The slippery slope has finally ended.

[Normie]

Do I think it's a bad thing? NO, this will hopefully attract new players, as the idea of playing through XX hours of content before getting to the "real" thing, being the endgame, is very intimidating to a new player, and also a deterrent. Hopefully this implementation will attract more players, and hopefully it won't have the bad effect that some people suspect it will. Personally I think it won't have a major impact (if any) on how the game is played in general.

Players decided that "endgame" was "theonlygamethatmatters" all on their own. Blizzard has simply "made it so," because players had determined that nothing occurring at (max level)-1 was of any consequence any longer.

Leveling is, at this point, a vestigial entertainment in the game.

I would like to agree with people that it's worthwhile, "builds character" (haha so to speak), "pays your dues," "good for you," "helps you learn your class," whatever, but if I said that to you in person you would see me trying not to crack a grin because all of those are completely bullshit now.

People get their brand new max level toons on the PTR and the world doesn't come to an end.

It will be fine.

I will continue leveling characters through that enormous mass of obsolete content, though, because I enjoy it, every so often.

[Lillemus]

Players decided that "endgame" was "theonlygamethatmatters" all on their own. Blizzard has simply "made it so," because players had determined that nothing occurring at (max level)-1 was of any consequence any longer.

Leveling is, at this point, a vestigial entertainment in the game.

I would like to agree with people that it's worthwhile, "builds character" (haha so to speak), "pays your dues," "good for you," "helps you learn your class," whatever, but if I said that to you in person you would see me trying not to crack a grin because all of those are completely bullshit now.

People get their brand new max level toons on the PTR and the world doesn't come to an end.

It will be fine.

I will continue leveling characters through that enormous mass of obsolete content, though, because I enjoy it, every so often.

Well, the place where everyone is, is the place where you want to be in a multiplayer game , for MMOs, that's max level.

But I maintain my argument of time = reward in the MMO-scene, and letting you buy 90 is saving you time! The next step could be that you are allowed to buy crafting mats as that is also merely a time consuming activity without any real content, I'm not saying this will happen, but in the terms of them letting us buy time means that we are at the very beginning of a slippery slope imo, and I hope we won't slip.

- - - Updated - - -

Remember we are living in the "It's only about me generation!" They won't see other wise.

Oh, I forgot, me me me me me me me

[Normie]

Well, the place where everyone is, is the place where you want to be in a multiplayer game , for MMOs, that's max level.

Throughout Wrath, and a little ways into Cataclysm, the majority of players in WoW DID NOT have a max level character.

So, where "most people" were was below level 80.

But since then, for whatever reason, being sub max level has become something of a nuisance soon to be corrected, as opposed to something a character should be for a while.

I don't care that much either way. I don't see that it makes any difference whether you are sitting at level 1 needing to gain levels or sitting at level 100 needing to gain gear.

[Lillemus]

Throughout Wrath, and a little ways into Cataclysm, the majority of players in WoW DID NOT have a max level character.

So, where "most people" were was below level 80.

But since then, for whatever reason, being sub max level has become something of a nuisance soon to be corrected, as opposed to something a character should be for a while.

I don't care that much either way. I don't see that it makes any difference whether you are sitting at level 1 needing to gain levels or sitting at level 100 needing to gain gear.

Having not seen any of the numbers behind your statement I can't really argue for or against it.

But I will argue that there is a difference if you're sitting at level 1 (where if it wasn't for crz there would be almost noone to be found outside of full realms) and level max which is teeming with opportunities to socialise and play in multi sort of way.

[Deadite]

Didn't get past the first two pages of this ridiculous and pointless thread, but GODDAMN are people ignorant.

If you:

-Believe leveling is something that needs to be done, you are wrong.
-Believe that actually leveling teaches people how to play, you are wrong.
-Believe that more max level characters somehow negatively affects you, you are wrong.
-Believe that you are a special snowflake, and you had to walk uphill both ways to Molten Core and so should everyone else, you are wrong.
-Believe that buying a near max (or max during MoP, if it launches) is pretty much Pay-to-Win, you are wrong. (Since when is the goal of WoW to "win" by reaching max level that that's it?)
-Believe that Blizzard should be vilified for making money as a business, through features many players/customers have asked for, you are wrong. And also naive.

If any of that was true they should sell lvl 90's just now with a full set of 540 gear. None of that violates any of your points.

[Pickynerd]

Well DUUUH, obviously what you said would only be relevant if you meant more powerful items. I'm calling you on your bullshit, you're trying to change what you meant here, because you originally meant buying upgrades. What else could you mean? Buying downgrades? Stupid. Buying cosmetic items? Already in game.

You're not fooling anyone here buddy.

- - - Updated - - -

I could really give two fucks about the ability to gain an insta-90. I repeat: I could really give two fucks about the ability to gain an insta-90.

You with me so far?

Okay, now, read this slowly. "Why are they SELLING them? Why not just give them away?"

Next part.

Some day, they maybe selling level 100's - Or even items.

Slipper slope - nothing about P2W, purely about greed and where it may lead to in the future.

My opinion is that it is a necessary evil. I like populated queues, a robust AH and consistent development. Understandably, new subscriber numbers are not high and if market research shows that people feel daunted by the level climb from 1 to 100, they probably won't subscribe.

Do I think this will be good for the quality of the player base? No. Am I forced to play with easily identified boosted individuals? Nope.

In short: It is beneficial for the economy of the game and has no negative impact on me.

Why does it have to be evil? Whether you have hundred 90's or none, they should offer it to the customer to play relevant content, where the mmo actually takes place. The glory days are gone, so is the desire to level again and again. Sure let people either level from 1 or insta-90, but don't charge people again, who just want to play something else.

They absolutely abuse their loyal fanbase, this is as raunchy as first day DLC that was simply cut out of the game and resold for and extra 15 dollars.

[Deleted]

Yeah well, im willing to bet a huge amount of money on the fact they WILL sell items with stats at some point in the future. Probably not any current ilvl gear, but gear that will work as a catch-up to current content for alts or people that came back to the game after a long while. Sure its maybe not pro lewtz for money, but slowly but steadily this game is becoming more and more about money for bypassing stuff.

[Count Zero]

Yes it does, they have made a lot of bad, unpopular decisions in the past few years and it shows from declining sub numbers. This one is going to be unpopular as well because most players actually don't want to pay.. other than die hard Blizzard fans who play anyway. For most it's going to be "if I already pay my $15 a month, why are they asking for more for this?".. it might not cause every single player to quit but even if they lose 2% to this, 1% to another unpopular change, 5% to that etc. it's going to add up.

OK ... name something that has only made good, popular decisions.

[Roadblock]

I'm reading all this back and forth and one thing keeps playing in my head.

Blizzard is selling you the opposite of content.

Read that again.
A company is selling you a fucking void and you're thanking them for it.

Capitalism truly rots the brain...

[Deleted]

Nothing wrong with selling level 90's, so you get into the fun part of the game faster... so what? It's not buy to win because you aren't winning by reaching level 90.

[CheeseSandwich]

I'm reading all this back and forth and one thing keeps playing in my head.

Blizzard is selling you the opposite of content.

Read that again.
A company is selling you a fucking void and you're thanking them for it.

Capitalism truly rots the brain...

I can't help but agree with this.

[reckoner04]

Whoever says that leveling isn't part of character progression is either lying or has never actually played WoW. Some people seem to define character progression in an arbitrary way, and it doesn't make any sense:

"Leveling isn't part of progression, everybody has done it already anyway and it's easy. Let's buy a max level character."
"Getting dungeon gear isn't part of progression, everybody has done it already anyway and it's easy. Let's buy dungeon gear."
"Getting LFR gear isn't part of progression, everybody has done it already anyway and it's easy. Let's buy LFR gear."
"Maxing out professions isn't part of progression, everybody has done it already anyway and it's easy. Let's buy maxed out professions."
"Maxing out some reputations isn't part of progression, everybody has done it already anyway and it's easy. Let's buy maxed out professions."
"Getting full enchants and gems isn't part of progression, everybody has done it already anyway and it's easy. Let's buy enchants/gems."

All arbitrary definitions of what doesn't belong to progression in the same sense as people say leveling isn't part of progression. If you're in favor of one single one of them, you're also in favor of all the others I listed, since you can apply the exact same arguments to them.

OK ... name something that has only made good, popular decisions.

Don't derail the thread. This is about WoW, not other games.

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

All this BS talk would stop if the requirement for this service came with the requirement that you had to have a max lvl character and the boost would only boost you up to the previous expansion max.

[reckoner04]

All this BS talk would stop if the requirement for this service came with the requirement that you had to have a max lvl character and the boost would only boost you up to the previous expansion max.

That wouldn't change the fact that leveling is part of character progression and buying progression with real money is P2W and unacceptable, especially in a subscription-based game. If you made it possible without paying real money it would be a different story.

- - - Updated - - -

Apparently in this poll:
http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/1329687-Experience-for-Gold-Vendor
only 35% were in favor of buying exp with GOLD.

But according to this poll:
http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...port-or-Oppose
61% are in favor of buying exp with REAL CURRENCY.

How does that even make any fucking sense?

If the problem is that leveling simply isn't fun enough anymore after so many years/characters, then the solution should be to offer ingame means to skip levels (which I'm very much for; not necessarily the one proposed in the first link). But, apparently, this is the argument that many people here make to support buying levels with real money.

[Count Zero]

Don't derail the thread. This is about WoW, not other games.

The person I quoted said WoW has made a lot of bad, unpopular decisions that have led to its decline. I'm trying to explore that claim.

Don't dismiss valid points of discussion.

[procne]

3 years ago I would be outraged. But now... Leveling process has been so diluted and become so easy that it seems it's no longer important. I really don't care if someone legitimately leveled his character or just bought it.

And, since I haven't been raiding since Wotlk I probably wouldn't care if someone bought gear either :/

[ElChig]

That wouldn't change the fact that leveling is part of character progression and buying progression with real money is P2W and unacceptable, especially in a subscription-based game. If you made it possible without paying real money it would be a different story.

- - - Updated - - -

Apparently in this poll:
http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/1329687-Experience-for-Gold-Vendor
only 35% were in favor of buying exp with GOLD.

But according to this poll:
http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...port-or-Oppose
61% are in favor of buying exp with REAL CURRENCY.

How does that even make any fucking sense?

If the problem is that leveling simply isn't fun enough anymore after so many years/characters, then the solution should be to offer ingame means to skip levels (which I'm very much for; not necessarily the one proposed in the first link). But, apparently, this is the argument that many people here make to support buying levels with real money.

^^^This^^^.

[Deleted]

Cant belivie nonfanboys are still playing this game.

Go to illegal servers, they are being filled by people now that have an IQ over 80 atleast.

Thank you dear fanboys for ruining this game.

Well lets put a shity list of what isnt p2win that "might" be bought in the future.

Pvp and raid gear from last tier.

Instant lvl 100.

Bonus xp.

Extra loot.

Raid resetting.

Rep.

Hairstyles.

New models.

Instantly upgrade to 310% mount speed.

Buy 360% mount speed in the store.

Free respeccs forever.

Third dual spec.

Blue mage fire.

Burning druid forms.

Complete quests insantly.

The list goes on.

And btw one more thing: screw RAF.

Infracted.

[Dormie]

If the problem is that leveling simply isn't fun enough anymore after so many years/characters, then the solution should be to offer ingame means to skip levels (which I'm very much for; not necessarily the one proposed in the first link). But, apparently, this is the argument that many people here make to support buying levels with real money.

How do you come to that conclusion? Isn't the obvious solution to make it fun? Rather than simplify this game even more? See, you just accept broken things and try to bandaid them rather than fixing them.

[billielecter]

Hey have you guys noticed that when you have no new content to play you still kind of subscribing to WoW by purchasing mounts and pets in store or pre-purchasing boost 90. It's pathetic. WoW has become a game that its content attracts players no more. WoW is heading to some sort of half-free mode. You still sub month fee and you buy boosting and mounts in store. Someday, you will buy enchantments and gems, all kinds of transmogs even some titles and some trinkets. You will find it "natural" when you do it step by step. WoW will embrace an era which you really pay to win.