Yes Nethaera, I'm sure he's a bad guy.

[Sal the Shieldhog]

Well he did previously throw one of his generals off a cliff for killing innocents. That seems like he took it fairly seriously at one stage.

People change. From Cata to MoP was 2 years. Imagine how much you've changed in the past 2 years, I certainly have quite a bit. Is it a stretch to say that Garrosh changed his way of thinking for certain things along the way?

[Simulacrum]

People change. From Cata to MoP was 2 years. Imagine how much you've changed in the past 2 years, I certainly have quite a bit. Is it a stretch to say that Garrosh changed his way of thinking for certain things along the way?

You've gone from killing people over an ideological nuance, to doing the very thing you were just killing people for doing?

Dang, son...

[Deleted]

No one liked it.

Speak for yourself, I have enjoyed the storyline of MOP, much more than any other expansion thus far.

I think you will find most Horde Players did not want the path that lead to "Siege of Orgrimmar"

Again, that is you. it is not all the Horde, and certainly not all the player base.

I just feel like the blues lied to us, they didn't have to chime in, discussion was already going. Why give false hope?

you really think that the blues are aware of the entire storyline of an expansion at the start of it ? How quaint.

[Milkyz]

You've gone from killing people over an ideological nuance, to doing the very thing you were just killing people for doing?

Dang, son...

Depends on what happened to you over the last two years. It's a bit tiring to see people judging BC Garrosh straight to SoO Garrosh without considering all that happened between.

[Sal the Shieldhog]

You've gone from killing people over an ideological nuance, to doing the very thing you were just killing people for doing?

Dang, son...

Well, maybe. Nothing has been able to be proven by the police yet, but we'll see.

Anyways, it's possible Garrosh did it to "save face," so to speak. Maybe he really did do it for the sake of justice, and his methods and world views changed over that time period.

In any case, power is an extremely corruptive thing, and none show it more than Blizzard. I put it down to more that, than Blizzard's bad storytelling. People forget that time actually exists in Warcraft, and seem to like to think that Garrosh happened over a few weeks or months, not the 5 or 6 years it's been in-game. And if you can't tell me you haven't changed over the last 5 years (I'm by and large a completely different man than I was 5 years ago), you're probably lying.

Depends on what happened to you over the last two years. It's a bit tiring to see people judging BC Garrosh straight to SoO Garrosh without considering all that happened between.

Exactly. They act like he happened overnight, not over a few years.

[Rixis]

you really think that the blues are aware of the entire storyline of an expansion at the start of it ? How quaint.

Not even the start of it.

The post Nethaera made was in September 2009. 3 month before Icecrown Citadel raid was even released, 4 years to the month before Siege of Orgrimmar was released. I hardly think they'd give end of expansion raid details away 4 year in advance.

[eschatological]

Cata Garrosh = not corrupted by an old god

MoP Garrosh = heart of an old god calling to him.

Makes you wonder what would have happened if Anduin hadn't crashed on Pandaria. I say we blame Anduin.

[Netherspark]

Well he did previously throw one of his generals off a cliff for killing innocents. That seems like he took it fairly seriously at one stage.

Blizzard explained this: It wasn't the killing of innocents that angered Garrosh and caused him to question the general's "honour"... it was because he wasted such a powerful weapon on a pointless target.

In Garrosh's eyes, the general's incompetence cost him his honour.

[Yig]

Mommy won't tell me what I'm getting for Christmas because she's a liar and I hate her!

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Most people have a straw man of Garrosh and hand wave him away as just another fallen character on the pile who was just turned into a 2D loot pinata. I think he actually has some interesting motivations for his actions surrounding a lot of fear of failure and overcoming shame and weakness he felt shackled by in his early life. It's a good example of how the abused become abusers, and the persecuted become the persecutors, how they justify their actions to themselves while being total hypocrites.

[Skytotem]

So you want them to tell you precisely how the game will go right to the very end? You'd like them to tell us that we will defeat Sargeras in 4 expansions with the help of precisely 4 Titans named Greg, Tina, Matthew and Jerome?
You'd like to have the story spelled out with no suspense at all?

I really think you're whining over nothing. They implied he'd get better because perhaps he still will. Or perhaps they said that because they didn't actually want to ruin the whole story from the very, very beginning of the expansion.

1. That's not what I'm asking for at all. But I wish they hadn't implied he'd get better if he's not. If the story they wanted to tell, was how the Horde handles a bad leader, thent hat'd be an interesting story, but it's not what they implied we were getting, they acted like he was fine while having him defend the death of draenei kids.

2. They're not going to have him get better, in fact I'd argue that since he was evil before he was corrupted that he's less likely to be fixed.

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Speak for yourself, I have enjoyed the storyline of MOP, much more than any other expansion thus far.


Again, that is you. it is not all the Horde, and certainly not all the player base.



you really think that the blues are aware of the entire storyline of an expansion at the start of it ? How quaint.

1. Hyperbole is apparently illegal now.

2. Actually judging by my other poll I'm in the majority.

3. then she shouldn't imply she knows something we don't to try and assuage worries.

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Cata Garrosh = not corrupted by an old god

MoP Garrosh = heart of an old god calling to him.

Makes you wonder what would have happened if Anduin hadn't crashed on Pandaria. I say we blame Anduin.

Blues said he wasn't corrupted, he made the decision to use the heart on his own.

[Deleted]

We all knew what was happening.

Yes we did know what was happening.

No one liked it.

Yes I liked it.

Why did they keep doing it?

To further the plot and make an engaging new story other than : x is a faction/racial leader, he must be good and untouchable.
To push players to feel involved in the story.

And to be honnest, it was a good idea !

[Skytotem]

Yes we did know what was happening.



Yes I liked it.



To further the plot and make an engaging new story other than : x is a faction/racial leader, he must be good and untouchable.
To push players to feel involved in the story.

And to be honnest, it was a good idea !

1. K

2. You're in the minority.

3. I'm not asking for Garrosh to be a saint, but it would've been nice to have a leader that doesn't slide from "Messiah" (Thrall, Malfuron, Varian) to Villain, it would've been nice to have a character that can want war or not always be a nice guy but that doesn't slide to having other leaders assassinated.

[Deleted]

nethaera is female btw

[Orange Joe]

1. K

2. You're in the minority.

3. I'm not asking for Garrosh to be a saint, but it would've been nice to have a leader that doesn't slide from "Messiah" (Thrall, Malfuron, Varian) to Villain, it would've been nice to have a character that can want war or not always be a nice guy but that doesn't slide to having other leaders assassinated.

Are you talking about the poll that is asking a totally different question?

[Skytotem]

Are you talking about the poll that is asking a totally different question?

The poll is asking whether people like the direction the Horde took or not, I'm not sure how you see it as a different question but if you feel I could've worded the question better I'd like to hear how.

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nethaera is female btw

So? How is that relevant?

[Sal the Shieldhog]

1. K

2. You're in the minority.

3. I'm not asking for Garrosh to be a saint, but it would've been nice to have a leader that doesn't slide from "Messiah" (Thrall, Malfuron, Varian) to Villain, it would've been nice to have a character that can want war or not always be a nice guy but that doesn't slide to having other leaders assassinated.

You can't possibly say what the majority thinks. For one, not very many people who play WoW come here to MMO-C. Not everyone is going to even bother looking at that poll, let alone bother to vote. I dare say not even Blizzard knows what the majority thinks about Garrosh's story (not that they'd likely care). In any case, using the outcry on the forums isn't a good idea; people who are unhappy are more likely to speak up and let their thoughts be known, while those who don't are less likely to speak out.

I do agree that Garrosh could've been handled better. But he's by and large the best villain WoW has had in a long, long time, far better than Deathwing and Illidan and even Arthas, in my opinion (I disliked Wrath's questing; it felt somewhat like a cartoon, wherein I thwarted Arthas' plans every few quests, he'd show up and shake his fist at me before saying, "Curses! Foiled again! NYEH!" Before taking off without saying boo to my shadow). Aside from that, the story in MoP overall has been handled far superior than anything else the other expansions have had.

He could've been done better, but he's still the best villain in WoW, in terms of story.

[Orange Joe]

The poll is asking whether people like the direction the Horde took or not, I'm not sure how you see it as a different question but if you feel I could've worded the question better I'd like to hear how.

Asking people if they like the direction the horde took is not the same as asking if they like Gorrashs devolpment.


I don't like where the horde has went, while I do like how they treated Gorrash.

[Deleted]

The poll is asking whether people like the direction the Horde took or not, I'm not sure how you see it as a different question but if you feel I could've worded the question better I'd like to hear how.

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So? How is that relevant?

I dunno you say she has a cock, I say she doesn't have one. Cockless people are generally referred to with she and her.

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Blizzard explained this: It wasn't the killing of innocents that angered Garrosh and caused him to question the general's "honour"... it was because he wasted such a powerful weapon on a pointless target.

In Garrosh's eyes, the general's incompetence cost him his honour.

Bullshit, they twisted the quest to fit their radical change of his character during mists of pandaland

[Concequence]

I think you will find most Horde Players did not want the path that lead to "Siege of Orgrimmar"

It very much does not matter what we want. The story will be what it is. I only hope it makes sense and they aren't just putting in stupid filler to drag things on forever. I want the story to be solid and meaningful from beginning to end... that's the most important thing.

Plenty of things happen in stories we don't want, that's part of it being a good story, we are invested in it. If everything you want happens, what's the point.

Walking dead spoilers that help illustrate my point:
Hershel dies... no one wanted it to happen but it did. And its sad, and we all hate it. We are sad with the characters, and we hate the Governor ... And that's how the writers want us to feel. Its part of the story.

Point being, part of a good story is going down roads no one wants to go down... because... it takes us to a better place we would never see otherwise. Lets hope that's the point of Garrosh, and that he isn't a pointless vehicle to keep us driving for no reason at all.

[Skytotem]

I dunno you say she has a cock, I say she doesn't have one. Cockless people are generally referred to with she and her.

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Bullshit, they twisted the quest to fit their radical change of his character during mists of pandaland

1. Where did I refer to her as a he? Moreover, I still don't see what it has to do with anything.

2. I just think they couldn't decide.

Asking people if they like the direction the horde took is not the same as asking if they like Gorrashs devolpment.


I don't like where the horde has went, while I do like how they treated Gorrash.

I think the two are pretty closely tied together.

He could've been done better, but he's still the best villain in WoW, in terms of story.

Only because it made a bunch of people angry and 'justified' the Alliance's hatred, of coursethey like the horde being evil.

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It very much does not matter what we want. The story will be what it is. I only hope it makes sense and they aren't just putting in stupid filler to drag things on forever. I want the story to be solid and meaningful from beginning to end... that's the most important thing.

Plenty of things happen in stories we don't want, that's part of it being a good story, we are invested in it. If everything you want happens, what's the point.

Walking dead spoilers that help illustrate my point:
Hershel dies... no one wanted it to happen but it did. And its sad, and we all hate it. We are sad with the characters, and we hate the Governor ... And that's how the writers want us to feel. Its part of the story.

Point being, part of a good story is going down roads no one wants to go down... because... it takes us to a better place we would never see otherwise. Lets hope that's the point of Garrosh, and that he isn't a pointless vehicle to keep us driving for no reason at all.

I don't think Garrosh is an example of that being done WELL though.

There's a difference between shock value / player rage-indignation and emotional investment.