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  1. #141
    Quote Originally Posted by Airwaves View Post
    I feel the same. I raided for 8 years. I did every bit of content. I help run a guild for most of it and I was GM for 3 years of that. I was ranked one of the highest dps in the world and never fucked up. If I was to apply for a guild ever again I would NOT fill out an application. They can either take my word for it and get one of the best players that guild has ever gotten or I will simply find someone else that will take me. Their loss not mine.
    I don't think that's a reasonable approach.

    The application process serves many purposes. First of all, it establishes the applicant's interest in joining. Second, it provides a permanent consolidation of all the information you need about the player (guild and raiding history, attitude, etc) for every member of the guild to see and discuss. Third, it acts as a rapid and efficient screening. The best player ever is not necessarily a player you want in your group, as they can very easily be the wrong players for the guild. And this works two ways as well, as the applicant can then interact with the guild to judge THEM and deem if they fit.
    Shahaad , Kevkul
    <Magdalena's pet>

  2. #142
    Quote Originally Posted by durrtygoodz View Post

    * Look at the date. D = day, M = month, Y = year. Use those numbers.
    How much is 3*Y-5*D*M+4*Y*0-28?
    3y-5dm+4y*0-28
    3y-5dm-28
    3(2014)-5(11)(1)-28
    6042-55-28
    5959

    Took approximately 16 seconds without a calculator.

  3. #143
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by celinamuna View Post
    Tbh agree with OP. Most of the time if im actually interested in joining guild i hop in vent/mumble and link logs. Everything else is just padding/bs.
    Well, yes and no.

    The problem with getting a recruit nowadays, is that 95% of the playerbase is players that you do not want. Applications are not there to find the players that you do want, but rather to weed out the players you do not want. Being one of those 5% players that perhaps a raid leader is looking for, writing an application may seem stupid and unnecessary, but after being a recruiter for multiple guilds, 10 and 25 man, casual and hardcore, you would be surprised by the applicaitons you recieve and how few of them are actually worthwhile.

    A lot of people say, just do a flex with them! Check their logs! Talk with them on ventrilo! The thing with all these options is that they are quite time consuming and inefficient. If you would do that with every person that would apply, you would waste hours and hours of time for no gain. You would have to bring together both the applicant and the recruiters, which often is 2-5 people depending on 10/25 man guild, at the same time only to waste your time and decline him. Applications allows you to reduce those 95% of unwanted applicatios to maybe 20%, which makes the other options far more efficient.

    I also would not say that checking logs is the most efficient way either, it may tell you if the player knows how to press his buttons fairly good, but that is far from everything. In an application you can learn if he knows WHY he presses his buttons, and that is a huge difference. There is also something that applications tell you better than a trial raid/voice chat interview or logs ever could. Namely, the motivations a person have for raiding, how likely he is to stay with the guild, how reliable he is, how much effort he puts in and if he is one of those reset day raiders or if he is fine with wiping.

    It is often also not about what the player writes in the application, but rather about what he does not write. Applications alone is not a way to base recruitment, but it is for sure a mandatory part of any serious guilds reruitment and will continue to be so.

  4. #144
    Quote Originally Posted by Kevkul View Post
    The best player ever is not necessarily a player you want in your group, as they can very easily be the wrong players for the guild. And this works two ways as well, as the applicant can then interact with the guild to judge THEM and deem if they fit.
    And this kind of reasoning makes it hard to argue why apps aren't a good idea for the more serious guilds. I can't tell you how many reasonable apps I've seen that have a "My shit doesn't stink" attitude or, "I know better than the rest of you.". Those kinds of people gets on everyone's nerves, regardless how good they are, and aren't really missed, or are mocked after the fact.

  5. #145
    Mechagnome BEYR's Avatar
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    Its 25% guilds who take themselves way too seriously and 75% guilds weeding out people too lazy to fill out the app.
    You either die a Varian, or live long enough to see yourself become a Thrall...

  6. #146
    Legendary! Airwaves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevkul View Post
    I don't think that's a reasonable approach.

    The application process serves many purposes. First of all, it establishes the applicant's interest in joining. Second, it provides a permanent consolidation of all the information you need about the player (guild and raiding history, attitude, etc) for every member of the guild to see and discuss. Third, it acts as a rapid and efficient screening. The best player ever is not necessarily a player you want in your group, as they can very easily be the wrong players for the guild. And this works two ways as well, as the applicant can then interact with the guild to judge THEM and deem if they fit.
    Oh it isn't a reasonable approach. If I was still a GM I would have people fill out an application. But for me I see it as a waste of time. The guild can take me or not. I don't really care. Who ever gets me gets a very good player. It is their loss in the end not mine. Yes yes I am a hypocrite.
    Aye mate

  7. #147
    Quote Originally Posted by Bigitybones View Post
    its a GAME they are meant for fun apps only push away potential raiders and wonder of wonders wow is suffering a lack of competent raiders.

    competent raiders have no problem at all to find a spot in good raiding guild - its usually the gear hungry scrubs who have such problems -_-

  8. #148
    Quote Originally Posted by Airwaves View Post
    Oh it isn't a reasonable approach. If I was still a GM I would have people fill out an application. But for me I see it as a waste of time. The guild can take me or not. I don't really care. Who ever gets me gets a very good player. It is their loss in the end not mine. Yes yes I am a hypocrite.
    Filling out a basic format application takes what 10-15mins, if you can't even do that then why would they even want you in the guild, you don't have the correct attitude so you possibly wouldn't get on with players in the guild because you think your better than you are, it's not the loss of a guild not getting a player with an attitude like yours.

    Anyone can say their a good player but to be in a top guild you need to prove it before you even get a trial.
    Last edited by kenn9530; 2014-01-12 at 02:03 AM.

  9. #149
    High Overlord Felocity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vorondil View Post
    ?? doing flex doesn't show how one raids, typing stuff on a form does show how one raids? a strange mind you have.
    I guess it depends on what kind of guild you're applying to
    overall "copy pasting theory crafting" shows that you actually read the theory crafting / know where to find it and know about the class mechanics.

    Flex really dosnt show how well you do when actual mechanics come into play i can stand in every mechanic and tunnel in flex where as in heroics you really cant do that so obviously performance will differ

    Number 1 Enchantment shaman world 8) soon to be deathknight

  10. #150
    Quote Originally Posted by GlazeyB View Post
    Honestly, having tons of questions is a complete joke. Rather you prove it through logs, since you can pick and choose whichs one you would really want to share with the guild you're applying too.
    For us it's the opposite. Knowing who you are is just as important as your performance in raids. This is a social game, our guild focuses equally on progress as we do on the guild environment.
    Why would you want to raid with pricks?

  11. #151
    Mechagnome Kelzam's Avatar
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    Any guild I've ever been in that didn't enjoy progression raiding success were the same guys that just recruited the first guy that sent them a tell, or whom recruited out of trade chat. The application process is a sign that you give a shit about being a team member and raiding with the guild you're joining; and, if you're having to fill out an application more than likely that means they're serious enough about progression that they want to make sure you are as well. You can actually learn a lot about players by how they talk about themselves and answer those questions. If you're trying to join a progression guild that wants you to stick around and be part of a team (not join and leave after you get BIS, your mount or achievement), they're going to want to know if you're worth their time. They expect you to show up 3-4 nights a week for multiple hours per night and not have to pug a replacement. If you can't take the time to fill out an application, they're going to know that you're a waste of their time.

  12. #152
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    I have personally read probably over 1,000 applications, and interviewed probably well over 500. My application is not overly complicated, but it does have some very important things that I look for. While the application process may seem old and tired to you, I assure you it is necessary. My guild invests a huge amount of resources into every one of our raiders, and having been stabbed in the back many times, I use my applications as a screening tool. I've read so many that I can very quickly identify red flags, that immediately alert me to whether you'd be a good fit or not.

    I can tell just by the way you respond, whether you have the ability to communicate effectively. In intense heroic progression, the ability to clearly and concisely communicate time sensitive information is of way more importance then your epic deeps. How you will fit in socially with my guild is almost 50% of what I'm looking for as well. Arrogance shows on an app. Lack of confidence shows. Respect shows. Intolerance shows. Intelligence or lack thereof shows. And I promise you I'm not the only GM who can spot a "copy-paste" a MILE away, as we've seen it all time and time again. Bottom line, if you can't be bothered to fill out my very simple app completely, I won't ask my 30+ raiders to be bothered carrying you.
    Sinthetik, Blood DK, BM Monk, GM, Exiled From Hell, US Premiere Daytime Progression Guild. 7/7 Mythic HM, 10/10 Mythic BRF. 12/13 Mythic, 13/13 Heroic HFC.

  13. #153
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by durrtygoodz View Post
    I will agree though, that some applications ask some pretty stupid shit. But if you don't like the app, just don't apply. No need to complain about it.

    Here are some hilarious sample questions from an application to a guild that will remain unnamed:

    * Please explain, very briefly, the main function of the following resources:

    - Elitist Jerks
    - Wowhead
    - The Curse Client
    - Simcraft
    - The Absence section of the guild forum

    * How many Noodles can you take from a Noodle cart?

    * Look at the date. D = day, M = month, Y = year. Use those numbers.
    How much is 3*Y-5*D*M+4*Y*0-28?
    Never thought I'd see my own guild talked about in such a thread

    But anyhow, I dont see why the first part is remotely bad, if a DPS player doesnt know what Simcraft is, chances are they dont care enough about optimising their character for us to care to accept them.

    The noodle question is just a joke question after an applicant recently admitted to using a whole stack of his own food because he thought you could only pick up a single buff food from the cart at once.

    The math question is incredibly easy for anyone that's done even basic primary school maths, not sure why it's an issue lol
    Last edited by mmoc3467e405f7; 2014-01-12 at 05:37 AM.

  14. #154
    Brewmaster Cwimge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Airwaves View Post
    I feel the same. I raided for 8 years. I did every bit of content. I help run a guild for most of it and I was GM for 3 years of that. I was ranked one of the highest dps in the world and never fucked up. If I was to apply for a guild ever again I would NOT fill out an application. They can either take my word for it and get one of the best players that guild has ever gotten or I will simply find someone else that will take me. Their loss not mine.
    Enjoy carrying an entire guild then. Nobody worth their time would take some random scrub on word alone
    Wrath baby and proud of it

  15. #155
    Depends on the guild really. I've never had an issue with apps for guilds since it's really not that hard to fill out honestly. Though there are some guilds that go overboard with the questions. honestly most solid app formats I've filled out and used myself just involves the standard, Character information, Minor personal informations like your ages and living situation (in school, live at home with Mom&Dad work 24hrs a day all that shenanigans etc), Logs and some raiding history etc for the most part.

    Yeah people can lie about a lot of things for sure, but honestly if they have a good attitude, show up, and perform to our standards I don't care if you're a 12 year old kid living in a tree house. Also Apps can show (Not 100% OF THE TIME Mind you) that someone is willing to put in some effort. I'd rather give someone a chance who fills out a solid app and meets our requirements vs someone who's like "I'm a cool guy I do lots of DEEPS You should let me in your guild!" Apps generally bring in a higher success rate of quality raiders than the guy who refuses to app from my experience over the past 8 years.

    p.s Too dumb to app, too dumb to raid!! - joking ofc, but that's how lots of people view it as well.

  16. #156
    Well, I guess I'll just have to fill in those damned forms again!

    Long live being a sociopath!

  17. #157
    Legendary! Seezer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vorondil View Post
    Well, I guess I'll just have to fill in those damned forms again!

    Long live being a sociopath!
    Learn what a sociopath is. Because you sure aren't using it correctly. You thinking that just because someone wants you to fill out an app and you don't, that they're a sociopath means that you most likely are one. You think everything revolves around you. And it doesn't. Don't want to fill out an app? There are tons of guilds that don't have app processes. Find one of the thousands of those. People can have blood tests if they want to. Has nothing to do with you.

    Just like someone wanting to skip past 90 levels of content and purchase a boost to 90, it doesn't affect you right? Same with this. If a guild wants you to fill out an app, and you don't want to, it doesn't affect you. Because you don't have to fill it out. The "It doesn't affect you" doesn't only work for the things you want it to.
    Last edited by Seezer; 2014-01-12 at 10:13 AM.

  18. #158
    I've been the lead Recruit Officer for my guild for quite a while now, and always appreciate the huge differences in applications we get. We do it all via forum application so its 'public' and we actively encourage discussion and chatter in the public thread for the applications, its a very good way to make sure they fit in with our guild and don't cause problems. Also we can see a huge difference between someone who just copy pastaed the form and filled it in without even looking at the preview to make sure it came out right, and someone who went as far as to format it, adding all the various forum tags that you might wish to add to bring attention to certain points or even improve upon our form's design.

    We already do a lot of in-game interactions with people, and try to get a good amount of the information we can't get from an app from them before we send them off to do their app. We also get a lot of people that will happily have a 10 minute chat with you in-game about sweet-fa, but when it comes to spending 5-10 minutes writing an application suddenly thats too much effort and they don't want to join, well that suddenly made our job a lot easier, as we don't have the man power to hand-hold 30-40 people through everything, as has been mentioned, thats just time efficiency.

    Another point that we have problems with, is that if we do too much without apps, the Recruitment Team end up in very awkward situations, because we're all experienced in RL recruitment techniques as well as having done several years of WoW Recruitment, where people get very friendly with us very quickly, which I'm sure many people can sympathise with when someone wants to be your friend, but you just want to play or what ever other situation you've been in. If we had to do that with 5-20 people every month, we'd never want to log in again for fear of constant harassment from all these people...

  19. #159
    Quote Originally Posted by Vorondil View Post
    Well, I guess I'll just have to fill in those damned forms again!
    No, you don't have to fill in anything. In fact, you should not fill in any forms. Why do insist on trying to join a group whose practices you strongly object to? You clearly don't fit in with their philosophy so it's best for yourself and the guild that you don't apply and instead find a group whose playstyle matches yours.

  20. #160
    I pity the person delusional enough to believe 9/14H is "average" in this game.

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