Things that need to go

[Deleted]

Dispel CD. There you go. Faster games, less CC, reaction based games. But you have to bring back trash buffs.

[Austilias]

Things that need to go? Mage. The entire class in all 3 specs is unbearable.

[rinleezwins]

Those things need to go... why? Because you can't figure out a way to counter them?

[Saberstrike]

I know there's ways to counter most of them. The problem is, those solutions often require more effort than they're worth -- eg full concentration of dk + warrior to catch and kill a resto druid through all of the defensive things he has, none of which stop him from continuing to do his job while running away. Half of them go through silence / roots.

They need to go precisely because of class identity many of you seem to be so keen to think those abilities create, when in reality all they do is break it. Everyone having everything doesn't give everyone a special identity, it's the other way around.

And where did I ask for an IWIN button?

[Deleted]

Dumbest post ive read in a long time. You basicly wanna remove ½ the game, while buffing your own class that i asume is a DK. While removeing anything in the game that is good against you.

[Saberstrike]

Lay off the DK thing already. My mains are a monk and a warrior.

[dak1]

It doesn't surprise me there's a lot of crying about the proposed changes, since people in general seem to be pretty negative, and you did offer nerfs for every class, which is going to bother somebody. The suggestions that this removes everything seem to be just crazy hyperbole, and a lot of people complaining about specific nerfs clearly are missing the fact that many other changes would be made (and would have to be made) that can't be adequately captured in a few hundred words (or even a few thousand).

Now, there's certainly things you proposed that I don't agree with, or other things I'd add, but I think it's a pretty decent initial attempt to compile a list of some of the most egregious issues.

[Terahertz]

Wow am I glad you're not a part of the balancing team. Basically 80% of your suggestions is to remove the most iconic abilities classes have. I mean, CloS sharing CD with vanish? Fists of Fury stun gone? SPECTRAL GUISE AND FEAR SHARING CD? Water ele gone, cold snap gone and ice block as a talent? Alter time not storing procs? Seriously, these changes would make a game of rock paper scissors. You wouldn't be able to kill -anything-.

I mean, I agree with some of the changes, like shadowstep being baseline, some of the warrior changes, trap launcher should cost focus again or should decrease trap duration, cooldown stacking in general, too much damage during tigereye brew and a couple of others. But besides those it's basically remove everything xD

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

I would challenge the OP or anyone else supporting shit like that to actually play those classes (minus DK) with the proposed changes. As in, don't use Time Shift or anything else the OP mnetioned and play a mage in Arena. See how fun it would be.

- - - Updated - - -

It doesn't surprise me there's a lot of crying about the proposed changes, since people in general seem to be pretty negative, and you did offer nerfs for every class, which is going to bother somebody. The suggestions that this removes everything seem to be just crazy hyperbole, and a lot of people complaining about specific nerfs clearly are missing the fact that many other changes would be made (and would have to be made) that can't be adequately captured in a few hundred words (or even a few thousand).

Now, there's certainly things you proposed that I don't agree with, or other things I'd add, but I think it's a pretty decent initial attempt to compile a list of some of the most egregious issues.

I wouldn't call most of those "issues" egregious. I think this list should be called "Things that annoy the OP"

[Saberstrike]

I would challenge the OP or anyone else supporting shit like that to actually play those classes (minus DK) with the proposed changes. As in, don't use Time Shift or anything else the OP mnetioned and play a mage in Arena. See how fun it would be.

The narrow perspective of your statement is that all of the changes I proposed had to be made all together, with further adjustments / changes to other mechanics such as item level / damage - healing ratio / etc. etc.

In fact, I challenge YOU to take the statement as a bigger picture as opposed to just tearing one-nerf-to-your-class-you-don't-like out and acting like it's be-all and end-all of my thread (which, as it turns out, is somehow a secret conspiracy to buff DKs whom I apparently play).

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

The narrow perspective of your statement is that all of the changes I proposed had to be made all together, with further adjustments / changes to other mechanics such as item level / damage - healing ratio / etc. etc.

In fact, I challenge YOU to take the statement as a bigger picture as opposed to just tearing one-nerf-to-your-class-you-don't-like out and acting like it's be-all and end-all of my thread (which, as it turns out, is somehow a secret conspiracy to buff DKs whom I apparently play).

I would say you probably do play a DK. And I guess that mean you are too cowardly to take my challenge huh?

[Sithalos]

Just use the Warrior nerfs imo.

[Saberstrike]

I would say you probably do play a DK. And I guess that mean you are too cowardly to take my challenge huh?

So are you, mr. mage, so are you. ;>

There's a thin line between bravery and stupidity. Either you're bad at baiting or you're an adept of both.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

So are you, mr. mage, so are you. ;>

There's a thin line between bravery and stupidity. Either you're bad at baiting or you're an adept of both.

No, I'm not a mage.

So am I what? I am cowardly for what? I'm not the one proposing ridiculous changes. You also didn't mention healing or damage ratio changes. Just a removal of many spells and mechanics that make classes unique.

How long have you played this game? I remember in Vanilla Warlocks would basically just stand still; Cast 2 dots and fear you, then cast shadowbolt over and over. This is basically what many classes would revert to given your changes.

So again, take my challenge or quiet down.

[Saberstrike]

No, I'm not a mage.

So am I what? I am cowardly for what? I'm not the one proposing ridiculous changes. You also didn't mention healing or damage ratio changes. Just a removal of many spells and mechanics that make classes unique.

How long have you played this game? I remember in Vanilla Warlocks would basically just stand still; Cast 2 dots and fear you, then cast shadowbolt over and over. This is basically what many classes would revert to given your changes.

So again, take my challenge or quiet down.

I'm sorry but are you telling me things are somehow different now? The only thing that's changed is you buff yourself up before you dot away and basically do the same thing, with the addition of malefic grasp and a few other things that are basically glorified / dumbed down drain life. Addition of fillers is not the same as new and exciting class mechanics. Just because you have more buttons to press doesn't mean things are better, different or more complex in a way beyond having to train yourself towards one additional reflex.

I told you I ain't taking your attempts at being white knight of the interwebs seriously. Try and read into what I'm trying to say instead of giving me a reason to link this clip.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

I'm sorry but are you telling me things are somehow different now? The only thing that's changed is you buff yourself up before you dot away and basically do the same thing, with the addition of malefic grasp and a few other things that are basically glorified / dumbed down drain life. Addition of fillers is not the same as new and exciting class mechanics. Just because you have more buttons to press doesn't mean things are better, different or more complex in a way beyond having to train yourself towards one additional reflex.

I told you I ain't taking your attempts at being white knight of the interwebs seriously. Try and read into what I'm trying to say instead of giving me a reason to link this clip.

Things are much different. A lot of the things you want to axe from Locks for instance revolve around their mobility. Teleports, MG lets them move and cast, and so does Demon Portal.

Yes, things are much different. I'm not white knighting, (Are you sure you know what that means?) I am arguing against your bad idea.

[Saberstrike]

Running and casting is perhaps among the worst ideas that ever happened to this game. Casters are MEANT TO stand still to be able to do damage, as are healers and I'd argue hunters. It's what's supposed to be their weakness to compensate for 40 yard range along with no-longer limited mana. Yes, I know melee also got too many gap closers, which is why those need a good hard looking at as well.

"BUT ITS BORING TO STAND AND CAST!" - you say? Well then maybe you shouldn't roll a caster, it's that simple!

Locks in particular... Look, I wrote what i had to write about locks. You could run and dot since vanilla, and there was never a need for little beam thingy to make your dots hit harder. Portals provide too much utility and are the reason everyone hates nagrand, while dark soul is a bland ability that doesn't in the slightest fit into the lock's 'suppressive multidotting' kit. Affliction shouldn't burst.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

Running and casting is perhaps among the worst ideas that ever happened to this game. Casters are MEANT TO stand still to be able to do damage, as are healers and I'd argue hunters. It's what's supposed to be their weakness to compensate for 40 yard range along with no-longer limited mana. Yes, I know melee also got too many gap closers, which is why those need a good hard looking at as well.

"BUT ITS BORING TO STAND AND CAST!" - you say? Well then maybe you shouldn't roll a caster, it's that simple!

Locks in particular... Look, I wrote what i had to write about locks. You could run and dot since vanilla, and there was never a need for little beam thingy to make your dots hit harder. Portals provide too much utility and are the reason everyone hates nagrand, while dark soul is a bland ability that doesn't in the slightest fit into the lock's 'suppressive multidotting' kit. Affliction shouldn't burst.

No, the reality of it is this: "BUT I DONT LIKE PLAYING AGAINST CASTERS WHO MOVE!" Youd say? Well then maybe you shouldn't pvp in WoW. /End of thread.

You could run and dot since vanilla... with your two dots lol? I don't see why you are writing as if you're the authority on anything. Your ideas to nerf everything but DKs is bad. Utility = fun and more interesting.

[Anger78]

Hunter: trap launcher (needs to at least have a cost), stampede, ability to run and shoot (this should be a short cooldown rather than a permanent thing. Think something like 10 sec duration / 30 sec cd, allowing hunters to use anything while running), no cost on hunter cc, no DR on hunter cc, CC on pets, entire f'ing tier dedicated to MORE CC with no shared DR, double deterrence and deterrence in general (make it cost 100 focus and prevent focus regen while it's active at least), hunter's mark (at this point in the game it's just redundant).

Trap Launcher - Could care less
Stampede - One of our major DPS cool downs. You would need to compensate us for its loss
Ability to run and shoot - So we can no long fight melee at all. Just have to stand there and take it too the face
Deterrence - So we can't move and shoot and now you want to get ride of our only meaningful defensive cool down. Where you camped by a hunter recently?
Nerf Hunter Tier - Again need to replace it with meaningful abilities
Hunter's Mark - Need to compensate us for the DPS loss again.

Pretty much you want to gut our pets as well. You should probably just advocate the removal of the class as that is pretty much what you're asking for.
I'm okay with a reduction of CC as long as it's across the board. I've always felt every class should have 1 CC and 1 interrupt anyway

[Saberstrike]

That's right, I don't like playing against casters who move. I don't like playing WITH casters who move either because it severely devalues positioning. Utility may be fun for you but you also have to think of the players you're fighting - is it fun for them when you just teleport up the bridge in nagrand with pretty much no penalty what so ever?

DKs are to be nerfed as well, I'm just not sure which ability in particular to aim the nerfs at. Blanket nerf to damage won't do. Give me some ideas instead of bashing and not offering anything in return? I'm writing like I'm the authority because this is my thread and you're not offering anything constructive in your aggressive disagreements.

Hunters. Why, yes, I want hunters to return to what they're meant to be - a ranger who has to stand still, take aim and shoot for the head, not bounce around while his army of minions tears everyone apart, allowing hunter itself to go wild with free CC of all colors and flavors that in no way hinder the damage.

Deterrence is a dumb mechanic because there's nothing you can do to counter it and frankly such a powerful cooldown doesn't feel like it belongs on a hunter. Let alone two of them. Let alone when you already have 3 perfectly good escapes (master's call, disengage + root, scatter + trap). Running and shooting feels too powerful to just be a passive, as I said I don't mind if hunters keep it but it should come with a cost or a duration.

The worst thing about deterrence is that in the hands of a bad hunter it just wastes 10 seconds of your day. He knows he'd die when he's lost a partner or two, yet still continues being an annoyance with both deterrences, traps, disengage web and pillar-humping against 2/3 people who're clearly about to murder him once all his endless CC fades.

Hunter damage in PvP is already quite over the top, I don't believe you'll need compensations. But even if so, it ain't hard to just bake 5% attack power from hunter's mark into your trueshot aura.