Things that need to go

[Escariot]

Jesus H Christ.

Seems like OP played abit too much LoL.

OP doesnt like RNG, he doesnt like Luck, he doesnt like uniqueness, the only thing OP likes is a bunch of homogenized no-character classes whacking eachother off without anyone ever dying.
I can already see the BG chat in OP's version WoW: 'Wow pala WTF u doing u should be healing not doing DMG, fucking noob!' or 'Healer WTF u doing NOOB just heal me noob, why are you CC the enemy???'

OP you should uninnstall wow and go back to playing LoL, and hopefully never return either.

[Coraulten]

Jesus H Christ.

Seems like OP played abit too much LoL.

OP doesnt like RNG, he doesnt like Luck, he doesnt like uniqueness, the only thing OP likes is a bunch of homogenized no-character classes whacking eachother off without anyone ever dying.
I can already see the BG chat in OP's version WoW: 'Wow pala WTF u doing u should be healing not doing DMG, fucking noob!' or 'Healer WTF u doing NOOB just heal me noob, why are you CC the enemy???'

OP you should uninnstall wow and go back to playing LoL, and hopefully never return either.

I missed the part where the OP said he doesn't like RNG, can you point it out for me?

I missed the part where the OP said he doesn't like Luck, can you point it out for me?

I missed the part where the OP Likes homogenized no-character classes, can you point it out for me?

I am humbled by your ability to see into the future and direct you to; http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/...c-changes.html

[Venziir]

... So you'd remove like 50% of all abilities in the game because you find them to mess up your PvP? Hah, well I suppose one can always dream... It's a PvE game mate, the sooner you realise this; the better.

[Swiftninja]

What is this Vanilla?

[Saberstrike]

I realize it's a PvE game. I also realize no one ever uses things like cyclone, half of hunter cc, necro strike or subterfuge in "true hardcore mlg pve" (lol that even a thing?).

You might be right in thinking I want less gimmicky / 'class defining' things that weren't even there until cataclysm. The model isn't so much based on league of legends as it is on a shooter like, say, team fortress 2 (since Blizzard is already selling hats...) - easy to learn, hard to master. I don't think TF2 would benefit if engineers built cyclone cannons, soldiers randomly got 4x damage on their rockets and snipers summoned a battalion of scouts to peck at people.

homogenized no-character classes whacking eachother off without anyone ever dying.

I'm sorry but you're an idiot. MoP is what gave everyone spammable cc, an interrupt, same kinds of 'rotation' in your precious pve (Guess a class! Strong hit, medium hit, filler hit, aoe, proc, buff, cooldown, cc) and copying of others' mechanics like you wouldn't believe (5 holy powers you get from weak moves and spend on strong, rogues say hi!).

I want all classes to have less stuff, which will in turn make the little stuff they have feel more unique.


Also fixed the OP, it's holy avenger and not archangel. Who could ever remember all the divine and holy paladin crap ><

[Jester Joe]

Shaman: Resto mastery, Ascendance, Fire elemental (it takes up half the screen), elemental's slotmachine of lava burst procs, stormblast, instant hex / hex while moving, tremor totem, damage spread between no cooldowns / procs and full cooldowns / procs, riptide's low cooldown, low manacost on resto heals,

I know this is for PvP, but still. First off, Fire elemental does not take up half the screen...and that's a silly reason to remove it.
Second off, resto heals aren't "low mana cost" really, it's just resto shamans get mana back for a few heals when they crit.
Third off, I get that you're talking yet again from just a PvP perspective, but you have to include PvE while balancing you know, this would ruin a lot like this.

Just my 2 cents.

I realize it's a PvE game. I also realize no one ever uses things like cyclone, half of hunter cc, necro strike or subterfuge in "true hardcore mlg pve" (lol that even a thing?).

Also I believe there's just as much if not more competition in PvE too compared to PvP, it's just PvE is in a burst when content comes out.

Also have you ever done challenge modes? It's just one example of where you would use quite a bit of CC when needed.

[Fullmetal89]

Only thing I would love to see disappear is Holy Power on Paladins. That is the main reason I haven't touched my paladin since Cataclysm. The class went from my favorite class to my least favorite in the span of a few months.

[crakerjack]

I do agree that they need to make changes, but I'd sooner get rid of the big abilities that are insane instead of removing the basics. Increased casting time has always been in the game and curse of tongues has always been a warlocks best friend against casters. I do agree they can make druid forms cost a lot more so that people don't hop out as much... only reason it costs nothing is because they were able to change form to get out of slows/roots, but now that they removed that, I don't see any issues w/ making forms cost a lot of mana. There are more issues, but the game has gone so far south that I doubt blizzard would implement any of the ideas we create , even if they were game changing for the better.

[Redlikemyrage]

I missed the part where the OP said he doesn't like RNG, can you point it out for me?

I missed the part where the OP said he doesn't like Luck, can you point it out for me?

I missed the part where the OP Likes homogenized no-character classes, can you point it out for me?

I am humbled by your ability to see into the future and direct you to; http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/...c-changes.html

Wanting to remove dodge and parry, I'm assuming, is what the guy you responded to meant when he said he doesn't like RNG. Since that's the only true RNG I can think of left in pvp at this point. I think maybe that's also the luck part?

As far as the rest, I dunno man.

OT: This is yet another topic eluding to why average 1500 rated players should stfu about pvp balance.

[Flaks]

They need to flat out remove some burst cds from some specs. Bloodbath makes perfect sense for arms warriors. Avatar is Death Wish as in it should be fury only. Shockwave should never have been made available to warrior dps specs. This is all just for my own class.

A LOT of other specs have gotten access to talents they really shouldn't have and in doing so managed to become exponentially more bursty or survivable or mobile or CC monsters.

[Saberstrike]

Since that's the only true RNG I can think of left in pvp at this point. I think maybe that's also the luck part?

RNG / luck is fine if it's something little like crit / no crit.

It's not fine when I get colossus smash, mortal strike and 3 slams randomly (yeah right, 25% baby) parried in a row; Or if a shaman gets 5 lava bursts that all in total hit for 400k in a global, through 75% resilience need I remind you.

The worst cases of RNG at the moment are elemental shaman and balance druid, that kind of proc-scumming gameplay is just unacceptable.

They need to flat out remove some burst cds from some specs. Bloodbath makes perfect sense for arms warriors. Avatar is Death Wish as in it should be fury only. Shockwave should never have been made available to warrior dps specs.

This is for my own class. A LOT of other specs have gotten access to talents they really shouldn't have and in doing so managed to become exponentially more bursty or survivable or mobile or CC monsters.

Agreed 100%. Resto druid is where it's the worst.

[Redlikemyrage]

They need to flat out remove some burst cds from some specs. Bloodbath makes perfect sense for arms warriors. Avatar is Death Wish as in it should be fury only. Shockwave should never have been made available to warrior dps specs. This is all just for my own class.

A LOT of other specs have gotten access to talents they really shouldn't have and in doing so managed to become exponentially more bursty or survivable or mobile or CC monsters.

Yeah, I think we'd be better of tying a lot of things back to class specs instead of giving things like shockwave, shadowstep, shatter combos for non-frost and silencing shot (pre 5.4, I know) to everyone.

That, and the desire to at least attempt to make most/all specs competitive in PvP and PvE backfired a little bit. Mages, for example, enjoy producing great numbers as frost in PvE currently. This is a great thing for the PvE game, because arcane doesn't appeal to everyone, and fire requires heroic gear to be worth it. This is all, however, bad for PvP. How can Blizzard justify nerfing frost's damage (which is currently over-the-top) when so many players play frost in PvE, and would then be forced to switch? Blizzard put themselves in a catch-22 in MoP and are going to need to scramble hard to fix it for WoD.

[Coraulten]

Wanting to remove dodge and parry, I'm assuming, is what the guy you responded to meant when he said he doesn't like RNG. Since that's the only true RNG I can think of left in pvp at this point. I think maybe that's also the luck part?

As far as the rest, I dunno man.

OT: This is yet another topic eluding to why average 1500 rated players should stfu about pvp balance.

Idk, luck and RNG from my experience are often interchangeable when talking about either in the game. The OT only referred to dodge/parry there is also Crit, the entirety of WW monks damaging abilities ( more so than other classes) possibly others i can't think of from a purely RNG perspective, but from a luck perspective there are so many variables that it would be hard to name/count them all. But i doubt he merely just made a mistake based on the rest of his post and was just being an idiot.

I disagree that 1500 players should not be vocal about balance. If there are issues in the 1500 bracket that can be fixed without the higher end feeling it would it not be a good idea to fix it? If the lower brackets were "smoother" would it not attract more new PVPers and make the PVP community grow. PVP is often called a side game but it has grown to be quite large and as such blizzard has had to make Devs focused on PVP, would it not be safe to assume the more players that PVP the more effort blizzard would have to put into PVP?

Just my 2Cents regarding lower rated players perspective on balance.

[Phossage]

Let's just have one class that throws rocks and spits at their target. Pure balance...

[Zorperior]

So, PvP would be:
Generic Orc A has hit you with Generic Sword for 500 damage.
Generic Human has healed you with Generic Spell for 300 health.

Yeah, so much fun.

[Krazzorx]

Yeah, I think we'd be better of tying a lot of things back to class specs instead of giving things like shockwave, shadowstep, shatter combos for non-frost and silencing shot (pre 5.4, I know) to everyone.

That, and the desire to at least attempt to make most/all specs competitive in PvP and PvE backfired a little bit. Mages, for example, enjoy producing great numbers as frost in PvE currently. This is a great thing for the PvE game, because arcane doesn't appeal to everyone, and fire requires heroic gear to be worth it. This is all, however, bad for PvP. How can Blizzard justify nerfing frost's damage (which is currently over-the-top) when so many players play frost in PvE, and would then be forced to switch? Blizzard put themselves in a catch-22 in MoP and are going to need to scramble hard to fix it for WoD.

That won't happen. A few recent tweets that they've said they don't want pure pvp specs and the like. They want ideally all specs to be useful in all aspects of the game.

[Redlikemyrage]

Idk, luck and RNG from my experience are often interchangeable when talking about either in the game. The OT only referred to dodge/parry there is also Crit, the entirety of WW monks damaging abilities ( more so than other classes) possibly others i can't think of from a purely RNG perspective, but from a luck perspective there are so many variables that it would be hard to name/count them all. But i doubt he merely just made a mistake based on the rest of his post and was just being an idiot.

I disagree that 1500 players should not be vocal about balance. If there are issues in the 1500 bracket that can be fixed without the higher end feeling it would it not be a good idea to fix it? If the lower brackets were "smoother" would it not attract more new PVPers and make the PVP community grow. PVP is often called a side game but it has grown to be quite large and as such blizzard has had to make Devs focused on PVP, would it not be safe to assume the more players that PVP the more effort blizzard would have to put into PVP?

Just my 2Cents regarding lower rated players perspective on balance.

I would be all for them balancing a class or spec around the 1500 players if it wouldn't be felt at the higher end. The problem, I think, is that this is near impossible.

- - - Updated - - -

That won't happen. A few recent tweets that they've said they don't want pure pvp specs and the like. They want ideally all specs to be useful in all aspects of the game.

I don't know that the fix is necessarily to go backwards, nor was I really suggesting that. I was rather simply suggesting that something needs to be done. Whether it involves baking a bunch of spells back into specs or whatever I don't know. Keeping more specs good in more areas of the game is good for the game, IMO.

[Saberstrike]

most of your choices would just make everything about sustained which is boring btw.

It's an RPG, not a call of duty <_<. Although at this point it may as well be.

In a small way, you're right - having 100k hp and 500 damage attacks in a vacuum would be quite boring, and indeed it is as shown by pve where things that pose no threat to you still take 20 minutes to kill in spite of all the crazy damage. What you're forgetting here is that there's more to PvP than standing still with an enemy infront of you exchanging auto attacks.

PvP should be more about objectives, positioning, smart counter-use of abilities and a tactical play vs the other team. There used to be a word for it. That word is 'outplayed' -- and at this point in the game, it's not used for anything but irony precisely because everyone has too much of everything, including burst more than half of which just happens regardless of whether the player is actually good. To counter burst, we need crazy 'smart' heals. To counter crazy heals, we need crazy CC all around just to make sure something dies. See where the problem lies?

[Teokis]

With the expansion or otherwise, here's a list of things that just need to disappear from the game or at least be adjusted to be less of a mindless powerhouse.

General: passive dodge and parry, passive mana regeneration during combat, things that make casting speed longer, interrupt immunities, stupid cooldown stacking.


Druid: Heart of the Wild, free shapeshifting out of everything (keep it as a mechanic but make it have a higher cost, eg. 20% of druid's mana per shapeshift), blink, bear healing for non-guardian, moonkin playstyle (spray dots 'n pray for procs + eclipse are just clunky mechanics that neither druids themselves nor the one they randomly crit for 250k enjoy), feral slow on everything (remove from mangle), faerie fire with no cooldown, root with no cooldown, cyclone (I know it's been nerfed and nerfed and nerfed which is why I think it's just a bad idea for a spell and it needs to go), a combination of heals' low manacost with the ability to spam most while bouncing around like a moron (resto and balance to a degree), incarnation.

/rant over. Agree? Disagree? Got other things in mind? Let's try and help Blizzard make WoD the best PvP expansion ever by ending the arms race and pushing them in the right direction.

Just going to comment on Druid, even though I play multiple classes @ 2200+. Druid is my main.

HoTW: Please give me some big survivability buffs if you want that, and seeing as I play Boomkin right now. I will have almost none left vs KFC, Thug, WMD..and whatever else FOTM Comps people play.

Shapeshifting: Ugh really? It's a key trait of druids, and they need it. Kiting is something all druid need to learn.

Blink: They removed the Vanish, I think it's fine. IMO.

Bear Healing : People use this? D:

Moonkin Playstyle: No comment right now, But I agree it's annoying at times. (250k Starsurges?! What?)

FF: Dispel it and Vanish. (Feral, meh. Stealth isn't a big thing)

Root: Kind of like saying add CD to Poly, Fear, Clone...?

Cyclone: Remove it? What..come on now, I would give better answers but it just seems like you're throwing stuff you don't like out there.

Healing: Spamming Rejuv while jumping bothers you.

Incarnation: Remove a damage CD that we talent for. Ok.


Conclusion:

I almost didn't reply seriously (and didn't in some) because of your main post. Basically you just listed key things of every class and said to change/remove it. A lot of it actually made me laugh and now i'm tempted to post about different classes also. Some of your ideas aren't bad though. Maybe try and add some input for everything you want to change/remove and give us some idea to go from.

I do like how you want PvP to get more attention it seems though! +1 for that.

Oh.

Interupt Immunity: Why do you want to remove that? :>

[Saberstrike]

HoTW: Please give me some big survivability buffs if you want that, and seeing as I play Boomkin right now. I will have almost none left vs KFC, Thug, WMD..and whatever else FOTM Comps people play.

See, that's exactly what I'm talking about. I'm not saying to -just- remove heart of the wild, it'll have to be done with a lot more nerfs to the crazy burst across the board.

Shapeshifting: Ugh really? It's a key trait of druids, and they need it. Kiting is something all druid need to learn.

I don't mind shapeshifting, I just want to limit it to be something a druid considers as a meaningful choice, rather than being a dope for not using their forms on gcd.

Blink: They removed the Vanish, I think it's fine. IMO.

It's not really considering it's a powerful escape that can be used while silenced by a resto / boomie.

Root: Kind of like saying add CD to Poly, Fear, Clone...?

Yeah. At this point I think adding cooldown to all those things is the easiest solution to CC-bloat.

Healing: Spamming Rejuv while jumping bothers you.

It does. Generally I think too many classes now can heal / do what they're supposed to do without having to stop for it, which is a part of the bad arms race design.

Hunters is where it's the worst. I love all those delusional BMs who think they suddenly got real skilled with MoP, not realizing the depth of how broken the class became by being able to do their thing without ever having to stop.

Incarnation: Remove a damage CD that we talent for. Ok.

Just because it's a talent doesn't mean it's not an over the top thing that just adds to the '20 second god, 3 minute useless' playstyle.

Interupt Immunity: Why do you want to remove that?

Because while I am all for counterplay, I think some things are just not meant to be countered. Stuff like warrior removing roots, casters being tankier than melee (I'm looking at you, warlocks) and people being able to cast 'in my face' while I can't do a thing about it. What's next? Let's make rogue shiv break interrupt immunity, and then make another thing that makes paladin interrupt immunity undispellable when they wear a dress and dance under the moon.

It feels wrong, is all.