0.23% of Players Defeated Heroic Garrosh

[Pann]

What kind of comparison is that? Better comparison would be - do you think there are more people who are Gladiators than have killed HC Garrosh? Last I heard - raiding is more than killing HC Garrosh. If you can accept the fact that you won't be in top 0.5% in PvP why is it hard to accept the fact that you won't be in top 0.5% who killed Garrosh HC?

How much development time is spent on the one arena we get each expansion compared to the all the raids? Plus all arenas are open to anyone that can queue with one or more players.

[wych]

I guess we'll just agree to disagree then because I don't find anything you've said to be very engaging. I play WoW because I like the MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER aspect of it. I don't care about solo scenarios. If I wanted that I'd go play Skyrim. 5 man content can be a good avenue, I'll admit, but to what degree? I mean, do you want 5 man content as difficult as heroic raid content? If so, do you really think it would do that well? People can barely manage to get through 10 man heroic raiding, would cutting the group size in half really make that much of a difference?

It seems like you want something Blizzard can't give. There are quite a few reasons why 5 man content isn't the way to go (imo), one of which is boss abilities. Blizzard said it themselves, that making content for smaller group sizes is more restricting mechanic wise. They even said with the 20 man mythic going forward they'll be able to design better content because of the higher, static number. You can't have a fight like, for example, Lei Shen, in a 5 man setting. It just doesn't work. When you try to translate fights like that to smaller group sizes, it really takes a lot away from what can be done. Have you ever done it on 10 man, as compared to 25? It feels really shitty in 10. Dividing your 10 man raid group into 4 quadrants makes the mechanics clunky and unforgiving. You end up in a situation where your group breakdown is something like 3/3/3/1 or 4/4/2/2 for 10 man, whereas in 25 the feel of it is just much better. Imagine what Lei Shen would have been as a 5 man.

You fall under the assumption that there's only 2 difficulties possible "mind numbingly boring easy content" and "cutting edge heroic", that's not true. They could very well add a new 5 man difficulty of TBC or Cata level difficulty that isn't forced into random match making and isn't mandatory.

Playing things like Brawler's Guild is much more exciting in WoW than it is in a single player game for the simple reason that it's still a multiplayer world you're in with friends, strangers and everything in between.

IMO Blizzard needs to find a way to force socialisation again, that is the main aspect missing from the game, and once socialisation is "required" for players you finally see a community again with people having fun and being willing to work together on difficult content that isn't raiding

[Deleted]

Yes, that would be too optimistic, in my opinion.

Anyways, what I wanted to say, there is enough content for everyone. Unfortunately, if you spend same amount of time as heroic raider in game and not raiding you will not have any content left. That's why it's called casual content - if you log for few hours a week you sure have a lot of stuff to do. As someone said, problem is in difficult content which is not raiding - for people who like challenge but can't afford to raid at given times. I mean, they can make more world bosses, more pet battles, more dungeons - but what's the point when you consume it in few days? If there is no hard content why bother playing? To do dailies every day and have a farm?

[Deleted]

Great design Blizz.

Cater months and months of devlopment time on tuning content that is seen by .23% of players.

Dont worry about creating quality content for the other 99.7%

Designers probably spent months and months and months increasing the numbers from normal garrosh to make into heroic garrosh. *Facepalm*

I bet 95% of 5.4's development time went into heroic garrosh tuning.

[judgementofantonidas]

Everything in WoW is earned while sitting in a chair. Maybe you want to approach the feeling of being one of the best in the world at something but IRL u can never manage that due to stuff like phisical weakneess/lack of time/lack of money etc and WoW gives you that opportunity.

Just as chess was invented to show the brain power of leaders, as the outcome of the game didn't depends on armament/number of men/weather and all that sort, wow let's you squeeze your very essence and take your IQ to the max.

And as a more philosophical way to look at it, in this stupid world you need stupid traits to survive and be succesful, like putting your energy into deceiving, kissing asses, snitching and other disgusting things. In a top guild that never happens. The goal is to kill the final boss and you either manage to keep your raiding spot or u don't just by using your brain. I say it's a pretty wonderful thing.

So 0.23% sounds just about right considering atleast 80% or the world population is stupid and the rest 20% are struggling to escape stupidity, percentages which could be applied to wow. (it's just my own opinion based on NOTHING).

I have seen plenty of ass kissing in raid guilds however. not that I dissagree with your entire post. There are always the whispers going on and the attempts to befriend the person who fills the slots.

[Pann]

What about quests? Professions? Reputations? Pet Battles? BGs? Arenas? Proving Grounds? Dungeons? CMs? Scenarios?

If your only interest in this game is the timeless isle and raids, you might accept the fact that the majority of the content is not designed for you. Also, if you run different iterations of the raid, why do you complain? You get to do the raid, what is the problem?

None of those offer anywhere near the rewards of raiding perhaps it would an idea if they allowed access to the same level of reward?

[judgementofantonidas]

Designers probably spent months and months and months increasing the numbers from normal garrosh to make into heroic garrosh. *Facepalm*

I bet 95% of 5.4's development time went into heroic garrosh tuning.

LOL, no. 95% of 5.4 development time went in to noodle carts. don't be silly.

[Deleted]

LOL, no. 95% of 5.4 development time went in to noodle carts. don't be silly.

THEM NOODLES! Haha, I really love those carts.

[Arainie]

But of course it is easy to forget that all heroic raiders are powerfully built company directors who only spend 20 minutes a week in game in between running their fortune 500 businesses and their other hobbies of rocket surgery and brokering world peace.

It's all about prioritizing. Anyone who is fit to play this game can find at least 5-10 hours a week on average to play it. The average adult works 40 hours a week by regulation, and sleeps 7 hours a night. Account for 1 hour of travelling and you have 6 hours of spare time at home each week day, and 17 hours each weekend. Ofcourse you may have obligations such as cooking, cleaning, family business, other hobbies. But honestly, if you really wanted to play the game you'd be able to find those 5-10 hours. I have raided with many working family men and while they haven't been able to attend every raid they've all kept an attendance over 90% with three 4 hour raids a week.

Now, I myself managed to clear 14 normal and 8 heroic bosses in about 2 months raiding 8 hours a week. I wasn't carried by any means, my entire guild started a month in to the new raid in Tier 14 gear. Don't come with this bullshit that there's no way an adult with a family can find time for the game, it's all about what you prefer to do with your free time. If you'd rather watch TV or have a drink with your mates that's your call, you can't place that on the game or on anyone else.

[Ugum]

A lot of this is also taken under the assumption (by the masses) that everyone is trying to kill H Garrosh.

Speaking for myself, I would love a shot at it but, as with most people, I don't have the desire to be involved with a HC raiding guild. It's not that I don't have time, it's more that I don't want to feel like I have to be on Monday, Tuesday, Thursday and Friday from 7:30 pm to 12:00 am every week or I'l lose my spot. I want to log on when I feel like it and do what I feel like doing. I know there is a lot of people out there that feel this way.

People will say they don't have the time yet they spend 3x as long in game as most HC raiders do. t's not really a matter of having the time, I think it's more a matter of feeling like a slave to the guild and people don't like that. Flex fixes a lot of that issue.

I'd be happy with just seeing him on Flex as my server is kind of beat for Normal mode raiding. I would like to if I could find something that was a little more Flexible in terms of attendance and was a good personality fit. For now, I just run my own Flex raids on Saturday nights.

I'm happy with the content that I still have to do (reputation grinds, pets, yet to conquer raid bosses on higher difficulties). Most of the time I just log off though.

None of it should be nerfed. If people want to see it that bad, they will make whatever sacrifices they feel is worthy of it.

[Deleted]

Great design Blizz.

Cater months and months of devlopment time on tuning content that is seen by .23% of players.

Dont worry about creating quality content for the other 99.7%

And what exactly is quality content for other 99.7%? Since I didn't killed Garrosh on HC I am in that category. And I like heroic raiding and still progressing through it. What would you like?

[Felarion]

Sad im not in that 0.23%. But after 300 wipes on blackfuse we manage to kill him (funny though we one shoot him yesterday ) Garrosh can't be that bad.

[Deleted]

None of those offer anywhere near the rewards of raiding perhaps it would an idea if they allowed access to the same level of reward?

It is quite common in life that rewards reflect on the effort/skill/time you put into something. Strangely enough, the same principles apply to WoW. The rewards for different types of content is also different. For example pet battles rewards pets (duh).

[Monoxide]

You fall under the assumption that there's only 2 difficulties possible "mind numbingly boring easy content" and "cutting edge heroic", that's not true. They could very well add a new 5 man difficulty of TBC or Cata level difficulty that isn't forced into random match making and isn't mandatory.

Playing things like Brawler's Guild is much more exciting in WoW than it is in a single player game for the simple reason that it's still a multiplayer world you're in with friends, strangers and everything in between.

IMO Blizzard needs to find a way to force socialisation again, that is the main aspect missing from the game, and once socialisation is "required" for players you finally see a community again with people having fun and being willing to work together on difficult content that isn't raiding

History proves you wrong, though. TBC had "brutal" 5 mans, and what did we get in Wrath? Do you remember those 5 mans? Then people complained, like you, that they wanted challenging 5 man content, and that it was too easy in Wrath. Enter Cata launch 5 mans. Remember how those got nerfed 1-2 months in? Now look at Mop 5 mans. It's a repeating cycle, Blizzard release challenging 5 man content, some people enjoy it, most find it too difficult. Next expansion Blizzard releases dumbed down 5 man content, and people complain it's too easy, so next expansion they ramp up the difficulty again and met with complaints that it's too hard.

How does Blizzard win? I stand by my statement that the problem is not the game, but the player.

[wych]

It's all about prioritizing. Anyone who is fit to play this game can find at least 5-10 hours a week on average to play it. The average adult works 40 hours a week by regulation, and sleeps 7 hours a night. Account for 1 hour of travelling and you have 6 hours of spare time at home each week day, and 17 hours each weekend. Ofcourse you may have obligations such as cooking, cleaning, family business, other hobbies. But honestly, if you really wanted to play the game you'd be able to find those 5-10 hours. I have raided with many working family men and while they haven't been able to attend every raid they've all kept an attendance over 90% with three 4 hour raids a week.

Now, I myself managed to clear 14 normal and 8 heroic bosses in about 2 months raiding 8 hours a week. I wasn't carried by any means, my entire guild started a month in to the new raid in Tier 14 gear. Don't come with this bullshit that there's no way an adult with a family can find time for the game, it's all about what you prefer to do with your free time. If you'd rather watch TV or have a drink with your mates that's your call, you can't place that on the game or on anyone else.

Of course it's an exaggeration that every family man can't commit to raiding but there's 1 thing you're failing to mention here, and that's schedule time rather than random time.

Many people can quite easily spend 10 hours a week playing WoW, the issue is that a lot of people simply can't commit the SAME 10 hours every week to playing WoW. Especially those with kids and wives or shift work

[Boogums]

Game's too easy.

[Deleted]

How much development time is spent on the one arena we get each expansion compared to the all the raids? Plus all arenas are open to anyone that can queue with one or more players.

Are you serious? Every freakin patch (and hotfixes) are all about class balance because of PvP. It gets the same development time if not more than raids. Last I heard raids are also open for anyone that can queue.

[Barcasaur]

and that is the problem with warcraft, 0% of the people that did not accomplish this don't give a shit.

If this game was any form of its past self people would be in shock and awe at the sight of a guild clearing this, cause it would have been raiding, not normal(some tiny relevance of challenge)/heroic(raiding)/flex(LFR without random people)/LFR(even an aborted fetus can clear)

the numbers would naturally be higher if the game development philosophy had not have changed, and heroic might be a little bit easier then it is today comparing this to raiding pre-Wrath, it is more difficult in some ways.

[Monoxide]

None of those offer anywhere near the rewards of raiding perhaps it would an idea if they allowed access to the same level of reward?

What do you mean? The rewards offered through raiding are generally: 1-2 mounts per tier, 1 title per tier, and 0-4 battle pets. Aside from that, the rewards are gear. I don't understand the mentality of "I have no intention of ever doing any heroic mode SoO boss, but I'll be damned if I don't need 570 ilevel gear" What do you need this gear for, exactly? You get all the other stuff (mounts/pets/titles) from the content Firefly33 mentioned. You get gear from most of them too. You just don't get the best, high end gear, from that content. Why do you need it though?


You're a no win type of person. Challenge modes are a perfect example. Your rewards are transmog items, a mount, and a title. Again I ask, if you have no interest in doing any SoO heroic, why do you need SoO heroic item level gear? Doesn't make any sense beyond "I want it because I do".

[wych]

History proves you wrong, though. TBC had "brutal" 5 mans, and what did we get in Wrath? Do you remember those 5 mans? Then people complained, like you, that they wanted challenging 5 man content, and that it was too easy in Wrath. Enter Cata launch 5 mans. Remember how those got nerfed 1-2 months in? Now look at Mop 5 mans. It's a repeating cycle, Blizzard release challenging 5 man content, some people enjoy it, most find it too difficult. Next expansion Blizzard releases dumbed down 5 man content, and people complain it's too easy, so next expansion they ramp up the difficulty again and met with complaints that it's too hard.

How does Blizzard win? I stand by my statement that the problem is not the game, but the player.

Again you're operating under the false assumption that I want players to be pushed into hard heroic 5 mans. You obviously didn't read what I wrote so i'll just repeat it.

You fall under the assumption that there's only 2 difficulties possible "mind numbingly boring easy content" and "cutting edge heroic", that's not true. They could very well add a new 5 man difficulty of TBC or Cata level difficulty that isn't forced into random match making and isn't mandatory.

Allow players to use LFD to do normal or current heroic 5 mans, then add a "mythic" 5 man difficulty that isn't queue-able on LFD, much like how heroic scenarios work today.

Everybody's a winner, especially when you can perhaps intertwine some hard 5 mans into a patch long storyline at some point