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  1. #1

    Going resto for H Thok

    My main spec is guardian, so I haven't really played resto ever. However, I'm going resto for H Thok (10m) as only one tank is needed. I would love if someone could go through some logs and tell me what I could improve on.

    worldoflogs.com/reports/lb88bdny18afzr2d (Can't post links)

    My main tactic right now is to just cover the raid in rejuv, using WG pretty much on CD and with SotF when possible. I know my Harmony uptime needs some improvement - that's just something I need to watch a little more carefully. My Lifebloom tends to fall off of the tank a lot due to just spamming rejuv and WG, but I try to have as much uptime on that as possible. In some of the later pulls I was using Bloom more often, but all of our pulls the other resto druid's efflo did a lot more healing than mine - is there a reason for that? She's running 2xthroughput trinkets while I'm running 1xthrougput and 1xmana regen if that matters.

    For 10m, should I be using the WG glyph, or would the lower CD be better? I'm using the Nature's Vigil talent, but I tend to just forget about it - any good ability to macro it to? (Like Berserk/Incarnation for Guardian). We don't have a paladin that can reliably show up, so no BoP for tranq. Is it a good idea to use SotF for tranq, or is that just wasted overhealing?

    The healers we're currently running are 2xResto Druid and 1xMistweaver.

    My armoury is us.battle.net/wow/en/character/sargeras/Lyfa/advanced (again, can't post links) - though I think I'm logged out in my guardian gear. I'll log on when I next get the chance to.

  2. #2
    I just swapped over to my resto gear. I can't reach the 13k breakpoint without dropping more spirit than I'm comfortable with. I like staying around 15k, but it's been suggested that I drop to around 13k. To reach the 13k haste breakpoint I need to drop to around 10k spirit. After the first p1 I'm down to around 25-30% mana, but I do get back up to around 50-60%. We haven't consistently reached the second p1 yet, but that's mostly just due to a lack of a set CD rotation (which is hard to do without a pally). I do have both WeakAuras and TellMeWhen, with WG, Swiftmend, Tranq, Iron Bark, and 2pc. I've also got one set up for Clearcasting, Harmony, Lucidity, and SotF. This is all using TMW, so if you have any really good WAs, please do share.

    I don't have my 4pc, and probably won't get it either. I've never actually used Incarnation as resto, what exactly changes? I know I can put Lifebloom on multiple people, but other than that I don't know.

  3. #3
    Is there a reason to go for 3k over 6k? Just more mastery?

  4. #4
    Logs:
    Harmony uptime is way too low. It doesn't matter how well you do anything else if your Harmony uptime is below 95%, because your spells won't heal for much anyway. Fixing that should be your main priority. Lifebloom uptime is also low. Cooldown use is... almost nonexistent? You're talented for Nature's Vigil but only used it three times in 20 attempts. Same thing with Ironbark (2 uses) and Barkskin (zero uses while healing). Both should be used essentially on cooldown while stacked.

    Armory:
    As Waldor22 said, get rid of some haste. You want to be at 3043 or 13163, and the lower number is probably better with your current gear (few pieces with haste, no PPP trinket). The other breakpoints aren't really worth it, as the Swift Rejuvenation passive means your main spell is at the 1.0 second GCD cap already. Spirit seems okay, though it's on the high side considering you're using a spirit trinket and the legendary meta. Glyphs are good. Talents are good (I personally swear by Displacer Beast, but it doesn't matter on Thok). Speed enchant on boots is unnecessary, especially when specced for Feline Swiftness.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lyfa View Post
    Is there a reason to go for 3k over 6k? Just more mastery?
    The 3600 mastery will provide a bigger throughput increase than the 3600 haste would. There are a couple of theorycrafting threads from earlier this tier you could look up if you're curious about the specifics.
    Last edited by Alltat; 2014-01-14 at 04:06 PM.
    Diplomacy is just war by other means.

  5. #5
    Ouch, three throughput and no Paladins; no Devotion Aura or Hand of Protection makes it hard to cast Tranquility at the higher stack levels. Best you'll be able to hope for is a SotF Tranq that only gets 2/3 or so of its channel at low Haste values though I don't know if the spell lockout is worth the throughput from Tranq.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Trubo View Post
    Ouch, three throughput and no Paladins; no Devotion Aura or Hand of Protection makes it hard to cast Tranquility at the higher stack levels. Best you'll be able to hope for is a SotF Tranq that only gets 2/3 or so of its channel at low Haste values though I don't know if the spell lockout is worth the throughput from Tranq.
    I'm pretty sure a SotF + Tranq is worth it. A full tranq gives me around 17M healing (17M/12*5 is still around 7M healing, even if you get only 2/3, would you do a few millions of healing during the 2 seconds lockout?)

    Best throughput would be keeping SotF and using it with wild growth once every 2 WG during high dmg (SM + WG, WG, SM + Rejuv, WG, SM + WG)

    I usually don't bloom my mushrooms until most of the raid is really low or I'm sure someone is going to die, but they are a lot stronger in 10man than 25man.

    Don't overestimate spirit either, 1000 spirit is a bit more than 2 rejuvs every 3 minutes. With the legendary gem and a regen trinket, I doubt you need that much spirit (I'm at 11500 right now, was at 12500 not too long ago), might be better for you to go for the 13k haste cap.

    Edit:HotW is also better than NV (NV CAN output it if you use it on cooldown but it usually isn't needed on cooldown, HotW will give you a better throughput during the fight).

    Forgot to mention that tranq value is while using HotW and berserking.
    Last edited by Tartuk; 2014-01-14 at 09:21 PM.

  7. #7
    More Thok progression tonight - I dropped down to 3k haste and have just under 14k mastery (39.16% unbuffed). Overall I feel like I did better as I was mostly keeping up with our two regular healers, sometimes even surpassing them.

    Logs if anyone is interested.
    warcraftlogs.com/reports/HtcrZXngd97C8V2x/

    I think I'll try using HotW tomorrow and use it during the second p1. I really don't want to switch to using Incarnation, but I think I might try a few pulls with that as well. I'm also down to 13666 spirit from 15k, and I had really low mana going into our third p1, but I think that's something I screwed up in our second p2.
    Last edited by Lyfa; 2014-01-15 at 11:59 AM.

  8. #8
    A few issues I see

    Firstly...Nature's Swiftness....you don't seem to use it. Free, Instant Healing Touches, on a shortish CD
    Secondly. Piss your regrowth glyph off. You only cast regrowth 4 times in a 4 minute attempt (12th attempt). Replace it with the HT glyph.
    Clear casts. You had 12, but only used Healing Touch & Regrowth 8 times, which means you let 2 go to waste. When you have a clear cast, either use a HT on the Tank if they need a top up, or un glyphed Regrowth on the tank if they needs moderate heals, for the added HoT. This will also refresh your harmony, and your LB.
    Keep in mind that with 3 stacks of Sagemender, your HT is faster than a Regrowth, and does considerably more healing.
    With the HT glyph, upi will also get more Swiftmends, which is another way to refresh your harmony.
    LB on tanks needs to be close to 100%. work on this.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Lyfa View Post
    Logs if anyone is interested.
    warcraftlogs.com/reports/HtcrZXngd97C8V2x/
    Harmony uptime is much improved, but still a bit low. Cooldown use is better but also still low. Nature's Vigil is 90 seconds, Ironbark 60s, Barkskin 45s. All three are free and off the GCD so use them early and often. Same thing with Innervate: use it earlier and you'll be able to use it again sooner.

    Quote Originally Posted by Locksrus View Post
    Secondly. Piss your regrowth glyph off. You only cast regrowth 4 times in a 4 minute attempt (12th attempt). Replace it with the HT glyph.
    I disagree. I find that the HT glyph is useless. The cooldown reduction very rarely makes a difference and you don't cast HT often enough even with Sage Mender for it to be noticeable. It's very random if you benefit from it at all or not, while Regrowth does the opposite by making a spell you actually cast a lot less random (going from "crits often" to "always crits").
    Last edited by Alltat; 2014-01-15 at 09:43 AM.
    Diplomacy is just war by other means.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Alltat View Post
    Speed enchant on boots is unnecessary, especially when specced for Feline Swiftness.
    Why would you say that? The enchant stacks with Feline Swiftness, and you don't use Displacer Beast every time you move.
    IMO more movement speed is always good (some movement intensive fights coming up after Thok hc), and it only costs 35 secondary stats. No reason not to take Pandaren's Step.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Locksrus View Post
    Firstly...Nature's Swiftness....you don't seem to use it. Free, Instant Healing Touches, on a shortish CD
    I tend to find myself with very few free GCDs during P1s, and Healing Touch takes a full GCD for a single heal when I'd much rather be AoE healing.
    Clear casts. You had 12, but only used Healing Touch & Regrowth 8 times, which means you let 2 go to waste.
    I really don't have time to cast regrowth during P1, as the cast is just too long to use while keeping rejuvs rolling.
    LB on tanks needs to be close to 100%. work on this.
    I try to keep it on the tank during P1, but P2 it falls off sometimes due to range, sometimes due to kiting, sometimes due to other things.
    Quote Originally Posted by Alltat View Post
    Harmony uptime is much improved, but still a bit low. Cooldown use is better but also still low. Nature's Vigil is 90 seconds, Ironbark 60s, Barkskin 45s. All three are free and off the GCD so use them early and often.
    I'm not really having 100% uptime during the kite phases, especially after the add dies or if I'm kiting. I'm trying to not use NV, Ironbark, Barkskin, etc. right away, usually saving them until around the 6+ stack mark.

    Thanks for taking the time to look at my logs. It's really helped and we've been getting farther on most pulls.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Thalur View Post
    Why would you say that? The enchant stacks with Feline Swiftness, and you don't use Displacer Beast every time you move.
    Because you're a druid, so you already have both Dash and Stampeding Roar and can cast virtually all your spells while moving. There should not ever be any point in any fight where you moving a few percent faster makes any difference. If you need to move a short distance quickly, use Displacer Beast. If you need to move a long distance quickly, use Dash or SR. If you need to move quickly more often than the cooldowns of those abilities allows for, you're doing something very wrong. That extra movement speed is never going to make any difference. Running faster is nice, but it's not useful.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lyfa View Post
    I really don't have time to cast regrowth during P1, as the cast is just too long to use while keeping rejuvs rolling.
    It's worth using just to keep Lifebloom up. Spending a GCD on casting a Regrowth and refreshing a full stack of Lifebloom should do more healing than spending that GCD on casting Rejuvenation. It's also cheaper, as Lifebloom will usually provide the Clearcasting procs you'll use to refresh it, meaning you get that healing mostly free. Get the full LB stack up before the pull and then just keep it rolling the whole fight. Move it to yourself if your target is out of range, and you can move it back again later. Takes fewer GCDs than reapplying the whole stack again later, plus you get free healing on yourself for the duration.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lyfa View Post
    I'm not really having 100% uptime during the kite phases, especially after the add dies or if I'm kiting. I'm trying to not use NV, Ironbark, Barkskin, etc. right away, usually saving them until around the 6+ stack mark.
    You could probably use Ironbark and Barkskin right away and when the stacks get higher. Saves a little bit of mana and makes your life a little easier a little longer. They're free and off the GCD, so you lose nothing by using the spells a lot.
    Diplomacy is just war by other means.

  13. #13
    I didn't review your logs, but this is what I do (for normal, my raid is nowhere near ready for heroic):

    Start off before the pull by dropping your shroom in melee and filling it up as fast as possible.
    Pre-Hot the tank with SoTF Lifebloom (cast it just before the pull)
    Pre-Hot the raid with Rejuv's

    After the pull:
    Move shroom into the stack point (again not sure how it works in heroic)
    Keep rejuv and lifebloom refreshed on the active tank, use ironbark on the tank for the pull, it should be ready again at 2+ stacks on the tank - use on CD after that
    Rejuv Blanket the raid.
    First screech Genesis + Rejuv blanket more
    2nd Screech SoTF+WG (use WG on CD)
    3rd screech Pop your mushroom, rejuv blanket, after the 2nd rejuv refresh, drop shroom again
    4th screech Genesis - Pop NV
    Repeat above for stacks 5-30.

    Since you have no way of cheesing the interrupt - You should pop NV and use tranq between the 3rd and 4th screech (the channel is 3.3 seconds or something like that with SoTF, 8 second cast without - make sure your last channel tick goes off just before the screech ends - if you get locked for 2 GCD's its fine, your hots are doing all the work anyway).

    For transition phases, place your 3 stacked LB on the person being fixated and ensure they are dispelled. You should drop your mushroom under the tank, and use Soothe on the add when he enrages.

    We go Poison -> Frost -> Fire.
    For poison, dispel when you can
    For frost (or w/e cage you do after poison), tranq while your group is getting stacked back up before the first screech - that poison is a bitch, and tranq should be off CD once you get to the frost (or 2nd) cage. This gives your raid time to get stacked and get the last of the dispels off without pushing the boss immediately into blood frenzy on the first screech.
    For Fire, keep the mushroom under your tank - pop it when he gets low.

    For dispels - just dispel what you can on CD, every 4th cast should be a dispel, its rough, but it is doable.
    Use Sagemender (2pT16) procs on the tank to refresh LB.

    For mana - you should be going OOM during the stack phases, and using recooping that mana during blood frenzy. Innervate when the boss goes into blood frenzy the first time, and on CD after that. During blood frenzy, keep LB up on the person being fixated, shroom under the tank (or under the ranged if the tank isnt close enough to the boss for the ranged to reach him), soothe the add when he enrages, and rejuv anyone that gets low and let your mana regen. Let your HoTs do the work for you, no need to spam heals here. The only damage the raid should be taking at this point is the AoE thok does, the tank with the add, or the DoT.

    Even 3 healing on 10m normal I average about 350-500k during screech phases using these tactics and usually end the fight with about 200k overall.

    Edit: Forgot to mention - for talents/glyphs, go with Displacer Beast over Feline Swiftness. You should never be in a position to where the boss is going to eat you if you get fixated. You have Dash, savage roar, and the speed increase from cat form. Using DB you have a lot more flexibility and are able to reach people quicker should they be out of range and need a heal before your other healers can get there. If you happen to get fixated, you can also blink away at the last second if he targets you with a high amount of stacks. I use DB on every fight.

    For glyphs, not sure what you have - but you should be using RG glyph, Efflo glyph and WG glyph. I don't use the sprouting mushroom glyph, but that's player preference.

  14. #14
    Why so much hate for the HT glyph?
    Who uses regrowth more than they use HT? No one
    HT has way too many benifits to simply say its shit, dont use it
    a) Its cheaper than Regrowth
    b) It reduces your cd on Swiftmend if you glyph it
    c) You are going to be using it with Sagemender procs anyway. 3 stacks of sagemender makes HT faster than Regrowth & and almost half the mana cost
    d) A HT crit will heal for almost 400k, while a 100% crit chance Regrowth heals for maybe 50k, which is about the same as a non crit HT (look at the numbers, WOL figures, not mine)

    Show some love to HT

  15. #15
    I find much of the advice and information in this thread highly questionable. From 50k Regrowth crits to putting your mushroom on the tank to not using a run speed enchant because of 35 secondary stats to not glyphing Wild Growth on a stacked raw throughput fight to arguing for the HT glyph by saying it reduces the CD of SM when it reduces the CD of NS to suggesting SotF+HotW are better on a fight that's defined by 90-180 sec cylces.

    A comp without any paladins is pretty brutal on this fight -- especially when you also don't have the raid CDs of a Shaman or Disc Priest. The idea of being able to squeeze in SotF+Tranq is the only thing that makes SotF remotely attractive, but even that sounds underwhelming.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Whydrood View Post
    First screech Genesis + Rejuv blanket more
    I don't see any point in using Genesis at all on this fight. For the early screeches you have lots of time to let your Rejuvs tick, so the only point in casting Genesis is to heal people up before other healers to look good on meters. For the later screeches you'll be struggling to produce enough sustained HPS, and casting Genesis is a HPS loss. If you plan to do X ticks then it might be useful to cast Genesis on the tick right before that, but otherwise Genesis is just a HPS loss.

    Other than that, I agree with everything said.

    Quote Originally Posted by Locksrus View Post
    Why so much hate for the HT glyph?
    Who uses regrowth more than they use HT?
    Because the Regrowth glyph does something useful, while the Healing Touch glyph doesn't. You gain nothing from that cooldown reduction anyway, while making Regrowth always crit makes it a much more reliable emergency heal.

    Quote Originally Posted by Locksrus View Post
    d) A HT crit will heal for almost 400k, while a 100% crit chance Regrowth heals for maybe 50k, which is about the same as a non crit HT (look at the numbers, WOL figures, not mine)
    Please check those numbers again. Check the actual log data to make sure you're looking at total healing done, not just effective (non-over) healing done. Because looking at logs from this week, I'm seeing 180k Regrowth crits (not counting the +30% from Living Seed) and non-crit Healing Touches in the 200k range. So a crit Regrowth heals for more than a non-crit Healing Touch, meaning that if you want to reliably deliver healing on a target, glyphed Regrowth is better than anything else you've got. Healing Touch has the potential to heal for more if it happens to crit, but it's rare enough that you can't count on it in an emergency.
    Diplomacy is just war by other means.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Alltat View Post
    I don't see any point in using Genesis at all on this fight. For the early screeches you have lots of time to let your Rejuvs tick, so the only point in casting Genesis is to heal people up before other healers to look good on meters. For the later screeches you'll be struggling to produce enough sustained HPS, and casting Genesis is a HPS loss. If you plan to do X ticks then it might be useful to cast Genesis on the tick right before that, but otherwise Genesis is just a HPS loss.

    Other than that, I agree with everything said.
    The point in casting Genesis is because you can heal people up before other healers, not to look good on the meters - but because druids are the only class capable of doing this effectively without blowing a major healing cool down. The point is to get everyone topped off before the boss pushes and before the next screech (which depending on how far you push him means you likely have less than a second to get people topped off). Genesis with Nature's Vigil up is even more effective because you can cast less rejuvs and let NV do the cleave healing. Genesis also allows you to grow your mushroom on a fight where over healing is a rarity, meaning you can use your mushroom's bloom more often.

  18. #18
    Im surpriesed no one has just told me to shut up, considering I'm a Warlock

  19. #19
    Hey all.. I am in EXACTLY the same boat as this guy. (Guardian druid, healing this fight now.)
    My armory (will try to keep//get into resto gear till at least friday night, ('merica time)
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...nalis/advanced


    Couple quick questions;
    Soul of the forest versus Force of Nature;
    Im pretty good with SOTF, swiftmending right before wild growths, without delaying the WG, etc..
    BUT, I've heard that the FON aren't interupted at all by the Thok Screeches, and offer some good general throughput...
    HOWEVER, Im kinda stuck around the 6652 haste bp (actually stuck at 7008 haste), and I cannot get below 6000 ish, and I can't get above to the 13,xxx haste one either (ALOT of spirit/mastery that our mistweaver doesn't want, or spirit/crit gear that he already got)... so I figured that using 6652 gets me another tick on my non-SOTF wildgrowths, and I have the..6000~ BP for the SOTF WGs.
    --So.. what do I do?

    We have 2 paladins, and I am getting a BoP on 7 to tranq. I've found that I want to AVOID using a SOTF proc on tranq as it ends WAY to fast.. and the consistent longer heal is better.
    --Is this correct?

    Hotw vs Natures Vigil
    I have both macro'd to tranq atm.. We would sometimes have a death during my tranq if it was only NV.. versus the HOTW buff seemed to make or break it (we haven't survived an ice phase past 1-3 screeches yet)
    --Are these 2 close enough that I can stick with HOTW? or should I force myself to switch over to NV? we have the bats down NP.

  20. #20
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaydenkor View Post
    Hey all.. I am in EXACTLY the same boat as this guy. (Guardian druid, healing this fight now.)
    My armory (will try to keep//get into resto gear till at least friday night, ('merica time)
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...nalis/advanced


    Couple quick questions;
    Soul of the forest versus Force of Nature;
    Im pretty good with SOTF, swiftmending right before wild growths, without delaying the WG, etc..
    BUT, I've heard that the FON aren't interupted at all by the Thok Screeches, and offer some good general throughput...
    HOWEVER, Im kinda stuck around the 6652 haste bp (actually stuck at 7008 haste), and I cannot get below 6000 ish, and I can't get above to the 13,xxx haste one either (ALOT of spirit/mastery that our mistweaver doesn't want, or spirit/crit gear that he already got)... so I figured that using 6652 gets me another tick on my non-SOTF wildgrowths, and I have the..6000~ BP for the SOTF WGs.
    --So.. what do I do?

    We have 2 paladins, and I am getting a BoP on 7 to tranq. I've found that I want to AVOID using a SOTF proc on tranq as it ends WAY to fast.. and the consistent longer heal is better.
    --Is this correct?

    Hotw vs Natures Vigil
    I have both macro'd to tranq atm.. We would sometimes have a death during my tranq if it was only NV.. versus the HOTW buff seemed to make or break it (we haven't survived an ice phase past 1-3 screeches yet)
    --Are these 2 close enough that I can stick with HOTW? or should I force myself to switch over to NV? we have the bats down NP.
    After doing a few quick calculations, I'm pretty sure you can get to the 13163 breakpoint. You do need to swap all ur gems to Quick/Energized/Reckless gems and reforge from the highest stat to haste on non haste items though. That's what I'd do.

    EDIT: I think you can reach around ~13032 haste if i'm not too off on my calculations before saccing any socket bonuses so you could obtain the haste cap by foregoing the 60 spirit bonus on ur ring for example. I think it's worth it. You should have "enough" other stats to justify it and sitting on 7k haste is bad.
    Last edited by mmoc868d8cd30e; 2014-01-17 at 01:55 AM.

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