0.23% of Players Defeated Heroic Garrosh

[Count Zero]

You say that, but I bet if there was some way to make raids completeable by just 1 person there would be a much much higher proportion of the playerbase with HM Garrosh kills.

IMO the biggest challenge in WoW is managing a raiding team, the actual encounter difficulty pales in comparison.

Absolutely this. The hardest level of personal responsibility I've ever held in this game was defeating Kanrethad (Warlock green fire chain final boss, for those not familiar). Nothing else I've ever done in-game even comes close. If I could hold my entire guild to that level of dedication and performance, I think we'd be 14/14h instead of 2/14h. But that's not who we are as a guild.

I think maybe for just one tier I'd like to full clear on heroic, just so I could have the experience. But I'm also way past my most-hardcore WoW days (in regards to time / emotional investment), so that's unlikely to happen. Oh well.

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Is the .23 percent somehow Blizzards fault?

If people want the kill they'll put the time and effort in to defeat it. Learn your class and learn the fights and the bosses will die. This thread makes it sound like people are expecting Blizz to jut give people kills cause the "percentages are so low".

"Fault" is not the right word. It's by design, partially, yes. They tune fights so that a certain amount of people clear them. This is much more visible with LFR / Flex where balance adjustments are more frequent and thus noticeable. If in another month or two, not enough guilds have cleared enough of the content (whether normal or heroic), they'll put some nerfs in. Right now they're using the effective nerf of players having time to gear up.

[Deleted]

Going off the stats on the front page, 0.23% of players (not characters) have defeated Heroic Garrosh. Of the 2.2 million sampled, that comes out to be like 5,000 players. Also keep in mind we are exactly 4 months out from this patch's release and the final boss has been killed by a quarter of a percent of players. What do you guys think? Is this too much, or too little? At 4 months out, how many players do you think should've been able to defeat the last boss on heroic?

Not sure why more need to see it, people already seen LFR and Normal...heroic isn't that much different. It's just a harder version. If people want to see it that badly go look it up on youtube.

Heroic content isn't created for the normal WoW player, normal mode is. (or LFR since most retards can't even do normal)

[Shiira]

Everyone agrees with you, except the .23% of players that Blizzard actually cares about.

But not to worry. The 99.77% are happy to spend our $15/month to provide entertainment for the .23% who would have to spend $10,000/month otherwise.

What a load of shit.

Blizzard has been making raiding more accessible for everyone who is not the top tier of raider since tbc.

When level 60 naxx came out the majority of the playerbase got nothing.

Now when a new tier comes out you get lfr, flex, and normal modes, at least some of which are accessible to basically anyone who cares enough to show up. If blizzard didn't care about the raiding population who aren't willing to put the effort into clearing heroics while they're current you wouldn't have any of that.

Besides, having a little exclusivity at the top is a good thing. It gives the rest of the playerbase something to aspire to, a reason to improve. If you really believe what you're saying, put your money where your mouth is and unsub.

[wych]

Casual endgame is in place since vanilla. It's called reputation. I can agree however that reputations are probably too grindy recently, and often has easily inflated rewards.

In Vanilla the game was relatively new and similar could be said in TBC and WOTLK so people where more happy with exploring, doing a bit of raiding and enjoying the world.

Now that everybody knows the world inside out I think that they need to start adding more casual end game, and they've definitely started moving towards that, for example pet battles, brawler's guild, the upcoming garrisons and the new "exploration" idea of the WoD zones/TI.

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Not sure why more need to see it, people already seen LFR and Normal...heroic isn't that much different. It's just a harder version. If people want to see it that badly go look it up on youtube.

And IMO this is the major flaw in the current system.

Lots of players just don't want to see the game on heroic and maybe even normal anymore.

They've already seen the entire raid, experienced all the bosses (albeit nerfed) and had access to tier gear, so it's becoming increasingly more difficult to dedicate multiple nights a week to organised raiding just to experience the same boss except maybe with 1 more mechanic and a title/mount at the end.

[Deleted]

First, that percentile if for guilded players only, so the correct number will be lower. Secondly, if there are four difficulty levels, each of them should cater to roughly the same amount of the playerbase. Not an ultratiny special needs minority, jsut b/c some of the developers were or are part of that subgroup.

So at the end of the expansion, not now, 25% of players should have killed the expansion endboss on heroic.

[Deleted]

First, that percentile if for guilded players only, so the correct number will be lower. Secondly, if there are four difficulty levels, each of them should cater to roughly the same amount of the playerbase. Not an ultratiny special needs minority, jsut b/c some of the developers were or are part of that subgroup.

So at the end of the expansion, not now, 25% of players should have killed the expansion endboss on heroic.

25% of the playerbase running completely out of content is a bad design for a subscription game. That should be fairly obvious. Developers do not want people to finish content, they want them to progress through the content until the next content is released. An end boss that 25% complete would be a huge failure and subloss.

Contrary to popular belief, the design goal in a subscription game is not for players to complete the content, rather for players to have enough content gametime for the developers to release new content. Now as players have different commitment, skill, time and goal to play the game you have to make a cutoff. Currently 0.23% of the playerbase got no raiding content to do whilst 99.77% do. That seems like a completely acceptable figure to me. It would not be worth developing further content for those 0.23%

[CTwin]

Casual endgame is in place since vanilla. It's called reputation. I can agree however that reputations are probably too grindy recently, and often has easily inflated rewards.

lol.

Someone who didn't play Vanilla.

Most rep's in Vanilla didn't actually HAVE rewards, other than the feat in itself.

[ro9ue]

Is the .23 percent somehow Blizzards fault?

Considering raid difficulty rides heavily on tuning numbers arbitrarily deemed appropriate by Blizzard, they are entirely responsible for how exclusive something is. I don't think anyone disagrees with the sentiment that exclusivity is good. The discussion is about how MUCH exclusivity is good... would 2%, 5% or 10% seem better? I personally think 5% seems more reasonable.

[Haywire5714]

Perhaps this would be better to discuss in the final months of MoP.

[ro9ue]

Contrary to popular belief, the design goal in a subscription game is not for players to complete the content, rather for players to have enough content gametime for the developers to release new content. Now as players have different commitment, skill, time and goal to play the game you have to make a cutoff. Currently 0.23% of the playerbase got no raiding content to do whilst 99.77% do. That seems like a completely acceptable figure to me. It would not be worth developing further content for those 0.23%

That make sense if all of those players are actually intending to do that content. If heroics are so tuned so hard that 90% of players are just like fuck it I'm done after normals, then they fucked up. Honestly, I think most players say fuck it after LFR nowadays.

[cFortyfive]

Sounds pretty decent. I'd guess towards the end of this addon the numbers will see another decent rise.

[Shiira]

If heroics are so tuned so hard that 90% of players are just like fuck it I'm done after normals, then they fucked up.

A guild capable of finishing normals should be able to finish several heroics with relatively little difficulty.

The first half of heroic t16 is a complete joke compared to the rest of the heroic content in mists.

[Bullettime]

It's quite funny as the difficulty doesn't necessarily come from Heroic Garrosh who's been brute forced through in the last few weeks on prog kills. Blizzard again made some big mistakes regarding the instance tuning where instead of a gradual increase, you go through easier bosses followed by 2 absolutely ridiculous grind out fights which are more difficult mechanically than the final boss. Had many real id friends bitch about Siegecrafter and Paragons then laugh about their Garrosh kill.

It's interesting to look at progression lists and see a decent number hitting 11/14 then a sudden massive fall off to 12. This tier feels a lot like Dragon Soul where heroic guilds shit stomped their way up to Spine, then suddenly the kill count nosedived to basically being nonexistent, with Madness being killed by those guilds near immediately after.

[Deleted]

That make sense if all of those players are actually intending to do that content. If heroics are so tuned so hard that 90% of players are just like fuck it I'm done after normals, then they fucked up. Honestly, I think most players say fuck it after LFR nowadays.

The first 10 heroic modes are extremely simple and are not even worth having the heroic title infront of them. They are pugged extremely frequently on my server.
I would be extremely surprised if any guild stops because of the difficulty of the next boss scares them until Siegecrafter H.

Even so, it does not change the fact. Developers do not want players to clear the content. They want you to pay your sub fee every month. Anything above 1% clearing all heroic mode content would be a failure in design.

[NuLogic]

People are complaining bosses are too hard? I thought the cool thing was to cry about how bc was so much more challenging.

[Itisamuh]

I love it. Raiders whine all the time that the game is too easy. Then it turns out that likely less than 0.2% (since that sample is only from guilds I guess) have actually beaten the last boss on heroic difficulty. Which means, either people are full of crap when they say the game is too easy. Or, raiders make up a tiny fraction of the player base. Either way, I find it quite amusing.

[Bullettime]

I love it. Raiders whine all the time that the game is too easy. Then it turns out that likely less than 0.2% (since that sample is only from guilds I guess) have actually beaten the last boss on heroic difficulty. Which means, either people are full of crap when they say the game is too easy. Or, raiders make up a tiny fraction of the player base. Either way, I find it quite amusing.

Most of those complaining that the game is too easy aren't raiders at all. They're players who often don't have a single heroic kill bitching on the forums to sound cool and inflate their own egos. They're the same ones who bitch about "LFR destroying the game omg."

Most of the actual heroic raiders are too busy focused on killing bosses and dealing with the challenge in front of them.

[Deleted]

I love it. Raiders whine all the time that the game is too easy. Then it turns out that likely less than 0.2% (since that sample is only from guilds I guess) have actually beaten the last boss on heroic difficulty. Which means, either people are full of crap when they say the game is too easy. Or, raiders make up a tiny fraction of the player base. Either way, I find it quite amusing.

Maybe a lot of people do not have the time to commit to raiding, or just simply do not want to run through all the dull, easy and boring content before reaching the interesting content. Other than Thok, Siege and Paragons on heroic, all other fights this tier was just a huge disappointment and boring. It is fairly possible to quit before reaching that point simply due to boredom. All content for people that do not have a lot of time to commit is also stupidly easy. You do not have to kill heroic garrosh to be able to complain on content being easy.

This thread is also kinda funny because Garrosh was one of the most disappointing fights in SoO. It is simply normal mode with + damage and health tuned up for high item level requirement. Super simple and easy fight mechanically and not fun at all.

[Deleted]

Well, I think it may be time to start using more resources on content most people would go through. Seems like heroics are for a minority of the minority.

The "majority" already has _TONS_ of content available to them, they just choose not to do it. Blizzard already uses most of their resources providing soloable/easy group content. The people who want something hard from the game have one section of truly difficult content designed for them. CMs aren't hard. Pet battles aren't hard. Dungeons aren't hard. Questing isn't hard.

This isn't a matter of it being "too hard", this is a matter of people being lazy and unmotivated. Blizzard has failed to make guilds easier to manage (so that people feel less stressed managing raids) and failed to incentivise moving up in difficulty. People are running LFR, then unsubbing when they get bored. They aren't moving into guilds or trying to improve their play, because there's no reason to.

Many of the ones who keep playing and think everything should be brought down to their level yell "but I don't have time!" - I'm in a guild with 11/14HC steadily making progress after a shaky start, and we're about to pick back up after our 3 week winter break. I'm certain in the next few months or so we'll have Garrosh down and we're looking forward to the tough few bosses ahead. We raid just 6 hours a week and everyone has jobs, partners, university etc. Lack of time is just an excuse that people who want everything easy hide behind - there are people on my realm who easily put in 50 hours a week into their legion of alts and vanity items but will complain about "elitists". If they turned that effort into raiding instead, they wouldn't be stuck in LFR and Flex for eternity.

[Deleted]

Even if 1% of players would defeat Garrosh, I still think Blizzard wastes their time to make heroic raids. Just make normal mode harder and add few more bosses to each raid.