a ton of testing on the 5.4 PTR regarding trinkets and Haromm's used to proc from everything besides pet and guardian attacks. This includes Murder of Crows, cloaks, Explosive Trap, Glaive Toss, meta gems, engineering bombs and other things I can't even remember anymore. Since I've only just gotten Haromms on live* I haven't properly tested everything yet but I don't think anything has changed. Although small sidenote, Piercing Shot does not proc Haromms for as far as I could tell. Haven't done much proper testing yet on Marksmanship but after 200 ticks it still hasn't procced. Small sample size but... come on it has 18% chance to trigger.

*Absolute unbelievable, been clearing since the raid opened and we've seen like 2 of them so far on 25 man. I had to coin mine

[anjan011]

Slightly off-topic but I quickly wanted to respond to this anyway. I did a ton of testing on the 5.4 PTR regarding trinkets and Haromm's used to proc from everything besides pet and guardian attacks. This includes Murder of Crows, cloaks, Explosive Trap, Glaive Toss, meta gems, engineering bombs and other things I can't even remember anymore. Since I've only just gotten Haromms on live* I haven't properly tested everything yet but I don't think anything has changed. Although small sidenote, Piercing Shot does not proc Haromms for as far as I could tell. Haven't done much proper testing yet on Marksmanship but after 200 ticks it still hasn't procced. Small sample size but... come on it has 18% chance to trigger.

*Absolute unbelievable, been clearing since the raid opened and we've seen like 2 of them so far on 25 man. I had to coin mine

I coined Harroms on my alt, while my main hunter is still proud bearer of the flex one, for BM i m rocking an LFR TED (which btw i got 4, 2x in 2 runs)

[Deleted]

and haste is now BM's strongest stat

Huh? Elaborate please!

[Fez]

Bit of a random in here but playing BM has anyone tested or have any concrete answer as to whether you gain DPS when keeping beast cleave up on just two targets (as an example shamans normal) or would you just keep it up on two plus targets?

[Dracodraco]

Huh? Elaborate please!

Not much to elaborate. At +570 Ilvl, stat priority has changed to Haste>Crit=mastery for me. Guessing Mastery pulls slightly ahead on AOE as more of my damage is based from my pet.

[Frozenhawk]

From what I've seen haste pulls way ahead in aoe compared to the other 2 stats, mastery being somewhat behind haste and then crit being the worst stat.

[Dracodraco]

From what I've seen haste pulls way ahead in aoe compared to the other 2 stats, mastery being somewhat behind haste and then crit being the worst stat.

Meant mastery ahead of crit for AOE, not ahead of haste :P. So yea, echoing what you said.

[Deleted]

Actually, best BM hunter is ahead of best Surv hunter on shamans. And on Nazgrim.

But BM has been ahead of Surv since forever, basicly - the differnece, however, has been so small that it has been almost neglible which spec you chose (in the 1% difference range).
Also, for any hunter with AoC+Haromms instead of AoC+TEB, Surv would be ahead of BM as your pets attacks can not trigger multistrike (AKA more than half your damage won't proc the trinket).

Well after hotfix things dint change much we are 2 hunters in raid i play most svv other play most BM the other dude have better brust on start but over time i go ahead no mater of fight. We both have haromm which can drop his overall dps maybe but he got more pieces of HC WF gear. Sadly mine guild stuck on bloody Malkorok so no insane Hnter loot from there yet

[Master Guns]

I get a bit better sustained DPS out of BM now that I have 4 piece, yeah.

[Libertarian]

Meant mastery ahead of crit for AOE, not ahead of haste :P. So yea, echoing what you said.

The funny part is BM has actually simmed higher than SV this entire tier, but the problem was many hunters assumed crit > haste > mastery was the best stat allocation. And not only that haste > mastery > crit is easier to play. Plus BM in general just feels better to me because you have more control over your damage when you need it, rather than hoping lock and load procs to give you the damage you need.

[zenyatta]

Omg, just play what you enjoy the most. Hate this "i cant play this spec because the other ones are better" attitude.
I play MM and i would never switch to BM because i think it's boring as hell. MM all the way!

Ok, I'll play MM and intentionally gimp my raid! They don't need that extra DPS right? Pft, enrage timers, adds... I'm playing what I like, I don't care about any of that!

[Sandwrong]

I get a bit better sustained DPS out of BM now that I have 4 piece, yeah.

That... makes no sense at all, since BM 4 piece is a burst bonus, linked to Bestial Wrath, a 1 min CD with a 10 sec duration.... More likely that AoC helped sustain your DPS, letting you use BW more often.

[donzo]

Tried out BM on malkorok with crit > haste > mastery since I'm main survival, got about 572ilvl with aoc/ted hc (not warforged gg) did about 365k dps and I haven't played BM in long time :l atleast yeah bm does great dps now.

also I ran with TotH instead of DB

[Deleted]

Not much to elaborate. At +570 Ilvl, stat priority has changed to Haste>Crit=mastery for me. Guessing Mastery pulls slightly ahead on AOE as more of my damage is based from my pet.

What about Barrage vs GT?
Last time i used Barrage was in ToT on HC Lei Shen and I could "sync" most of my Barrage CDs with Focued Fire buff.
High uptime of Rapid Fire in SoO, FF and high haste would benefit Barrage greatly while GT doesn't scale at all with haste.

[Thursley]

Barrage is definitely better for AOE. For fights with a few targets rather than all out AOE the thing that will make barrage better than glaive toss is if you can consistently make it hit multiple targets that glaive toss wouldn't be able to reach. It just so happens that this is true for quite a lot of fights in SOO. Most of them, even, at least on heroic.

[Deleted]

tbh I don't like BM at all. I don't like it to rely so much on my pet. And there is never a content where you can play BM on every single encounter without any bugs. E.G. Megaera, Immerseus, Dark Shamans (when you tank both bosses together) etc. For that reason I'm excited for the new "No pet" talent

[Deleted]

i always wanted to play BM to use my variety of pets but i always felt like i did more damage with survival, i will give BM a go in the next raid