Marked for Death feels awesome.

[Kagejin]

We all know that for basically all raid encounters (except MAYBE Spoils?), rogues take Anticipation for the bottom talent. It's just hands down more dps than the others.

But I'll be damned if I can be separated from Marked for Death.

For questing it's awesome. For scenarios it's awesome. For 5mans it's awesome. And frankly it was awesome for many of the Brawler's Guild fights. In these situations, sustained dps isn't even really a thing due to fight length. The only time Anticipation seems to shine is in raiding, and maybe if used well in PVP for back-to-back 5 combo bursts.

But Anticipation doesn't seem exciting, does it? It is just an efficiency thing. It doesn't feel like I'm doing more dps... I just know that I have to take it and I will do more dps.

I stopped playing my rogue in early MoP because energy regen felt way too sluggish... I daresay it was thanks to MfD that I came back.

Marked for Death FEELS awesome. It makes me FEEL like the "assassination" rogue. When I hit my MfD button it just FEELS like I'm about to rock my enemy.

I want Blizzard to hear that. Rogue talents will no doubt be looked at and changed a lot for Warlords. I don't care if 99% of rogues take Anticipation because it is the mandatory raid talent. That is OK! I'm not in a serious raiding environment for that to matter, and I am happy that MfD exists in this case. I'll take Anticipation if I need to raid seriously. But for everything else, there is MfD.

Anyone else loving a talent that maybe isn't ideal for the almighty raiding setup?

[Deleted]

Well MfD as it is now has alot of using for pretty much anything except raiding. Raiding required a relatively high time on 1 single target and MfD looses alot since you can't benefit from that reduced cd of it if the target dies fast. So overall you can take whatever talent you want but anticipation work well with mut rogue also just not that much outside raiding.

[Firebert]

Anyone else loving a talent that maybe isn't ideal for the almighty raiding setup?

I know this is the Rogue subclass forums, but I'm Frost Bombing on my Arc mage simply because it's easier to use and just has huge numbers.

[Deleted]

Fair dues to the OP.

For questing it's awesome. For scenarios it's awesome. For 5mans it's awesome. And frankly it was awesome for many of the Brawler's Guild fights. In these situations, sustained dps isn't even really a thing due to fight length.

Add in Proving Grounds and you've got pretty much all non-raiding PvE content covered, and even there MfD is the go-to talent.

A+++ talent would spec again

[ripponesan]

While i can follow you, at least i think so, i fail to see he Point you are trying to make.
Help me here.

[Raqubor]

While i can follow you, at least i think so, i fail to see he Point you are trying to make.
Help me here.

I think he's just telling us he loves the talent, it's very versatile and useful in many different situation and wants it to stay the way it is going in to WoD.

This is also my own opinion. I roll with it in SoO because there are just so many cleave fights and trash on bosses it's just better (for me).

[Datenshi]

yeah i have marked for death a lot aswell and use it for the things already mentioned earlier in this thread

also for the bosses i use it on in SoO; Galakras (if i stay down which is almost never xD), Nazgrim and spoils so basically 3 bosses where it's quite good but for the rest anticipation is better normally

ps. if i am not mistaken then taking MfD for combat is actually better then anticipation if played near perfect xD

[Deleted]

It's going to be god mode for leveling if they don't shift around that tier

[rogueMatthias]

Yeah I always have MfD and BoS on fornearly any non-raid related activity.

Kinda wish Anticipation was baseline and there was another more aggressive and non-passive talent in the final tier.

[Coldkil]

Anticipation is so good that it should definitely be baseline. Until that moment, doesn't matter what they put up but it will be always the default choice because of the damage bonus and its efficiency in any environment (apart if the decide to give us an even bigger nuke).

This said, MfD is the best talent hands down in our tree - strong, feels rogue-ish and the cd reset mechanic makes it appealing for many situations. It feels active.

[Rorke]

I agree Marked For Death is probably the best talent in the game. It's not only good for geared Rogues, but it helps against the energy burden that fresh 90 Rogues have to face. It's similar to DK's Plague Leech in that perspective.

It also just feels and sounds bad ass.

[Kael]

It's going to be god mode for leveling if they don't shift around that tier

Right? But I also have to agree that it's seriously the most epic thing we've gotten out of the talent tree to actually use. Feels like something pulled out of Dragon Age or another RPG with rogues that sometimes act like rogues. I found the assassinate button!

[Deleted]

Right? But I also have to agree that it's seriously the most epic thing we've gotten out of the talent tree to actually use. Feels like something pulled out of Dragon Age or another RPG with rogues that sometimes act like rogues. I found the assassinate button!

Yeah it is when looking at it and in the really rare times it's worth using like Horridon progress. But as someone who doesn't really play outside of raiding it doesn't get any limelight at all. I think i would be a bit more attached if anticipation wasn't kicking its' ass every tier yet.

I'm a big fan of CD resets to be honest. Some other games do it really well but there isn't anything similar in WoW when you think about it. I guess there's always repercussions due to PvP etc, but it's very very fun to use and fits the class well.

[shadowboy]

For combat at the least, MfD is actually competitive with (or even slightly better than) anticipation.

[Verain]

I was shocked that MfD was actually implemented. I suspect it will just result in milquetoast finishers in the long term, but maybe I'm being pessimistic. Thus far it has been great.


Anticipation doesn't really need to be baseline. What should be baseline is a 6th combo point, with finishers still only going up to 5. At 5 combo points, you run into these issues:

1- If you press sinister strike at 4 CPs, you can proc an extra CP. This is lost without a 6th combo point place. It is not optimal to finish at 4 to avoid this normally.
2- If you press mutilate at 3 CPs, you can proc an extra CP. This is lost without a 6th combo point place. It is not optimal to finish at 3 to avoid this normally.
3- If you press mutilate at 4 CPs, you will lose your second CP, and may lose a third. This is lost without anticipation as implemented. It is not optimal to press mutilate at 4 CPs normally because of the effect of the lost combo points: you finish at 4 without anticipation.
4- When you hit your fifth combo point as sub from a finisher, you could lose a combo point if HAT procs during the global cooldown. HAT is available every two seconds. This is not really random and can be played around, but is not as easy as if you had a buffer.


A 6th combo point would pretty much fix everything. Anticipation delivering 6-10 as some kind of crazy buff instead of an actual thing is odd.



I'm finding Marked for Death very strong as combat. It seems to simplify the rotation, give me a bit of burst, and give me extra cooldowns. This is despite it sometimes not even being worth the full five CPs with ruthlessness around.

For instance: To get the most out of anticipation, you are almost always going pretty deep into anticipation charges in order to be playing at a better bandit's guile color. With marked for death, you don't worry about this, with the talent giving you better cooldowns and a free red eviscerate every minute-ish.

Feels like something pulled out of Dragon Age or another RPG with rogues that sometimes act like rogues.

Yea. It's really out of line with whatever "Fetish Calculator" class they built. It actually feels like a rogue button, more than most other things besides vanish and prep. It's really nice with adds, the rest of our kit is so ludicrously bad at them that it becomes very pleasing to see this.

Here's the buffs it needs:

1)- It needs to apply revealing strike debuff at normal duration when pressed.
2)- MANY more mobs need to actually die. Raid devs should test with this talent. Many mobs despawn or change into another form as some internal hack, and this has deleterious effects on rogues. For instance, you'll notice on Spoils, the ghost pandas don't give you mark back, but everything else does. This is broken (you do not get your mark back after killing mobs on) on: ToT boss 3 (bosses intended to die but no mark back), ToT boss 4 (shells do not actually die), ToT boss 5 (heads do not actually die), ToT boss 9 (nothing dies), ToT boss 10 (nothing dies), ToT boss 11 (bosses intended to die but no mark back), SoO boss 2 (bosses intended to die but no mark back), SoO boss 10 (ghost pandas don't die), SoO boss 11 (some mobs don't die, I'm not sure which), SoO boss 12 (bosses intended to die but don't).

[Demeia]

Anticipation is so good that it should definitely be baseline. Until that moment, doesn't matter what they put up but it will be always the default choice because of the damage bonus and its efficiency in any environment (apart if the decide to give us an even bigger nuke).

This said, MfD is the best talent hands down in our tree - strong, feels rogue-ish and the cd reset mechanic makes it appealing for many situations. It feels active.

I've been in love with MfD since it first appeared and will happily shout out its praises for all to hear. It would have made level 88-90 much more bearable.

As for Anticipation, it adds considerable depth and character to rogues and should absolutely be baseline. Hard to believe they could come up with a talent as worthwhile as MfD though.

[Coldkil]

Anticipation doesn't really need to be baseline. What should be baseline is a 6th combo point, with finishers still only going up to 5. At 5 combo points, you run into these issues:

1- If you press sinister strike at 4 CPs, you can proc an extra CP. This is lost without a 6th combo point place. It is not optimal to finish at 4 to avoid this normally.
2- If you press mutilate at 3 CPs, you can proc an extra CP. This is lost without a 6th combo point place. It is not optimal to finish at 3 to avoid this normally.
3- If you press mutilate at 4 CPs, you will lose your second CP, and may lose a third. This is lost without anticipation as implemented. It is not optimal to press mutilate at 4 CPs normally because of the effect of the lost combo points: you finish at 4 without anticipation.
4- When you hit your fifth combo point as sub from a finisher, you could lose a combo point if HAT procs during the global cooldown. HAT is available every two seconds. This is not really random and can be played around, but is not as easy as if you had a buffer.


A 6th combo point would pretty much fix everything. Anticipation delivering 6-10 as some kind of crazy buff instead of an actual thing is odd.

I find your solution definitely interesting - with that, i'd remove Anticipation completely.

The core idea in my head is that spells that are too strong/useful become innately mandatory (our goal is to maximize our performance). And those kind of spells need to be baseline or completely removed, there's no other way; it's what happened with AR glyph. I'm not against or pro Anticipation baseline, but if they want to keep it a talent, they need to put in its tier comparable damage sources otherwise it's a no brainer.

[jtstormrage]

In raid encounters where there are adds that die (Horridon, Galakras, Spoils) this ability is amazing, especially for Combat as it reduces cds by 10 secs every time and add dies.

[Raqubor]

I hope secret blizz spys read this thread and see how much we <3 MfD and make either this baseline or anticipation, though Verain's idea is spot on. #sixcombopointsforrouges

[Carp The Fish]

#sixcombopoints should be a thing.

Once you start getting past a 570 ilvl, the choice between Anticipation and MfD is REALLY a choice (to be more specific, I mean the two give about the same DPS once you hit about 17k Haste). I've been choosing MfD over Anticipation as Combat for weeks now because it feels better to me and (like others have noted) it feels powerful.