is having 2 disc priests in a 10 man raid group workable?

[Deleted]

Yes it is.

This is quite simply factually incorrect. Disc are still very strong healers, and certainly still shine during low-damage phases (or on fights like Sha with no damage at all), but they simply aren't OP in the same fashion as they are in 25-man where they can fully benefit from uncapped DStar, etc - and in 10-mans, until they are wildly overgeared, their low "burst healing", for lack of a better word, is certainly noticeable when 2-healing particular fights.

Case in point: The currently ProRaiders rank 5 disc priest, Donfarfuzio, played for my guild up until last week. Despite being the rank 5 10-man disc priest, he was routinely beaten in terms of throughput by our shaman on any fight where there was more than 450ish k raid HPS to be done over the course of the fight. There is a certain, rather low, point where disc simply plateaus and cannot provide any more throughput, and this is a far more important deficiency in 10s than in 25s.

[Larynx]

Yes it is.

http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Spec_Scor...00000000111011

No, they're not. It's a dead horse on this forum by now. They have overall less throughput than non-absorb healers and have no response to sustained burst scenarios. Even with absorb sniping, they don't even parse very high relative to other healers in 10m.

[muto]

This is quite simply factually incorrect. Disc are still very strong healers, and certainly still shine during low-damage phases (or on fights like Sha with no damage at all), but they simply aren't OP in the same fashion as they are in 25-man where they can fully benefit from uncapped DStar, etc - and in 10-mans, until they are wildly overgeared, their low "burst healing", for lack of a better word, is certainly noticeable when 2-healing particular fights.

Case in point: The currently ProRaiders rank 5 disc priest, Donfarfuzio, played for my guild up until last week. Despite being the rank 5 10-man disc priest, he was routinely beaten in terms of throughput by our shaman on any fight where there was more than 450ish k raid HPS to be done over the course of the fight. There is a certain, rather low, point where disc simply plateaus and cannot provide any more throughput, and this is a far more important deficiency in 10s than in 25s.

You do realize that Disc is a preemptive healer right? I'm just saying. Ofc they don't have the burst that a Shaman does. They are still OP in 10 man though, being able to be a competitive healer and do decent dps when enrages matter. All healers have their pros and cons.

[babylon]

You do realize that Disc is a preemptive healer right? I'm just saying. Ofc they don't have the burst that a Shaman does. They are still OP in 10 man though, being able to be a competitive healer and do decent dps when enrages matter. All healers have their pros and cons.

soooo.... all healers are OP or what?

imo it would be more efficient to have holy+disc combo, with low disc overhealing eol might actually have a chance to shine; with mitigation from disc and strong healing up from holy youd be fine with 2 healers (=extra spot for dps >> 0.5discdps) on most of the fights

[Deleted]

You do realize that Disc is a preemptive healer right? I'm just saying. Ofc they don't have the burst that a Shaman does. They are still OP in 10 man though, being able to be a competitive healer and do decent dps when enrages matter. All healers have their pros and cons.

Right. Disc is a pre-emptive healer but struggles entirely when burst healing is required which is what is being discussed here. Throw two disc priests together and those burst phases aren't going to be fun. Once people are health depleted, it is horrible to try and pull them back up.

I would happily admit if discipline was OP in 10 mans, but the issue is in 25 man due to uncapped L90 talents and DA.

[muto]

Right. Disc is a pre-emptive healer but struggles entirely when burst healing is required which is what is being discussed here. Throw two disc priests together and those burst phases aren't going to be fun. Once people are health depleted, it is horrible to try and pull them back up.

I would happily admit if discipline was OP in 10 mans, but the issue is in 25 man due to uncapped L90 talents and DA.

He said the 3rd healer would be a Shaman or Druid, that covers the damage spikes. Also, glyphed Binding Heal works great too for spiking damage.

[Deleted]

He said the 3rd healer would be a Shaman or Druid, that covers the damage spikes. Also, glyphed Binding Heal works great too for spiking damage.

My mistake, I was running under the assumption of simply using two healers (without a third). Running discipline / discipline / X is still pretty redundant. Either shields are going to be too dominant under light damage conditions, thus negating the shaman or if three healers are required, you will still fall into the trap of burst being difficult to deal with.

My opinion on Glyphed BH is that it is a better choice than many of our other major glyphs but even then, it isn't brilliant. If I recall correctly, you will still get a better eHPS from simply using PW:S.

[muto]

My mistake, I was running under the assumption of simply using two healers (without a third). Running discipline / discipline / X is still pretty redundant. Either shields are going to be too dominant under light damage conditions, thus negating the shaman or if three healers are required, you will still fall into the trap of burst being difficult to deal with.

My opinion on Glyphed BH is that it is a better choice than many of our other major glyphs but even then, it isn't brilliant. If I recall correctly, you will still get a better eHPS from simply using PW:S.

7.29% mana for glyphed Binding Heal
6.1% of mana for PW:S

6.1 x 3 (people) = 18.3% mana and three globals versus 7.29% mana to heal three people, and one global, and Binding Heal can also crit thus also putting a good size Divine Aegis on the target(s).

[Deleted]

7.29% mana for glyphed Binding Heal
6.1% of mana for PW:S

6.1 x 3 (people) = 18.3% mana and three globals versus 7.29% mana to heal three people, and one global, and Binding Heal can also crit thus also putting a good size Divine Aegis on the target(s).

PW:S can also crit, no? I'm also discussing HPS, not HPM so the amount of mana consumed is irrelevant to the discussion. Binding Heal has its place, namely if you need to pull yourself back up so that you don't accidentally nerf your Atonement.

Now, I'll admit to not having done the maths behind this (it is something of a pain to compare a spell that can easily overheal and one which cannot) and instead I'm speaking from experience but I'd happily scribble some numbers out if desired.

[Trix]

I would hate to raid with another Disc Priest, so no.

[PosPosPos]

This is quite simply factually incorrect. Disc are still very strong healers, and certainly still shine during low-damage phases (or on fights like Sha with no damage at all), but they simply aren't OP in the same fashion as they are in 25-man where they can fully benefit from uncapped DStar, etc - and in 10-mans, until they are wildly overgeared, their low "burst healing", for lack of a better word, is certainly noticeable when 2-healing particular fights.

Case in point: The currently ProRaiders rank 5 disc priest, Donfarfuzio, played for my guild up until last week. Despite being the rank 5 10-man disc priest, he was routinely beaten in terms of throughput by our shaman on any fight where there was more than 450ish k raid HPS to be done over the course of the fight. There is a certain, rather low, point where disc simply plateaus and cannot provide any more throughput, and this is a far more important deficiency in 10s than in 25s.

I can assure you, if said Disc Priests completely dropped Atonement except to generate Evangelism stacks and went pure healing with PoH/PoM/PW:S, their HPS can keep up with non-shield healers like Shaman and Druid.

Thing is, there's no point in doing so except for pointless ranks, so most, if not all Disc priests let other healers pick up the slack in 10 mans and focus on dpsing a bit more.

And in 10 mans, the healing demand is generally more than satisfied by 1 healer in most cases. The other (2) healer(s) is (are) just simply there for backup and support.

- - - Updated - - -

I would hate to raid with another Disc Priest, so no.

I like to raid with another disc priest, because I like to just spam 100% atonement throughout the fight and twist the arm of the other disc priest to do the bulk of the boring pure healing.

[Aqua]

I've done it. However it will not be optimal, you need to communicate flawlessly so you know where you're covering ground and try not to fight each other over who's healing what.

I would suggest for peace of mind that one of you draw a short straw and go holy. But it's doable. Since that's why you asked.

[Franklyn]

make one go holy?

[Primernova]

Having two Discs is fine in 10 man.

Weakened soul doesn't last nearly as long as it seems to.

Two priests can bubble a raid much more efficiently than one.

Both can PoM/PoH/Renew spam to cover any holes.

I haven't played this game in a while, but I can't imagine those fundamentals have changed much.

[Deleted]

I can assure you, if said Disc Priests completely dropped Atonement except to generate Evangelism stacks and went pure healing with PoH/PoM/PW:S, their HPS can keep up with non-shield healers like Shaman and Druid.

Blatantly false. Resto druid reju spam + passive free mushroom efflorescense is already 50-100k hps more than what disc priest can deliver with pom/poh/pws. And this is not counting myriad of cd's and extra abilities druid can use over that.

[ripponesan]

No matter of class, do not add a fourth healer to a ten man raid. As you should try to two-heal every fight. This would mean 50% of healers on the bench. In avarage lets say 40% cause you probabaly cant just two-heal every fight right from the getgo.

[PosPosPos]

Blatantly false. Resto druid reju spam + passive free mushroom efflorescense is already 50-100k hps more than what disc priest can deliver with pom/poh/pws.

Then it suffices to say you obviously don't know how much PoM and PoH heals for.

And this is not counting myriad of cd's and extra abilities druid can use over that.

Spirit Shell and AA is more than sufficient to keep up with Tranq, NV and whatever else a druid can run.

[Quenden]

You'll be fine with two discs in 10s, especially if three healing. The added atonement DPS should be helpful in beating any enrage timers. I'm assuming you aren't pushing heavy progression, but the only issues you're really run into here would be on the later heroics anyway. The first handful of them are pretty easy to handle.

[Deleted]

Then it suffices to say you obviously don't know how much PoM and PoH heals for.



Spirit Shell and AA is more than sufficient to keep up with Tranq, NV and whatever else a druid can run.

Would performance on a fight such as Malkorok, where healers can effectively go all out on HPS, be a good indicator of top end output of discipline against restoration or other specs?

If so, it certainly doesn't look like disc can compete on maximum throughput against other healers.

(http://www.worldoflogs.com/rankings/...korok/10H/hps/

http://www.worldoflogs.com/rankings/...korok/25H/hps/)

The "strength" of disc lies in being able to negate trivial healing of non-absorption classes, not large sustained throughput.

[PosPosPos]

Would performance on a fight such as Malkorok, where healers can effectively go all out on HPS, be a good indicator of top end output of discipline against restoration or other specs?

If so, it certainly doesn't look like disc can compete on maximum throughput against other healers.

(http://www.worldoflogs.com/rankings/...korok/10H/hps/

http://www.worldoflogs.com/rankings/...korok/25H/hps/)

The "strength" of disc lies in being able to negate trivial healing of non-absorption classes, not large sustained throughput.

Look at the top ranked Disc priests and their spell priority. Definitely doesn't tell me they are eschewing atonement for PoH casts like I outlined earlier. Also, shields are notoriously known for being misrepresented on Malkorok.