WoW is soooo "developer" driven and not player driven. Reason cause its losing subs!

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Your agruement basically is, since players can't do exactly everything they want and make the story revolve around them, whereas the way it is now and always has been where the story is fixed and you can't do exactly everything you want, the game is a failure.

Are ou druged on pepsi or something?

[Spazzer]

Finally, the one guy who solved every problem WoW has that Blizzard's many employees couldn't figure out

This and I am being 100% serious.

~Spazzer

[Constraint]

Your agruement basically is, since players can't do exactly everything they want and make the story revolve around them, whereas the way it is now and always has been where the story is fixed and you can't do exactly everything you want, the game is a failure.

Are ou druged on pepsi or something?

I believe there may be a strong chance that you failed primary school reading comprehension, friend. His points literally have zero suggestions within them that he wants the story to revolve solely around us. The story has nothing whatsoever to do with it. It's what we do within the world that's at question.

[Reclaimer]

The real reason WoW is losing Subs? When WoW 1st came out how many other games did it have to compete with? 0. How many now 8 years later? Oh about 150+
GG OP. I stop playing WoW because me a few friends seem to enjoy FF14 ARR more. Don't see us saying "Wow suck!111! FF14 FTW!1" Wow is still a fantastic game no doubt coming back for WoD. The fact that its still going very strong after 8 years is proof. What other MMO has done that? Oh wait... there isn't.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

I believe there may be a strong chance that you failed primary school reading comprehension, friend. His points literally have zero suggestions within them that he wants the story to revolve solely around us. The story has nothing whatsoever to do with it. It's what we do within the world that's at question.

I was just covering all of the possible bases.

And, WoW is, for all intensive purposes, a story driven RPG. Stories are very difficult to tell, if not impossible, when the player is off just stealing from everyone's pockets or other things of the like. It's a themepark MMO, not a sandbox. If you want to be able to do anything and everything, the OP should be looking into EVE Online or Minecraft. Blizzard doesn't dictate how their games are designed just because their customers whim's desire it, because that's a really bad way to develop a game.

[Deleted]

The fact that even after 8 years. No "english speaking/written" mmo's comes close to the fastpaced pvp in WoW makes me still play. I know there's coming some Korean ones.

But WoW did have competition at it's start. EQ, DaoC was I think the big ones. I was only around 11-12 at that time so I didn't have a credit card to even try these games.
Wow came along I played Guild Wars because it was free after a purchase but FRANKLY when I got to try out wow, the movement and combat, everythign was so much better, and guess what, no credit card. Go to a game store and buy a prepaid card for your allowance, this was the MOST normal case in Sweden and I bet throughout many countrys.

I honestly believe this is one huuuuuuuuuge big reason it did so well here in scandinavia and I guess more places. My few cents!

[billielecter]

Now designers are bounded. They are afraid to make movements. Time is changing and players prefer a free environment. The actually playable content of WOW is restricted and sometimes compulsive. You know the real repetitively playable content in this game has always been PVE. However this filed is over contolled. Now players get bored to walk within the lines.

[Realsykes]

Its hurting the game and probably one of the main reason Blizzard can neve fix WPVP and people are getting burnt out and bored quicker than ever.

WoW is what you call a "themepark" MMO. Theme park MMOs are designed to set players on a set of rails, guiding them through the content of a game. The development team works on creating a very elaborate story or setting to deeply enhance the experience a player has. Whether this is through scripted events, quests, or mini-cut scenes, all of these things and more.

No matter how many times you ride the attractions, the details just never change. If you wait several years and go back, they are right there, waiting for you...just as you left them. While this could be fun the first few times, it gets boring quick and you could find yourself looking at other themeparks for new and more exciting rides.

Its like every expansion we have our path layed out for us. Its a simulation. Nothing we do changes anything. Its already given that you will kill the bad guy of that expansion unless Blizzard plans on writting him for future expansions. There are no consequences. You wipe on the Lich King, you come back next week to kill him. Doesn't feel very real does it? With current design of MMOs focused on progression, raiding is very important and that is how every one these days seem to judge any current MMO. That is what Blizzard seems to be doing as well.

WoW is so heavily driven by developers from the very start, new players begin with a set path to follow. The developer controls the experience, from the first time a player logs in with a new character and every time after, until that character achieves the level cap for that particular game. Developers restrict the attractions offered, often only allowing one ride at a time. In other words, once on there’s no turning back until the ride stops! Like you can see with capped Valor Points, gated reputations, daily lockouts and such.

Then you have the "Sandbox" MMOs. Sandbox MMOs are nearly the complete opposite of this. Rather than choosing a predestined path for players to follow, this development style allows for the creation of an open world in which players are free to discover their own adventure at their own pace. This is what a traditional MMO was and a lot of folks are actually looking for but just can't put a finger on what they really are looking for.

You look at the "old schoool" MMOs such as Ultima Online, the taple top dungeons and dragons which were so player driven, it kept players interest. Its like an artist. You give him a blank cavas and he paints a masterpiece. That is what MMOs were. They gave you this world and you lived and created your memories.

Its amazing what some folks do in RPGs. Take Skyrim for example. I've read of players RP Hunters that don't only sleep out in the wild and eat only food that is hunted. Or Khajits that never enter a Hold during the day and only enter at night when everyone is at bed. These are small examples. Or even some that prefer to use these hardcores mods - Frostfall - which changes how the game is played. It hads a ton of realist mechanics to the game. This is for those looking to immerse themselves completely in the world. The game is "player driven". Players will keep coming back creating and living through new characters.

People keep calling for Blizzard to save WPVP. The funny thing is that Blizzard didn't start WPVP. Folks look back at the good times at Tarren Mill or South Shore and the Horde and Alliance rivalry. Who created it? Its the players. The game was primarily driven by players early on. Sure Blizzard deserves credit for some amazing raids but its the players that actually kept you coming back. Alterac Valley for example. Blizzard has tried to hype up the Alliance vs Horde rivalry in Cataclysm and again is MoP but they keep failing at it. Its cause they never started it. The rivalry was player driven.


Folks get burnt out quickly cause content is limited in a way. There are no incentives given for players to come up with their own content. So Blizzard piles us with more dailies thinking its the best way to give players something to do at 90. Again its all so linear.

The reason Vanilla WoW actually is fondly remember is cause it still had a few "sandbox" elements. There was never a clear path. Not everyone was into raids. Raids were intended for the hardcore crowd. PVP was a grind. Folks got less burnt out. Sure those that raided got burnt out as well but that is the nature of raiding.

I can never figure out why its so hard to actually have MMOs designed around a traditional RPG design. That is what a lot of players seem to be actually calling for but simply can't point a finger at. There are only so many times you can run the same dungeon over and over again before it becomes mind numbing.

It’s inevitable that everything in life eventually becomes old or boring and as a result, it was only natural that players of theme park MMOs have begun to cry for something different. That’s the magic a sandbox MMO can give that a theme park game never will. It may take extra effort on the part of a player to create reasons to explore and push further for themselves, but trust me when I say it is well worth the effort. Times are changing and the sandbox is becoming a welcome site to gamers new and old alike.

Don't care to read the rest, but the bolded part, when the HELL, is ANY video game NOT that?

THAT'S A VIDEO GAME IN OF ITSELF.

[billielecter]

Don't care to read the rest, but the bolded part, when the HELL, is ANY video game NOT that?

THAT'S A VIDEO GAME IN OF ITSELF.

If we always prefer things being all the same or what they are. We don't have to move out of that cave. You just don't define anything based on "that's what it is" This definition is man-made and can be changed by men.

[Saffa]

Imagine a game designed by spotty boys going through puberty screaming their little heads off. WoW is not that and never will be. Thank goodness.

[Deleted]

I think theme park MMOs are on the way out. They require far more developer maintenace due to the need for regular new content, and people do indeed burn out on them far quicker. More mainstream MMOs could do to learn from games like EVE.

At the moment the MMO thats really got me interested in Everquest Next, since Sony seem to have hit on something by having a traditonal MMORPG where the players provide the content. Will be interesting to see how it works out.

To people who think OP was complaining about WoW, you have to understand the problem isn't that WoW is bad, the problem is that its been around long enough to become outdated in its lifetime. WoW will possibly be the last big, successful, linear, sub based MMORPG of its kind. You only have to look at The Old Republic, Warhammer Online, Age of Conan, or one of many others to see how big budget, heavily marketed, theme park MMORPGs with an established IP behind then are a terrible idea these days. Hence why I'm not holding out much hope for Elder Scrolls online.

[SodiumChloride]

If players drove development of wow it wouldn't just be in the shitter, it'd be getting processed in the waste treatment facility right now.

Someone has no idea whatsoever what this topic is about because he could not even be bother to read the opening post of the thread he decide to post in, thereby wasting everyone's bandwidth.

[vep]

Too long, didn't read.
However, you are wrong. At least as far as the title is concerned. What Blizzard has done wrong is that they started listening and doing what the community wanted. Simple as that. And let me tell you, people are a herd of sheep who have no idea what they want except that their class has got to be the strongest.

All the changes to WoW that had led to dumbing it down and making it more approachable, were done because the community asked for it and the devs were stupid enough to listen.
Simple as that.

AKA: there's really no carrot on a stick.

[Musty]

snip.

From the title i thought it was another idiotic post, however I get your point and i would personally love to find a game like that but i dont think wow should be that type of game. I like wow for what it is and developers are doing a good job at that but what you are looking for is a completely different type of game which sadly hasnt been done right so far. As a game developer I've always thought about this type of game myself, where the player chooses the paths the story is more personal and you do what you want in the world, so everytime you look at your character its different to everyone else based on what youve done yourself and not just followed the same linear events that exist in the game. Like i said before though WoW is not that type of game at all and it will never be, there are a lot of people who love it for what it is and would hate it if it changed. There are a lot of people who would rather be just told what to do in a game and do it, this may not be you but there are people like that so its each to their own. I did like your post and i would love to see a game like that in the future.

[-Klungo-]

Too long, didn't read.
However, you are wrong. At least as far as the title is concerned. What Blizzard has done wrong is that they started listening and doing what the community wanted. Simple as that. And let me tell you, people are a herd of sheep who have no idea what they want except that their class has got to be the strongest.

All the changes to WoW that had led to dumbing it down and making it more approachable, were done because the community asked for it and the devs were stupid enough to listen.
Simple as that.

AKA: there's really no carrot on a stick.

Really? Don't even think about replying if you didn't read the post, because YOU are wrong. Perhaps if you knew what the OP was arguing, you could come up with something relevant to argue back.

[Deleted]

I get the feeling that the posters in this thread thinks that the OP wants to put players at the dev table and create things, which is not the case.

[Zaqwert]

It hasn't been "world" of warcraft for a long time.

The game is built like Super Mario Bros now. You have levels with difficulty settings. You play the new batch of levels and wait for the next one. Multiplayer co-op is optional.

[Deleted]

OP, you may want to look into EverQuest Next. IF they can pull off the things they're aspiring to do, it could very well be the next step in MMO evolution. Essentially it all boils down to the development they're putting into new AI that helps keep us from looking so easily behind the curtain and seeing how A leads to B and a game designed where 20 different servers can wind up with 20 different versions of the physical world due to player action.

EverQuest next will be somewhat sandbox but the true sandbox MMO for me will remain Wurm Online. Everything is player driven there, there are no NPCs other than some pre made ones such as guards and traders/merchants(that are owned by the players), no quests, no goals. Every single village in the game is made by the players except the starting areas on each server, the world is fully terraformable, you can mine, cut down trees, all this affects the world around you. You can't buy non player made armour or equipment as everything is made by someone, mobs don't drop you weapons or armour, there are no levels, no classes (and sadly no races yet) to choose from. You want to become a priest? Sure go ahead but you will be limited in crafting but you can de priest anytime. You want to create your own kingdom on a PvP server? Sure go ahead, just gather some money and 50 people.

There are no teleports or fast travel in the game other than some basic ones from the tutorial, you must use your own ship that you or someone made, to sail between servers. The economy is completely player driven and if you put enough time into the game you can earn some good money. There is no "plot" to the game, it's made by the players(mostly on the PvP servers).

Here is an unofficial trailer(even the trailers for this game are made by the players)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0cxSN5zRarI

If you have played before you should know that there has been huge improvements to the game, animations, customizable characters, visible armour are just one of the many new things and more are coming including bridges. Wurm really changed my vision of what an MMO should be, and changed the whole genre around for me. If you have never tried it before i recommend giving it a try. If you have then you should log back as a ton of things have changed. I have been playing since 2010, put about 180 days into the game and not seeing myself quit anytime soon. But that is nothing compared to people playing since 2003 and having over a thousand days of playtime...

And before someone says Wurm is P2W then you are wrong, there is no "win" in this game, and you can get everything you need without having to spend any real life money. If you are crafting and have a steady income of silver then you won't need to spend any money on anything whatsoever. The game is more of a P2P, as there is a free unlimited trial but you are limited in skills which is a major set back.

Don't care to read the rest, but the bolded part, when the HELL, is ANY video game NOT that?

THAT'S A VIDEO GAME IN OF ITSELF.

Read everything above.

[Constraint]

Too long, didn't read.
However, you are wrong. At least as far as the title is concerned. What Blizzard has done wrong is that they started listening and doing what the community wanted. Simple as that. And let me tell you, people are a herd of sheep who have no idea what they want except that their class has got to be the strongest.

All the changes to WoW that had led to dumbing it down and making it more approachable, were done because the community asked for it and the devs were stupid enough to listen.
Simple as that.

AKA: there's really no carrot on a stick.

Out of abject curiosity, why aren't people banned for posting completely irrelevant nonsense that has zero meaning whatsoever to the thread in question, and actually claim in their post that they didn't read the OP, therefore having no idea whatsoever as to the general premise of the thread? Just wastes everyone's time.

On-topic - He's not talking about players DESIGNING the game. He's talking about players having more freedom to do what they will WITHIN the game. As he says, no-one told people to go to Southshore/Tarren Mill - and it was amazing. Player-driven. No-one told people in old-school AV that once they've killed the equivalent of 400 players, the game will instantly and randomly end. And many people loved it. You just did what you want.