Why Is A Free 90 A Bad Thing To Some?

[NineSpine]

Do you seriously compare the time it takes to level to 90, to a scenario or two? You're dense.

Do you seriously compare raiding week after week for gear to questing for an hour in the next expansion?

That doesn't change the fact that you give real money to have a head start over people that don't. That's the definition of P2W, btw. And if you want an alt that badly but you're too tired of leveling, then you don't want it bad enough or you should consider trying another game instead.

No, that isn't the definition of pay to win. When you start arguing that people need to want their alt bad enough to trudge through boring old content in order to play it, you've demonstrated the problem, not refuted it.

Yes there is. Each account limited to only ONE lv 90 boost. See? Took me 2 min to find a reasonable way to stop people from buying multiple copies.

You can have multiple WoW accounts, and depending on the circumstances you can transfer characters between them. Try again.

Why not abolish levels altogether so noobs can just pick the game and start pounding you right away?

Games exist to be fun, not to give you personally a smug sense of superiority over other people. If you like leveling because it STOPS other people from playing, then I don't think you and Blizzard are on the same page. This may be a shocker, but Blizzard wants people to play their game. They don't want people to quit by throwing, artificial, boring obstacles in their way so that Orly can feel like a big man.

[Ichifails]

Guys lets be honest here. With the release of WoD the maximum level is going to reach the number 100. Starting from level 1 to reach that roof is a bit overwhelming and discouraging for most and especially for the newcomers. This was bound to happen sooner or later.

I currently have all classes level 90, except a priest, and i was trying to start anew on an Alliance PvP server. I could certainly use that option if i could to make things easier as far as time investment is concerned.

For players like me, who play since 2007, leveling has nothing to offer, at all.

I play since 2005 and holy shit I would do anything to skip leveling. Such a bloody useless part of the game at this time. You don't learn jack shit and people that want to play this game properly will play this game properly no matter if they start at level 1 or 90.

It takes under a day to get 90 now... it will probably take 10-12 hours to get 1-90 in WoD. I'd rather suck dick for nickles for 12 hours and pay for a 90 and not go through the pain of leveling the 30th character.

[Varabently]

I've experienced 'ebay' characters (when they used to be easy to get) - people could do the basic 3 or 4 things, but had no idea how to dispel, cc, shield or any of the other things you learn ONE at a time as you level up from 1.

Isn't there some kind of tutorial in the works? IMO they should make you pass a proving grounds-type test, even like bronze or silver difficulty (which are trivial to do on live). That way you aren't a complete mouth-breather when you get out into the world.

As long as something like that is in place, I frankly don't have any issues with this. It will have some kind of effect on low level dungeons/BGs, but I don't really care too much about those TBH.

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It takes under a day to get 90 now...

Really? Even on my monk I have played about 1 day, almost all of that with the 1 hour exp bonus, and i'm only level 66. I think this is a bit of hyperbole. It takes about 12 or 15 hours to get from 85-90 doesn't it? That's 2-3 hours per level. I need to l2level apparently.

[Jester Joe]

You can have multiple WoW accounts, and depending on the circumstances you can transfer characters between them. Try again

Which also happens to be the reason why they're considering adding this option to buy a level 90. Because some people asked if they'd be able to buy a copy of WoD to transfer the level 90 to their account. Overall I'm assuming they're just gonna make it more affordable for everyone.

Really? Even on my monk I have played about 1 day, almost all of that with the 1 hour exp bonus, and i'm only level 66. I think this is a bit of hyperbole. It takes about 12 or 15 hours to get from 85-90 doesn't it? That's 2-3 hours per level. I need to l2level apparently.

It takes me more than a day to just get from 85-90 like you said. I think they're just exaggerating....

[Orly]

Do you seriously compare raiding week after week for gear to questing for an hour in the next expansion?

Uhm....no, I don't. When did I do that? You did that. Lol. Having problems staying on track?

No, that isn't the definition of pay to win. When you start arguing that people need to want their alt bad enough to trudge through boring old content in order to play it, you've demonstrated the problem, not refuted it.

It's boring old content just for the likes of you who are stacked in 90s and can't level another char without vomiting from the sheer repetition of it. Hence the "you should consider trying another game" advice. I'm not sure what you're reading, but I never said you need to want your alt bad enough to lvl thru it. You have your target, an alt, and the requirement to achieve it, leveling. The fact that you consider the target as too small a reward for the requirement is strictly YOUR problem, and you should either get to it like a man or cry that it's too hard to level, like a sissy.

You can have multiple WoW accounts, and depending on the circumstances you can transfer characters between them. Try again.

Make starter accounts not eligible for a free boost. You have 2 or more accounts with all expansions up to Mists? Then you deserve more free lv 90s. Took me 3min this time, i confess.

Games exist to be fun, not to give you personally a smug sense of superiority over other people. If you like leveling because it STOPS other people from playing, then I don't think you and Blizzard are on the same page. This may be a shocker, but Blizzard wants people to play their game. They don't want people to quit by throwing, artificial, boring obstacles in their way so that Orly can feel like a big man.

It might come as a surprise to you, but leveling IS playing their game. I have 40 lv 90s so yeah...you must spend a lot of cash to make me feel bad. 41 soon, actually I think it goes without saying that I like leveling because I find leveling fun. People like you, on the other hand, hate leveling because you're too afraid to admit that this game no longer interests you in all its aspects.

What bothers me is that you pay money to have an advantage over people who don't. Can you honestly consider an account having a lv 90, 2 lv 85s and a lv 47 the same as one having 4 lv 90s and exactly the same played time? No, you can't, unless you're dense.

And I didn't know you're speaking for Blizzard. Like ...really....how can you say what they want and what they don't as a company?

[walkingtall]

This will sound weird but I like leveling, or did when I was playing. The PVP while borked is better because you get actual players, more often than bots. You get to see the old world, etc. If you level without a gold boost then you also get the challenge of making gold, albeit it's a pretty small challenge today.

That said, with heirlooms, 5-man quest bonuses, pvp boosts, there's really not much to defend about leveling. We may as well flush that old content down the toilet because you barely see it as you level. You can plow any of the previous expansions, literally, in a weekend if you goof off, and in a day if you grind. And you can literally do it while never leaving dungeon finder.

The only thing that I think should happen, but it won't, is that you should have to level, once. I think it helps you understand the back story, the feel of the game and there are a lot of subtleties that you pick up with the game play. But I'd be hard-pressed to defend any of that as necessary.

[NineSpine]

Uhm....no, I don't. When did I do that? You did that. Lol. Having problems staying on track?

You said it's not pay to win to buy an expansion because you don't trivialize the old raids until youve played a little bit in the new expansion, and that even if that playtime is trivial compared to the time it took to raid for gear in the previous expansion, it requires some degree of playtime and therefore isn't pay to win.

This makes no sense, because you also say that doing an introductory scenario to your new 90 doesn't count as a replacement for leveling to 90. Why not? You buy an expansion and trivialize the old content in an hour.

It's boring old content just for the likes of you who are stacked in 90s and can't level another char without vomiting from the sheer repetition of it. Hence the "you should consider trying another game" advice.

As I said, I don't think Blizzard's goal is to get you to go play other games and quit their game. Your goal might be to drive players away, but it isn't their goal.

I'm not sure what you're reading, but I never said you need to want your alt bad enough to lvl thru it.

Direct quote from you, like one post ago: "And if you want an alt that badly but you're too tired of leveling, then you don't want it bad enough or you should consider trying another game instead."

You have your target, an alt, and the requirement to achieve it, leveling. The fact that you consider the target as too small a reward for the requirement is strictly YOUR problem, and you should either get to it like a man or cry that it's too hard to level, like a sissy.

As I said, games are for fun, not to glorify Orly's ego. Blizzard wants people to play their games. If the game isn't fun, people will go play a game that is fun.

Make starter accounts not eligible for a free boost. You have 2 or more accounts with all expansions up to Mists? Then you deserve more free lv 90s. Took me 3min this time, i confess.

Wait, so now "pay to win" is OK as long as it's more expensive?

It might come as a surprise to you, but leveling IS playing their game.

Blizzard decides that playing their game is, not you. They clearly don't think that 1-90 is an accurate reflection of the game, as the game has become increasingly end-game and current expansion focused.

I have 40 lv 90s so yeah...you must spend a lot of cash to make me feel bad. 41 soon, actually I think it goes without saying that I like leveling because I find leveling fun. People like you, on the other hand, hate leveling because you're too afraid to admit that this game no longer interests you in all its aspects.

I have a warlock and a death knight. Been playing the Warlock as my main since BC. I have zero desire to level anything or really play anything else. Perfectly happy with my warlock. Ill boost my DK with my free boost, but I doubt Ill ever play it. He's still 80.

What bothers me is that you pay money to have an advantage over people who don't. Can you honestly consider an account having a lv 90, 2 lv 85s and a lv 47 the same as one having 4 lv 90s and exactly the same played time? No, you can't, unless you're dense.

You just said that you don't have a problem with paying money for that advantage as long as it's very expensive.

And I didn't know you're speaking for Blizzard. Like ...really....how can you say what they want and what they don't as a company?

Because they are extraordinarily active in conveying their design goals publicly.

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By the way, I love the idea that "Blizzard wants people to play their games" is such a radical statement to you that you think you can challenge me for not knowing if that is really their goal. Are you that self-important that you really think Blizzard would rather make you feel like a special snowflake personally than attract a dozen other players?

[Thage]

Make starter accounts not eligible for a free boost. You have 2 or more accounts with all expansions up to Mists? Then you deserve more free lv 90s. Took me 3min this time, i confess.

So if the bought boost is the same as the cost of getting that 90 the other way...

[The Penguin]

Why? Because it's change you can believe in.

Scaring people since the dawn of time.

[Orly]

You said it's not pay to win to buy an expansion because you don't trivialize the old raids until youve played a little bit in the new expansion, and that even if that playtime is trivial compared to the time it took to raid for gear in the previous expansion, it requires some degree of playtime and therefore isn't pay to win.

This makes no sense, because you also say that doing an introductory scenario to your new 90 doesn't count as a replacement for leveling to 90. Why not? You buy an expansion and trivialize the old content in an hour.

It makes sense because (as i have already mentioned /rolleyes) you can't compare one or two scenarios to a 1-90 lvl-up. Put a fully heroic DS geared 85 vs a mist-geared 86/87 and you'll see who'll win. You're pretty wrong at the "trivializing old content" part, something I never mentioned btw, only you did.

And last but not least, the difference in levels. 30min for a lv 90 vs 30min for a lv 8. You know, the ACTUAL levels. You can't seem to grasp this one in particular.

As I said, I don't think Blizzard's goal is to get you to go play other games and quit their game. Your goal might be to drive players away, but it isn't their goal.

As I said, leveling is part of the game. Blizzard's goal is to milk more cash by making you play this game. They either a) make u play longer by lvling regularly or b) give you an instant lv 90 that probably costs you the same as the time it takes u to lvl one, to make sure you stick to the game and not get turned off by leveling.

And if players are driven away by the mere idea of leveling (which is basically in the definition of an RPG) then they're as good as gone anyway. You just want your team to start on 5th place mid-season without any effort other than a financial one.

Direct quote from you, like one post ago: "And if you want an alt that badly but you're too tired of leveling, then you don't want it bad enough or you should consider trying another game instead."

I fail to see the word "need" in my quote. Not to mention that you should really consider other games if you're so tired of leveling ( which, for the last time, is part of the game) you can't have another alt unless you pay for it to be withing 10 lvls of the cap.

As I said, games are for fun, not to glorify Orly's ego. Blizzard wants people to play their games. If the game isn't fun, people will go play a game that is fun.

So you can't have fun in a game unless you can skip to the last part? You're going to have a bad time with games in general then.

Wait, so now "pay to win" is OK as long as it's more expensive?

Having more accounts means you had a lot of leveling and probably a lot of characters out of it. There's a difference between "3 accounts, 3 lv 90s today, 6 lv 90s tomorrow" and "1 account, 3 lv 90s today, 10 lv 90s tomorrow". I wonder if u can spot it though...

Blizzard decides that playing their game is, not you. They clearly don't think that 1-90 is an accurate reflection of the game, as the game has become increasingly end-game and current expansion focused.

As long as there will still be levels and items, dungeons, quests and zones for each level, I'll dismiss that as nothing more than your deluded opinion.

I have a warlock and a death knight. Been playing the Warlock as my main since BC. I have zero desire to level anything or really play anything else. Perfectly happy with my warlock. Ill boost my DK with my free boost, but I doubt Ill ever play it. He's still 80.

And probably 2 of each class after WoD is released. Both casual and lame. I doubt you'll ever play them though.

You just said that you don't have a problem with paying money for that advantage as long as it's very expensive.

And I just think you can't read properly.

Because they are extraordinarily active in conveying their design goals publicly.

So you admit they're cash grabbing?

By the way, I love the idea that "Blizzard wants people to play their games" is such a radical statement to you that you think you can challenge me for not knowing if that is really their goal. Are you that self-important that you really think Blizzard would rather make you feel like a special snowflake personally than attract a dozen other players?

I love the idea that you are so confident of the fact that you know exactly what their intentions are. You don't. You're not them.
Are you that self-important that you really think Blizzard only cares about end-game and would risk losing dozen other players by implementing P2W?

[turbo92]

I feel it is bad for the game because i think it robs people from experiencing leveling up, and actually putting alot of effort into their characters, this will reflect on how they meet endgame content aswell. Like if you get to max level with little to no struggle, you'll expect endgame to be the same, so you'll get stuck doing LFG/LFR

[Soulzar]

Its easy to learn a rotation...

But there is a level of familiarity with your character and its abilities that you miss when learning all your abilities at once, instead of one at a time with a few levels between to experiment with and incorporate it into your play.

I think a lot of the "skill" is learned through the trials of the leveling experience and it showed a lot IMO when DK's were first introduced and started at lvl 55.

Above said, its not going to break the game.

[NineSpine]

It makes sense because (as i have already mentioned /rolleyes) you can't compare one or two scenarios to a 1-90 lvl-up. Put a fully heroic DS geared 85 vs a mist-geared 86/87 and you'll see who'll win. You're pretty wrong at the "trivializing old content" part, something I never mentioned btw, only you did.

Your opinion is still inconsistent. You've stated that you don't want people to buy advantage. Having an expansion is an advantage, and it costs money.

And last but not least, the difference in levels. 30min for a lv 90 vs 30min for a lv 8. You know, the ACTUAL levels. You can't seem to grasp this one in particular.

As I said, leveling is part of the game. Blizzard's goal is to milk more cash by making you play this game. They either a) make u play longer by lvling regularly or b) give you an instant lv 90 that probably costs you the same as the time it takes u to lvl one, to make sure you stick to the game and not get turned off by leveling.

Leveling part of the game, but it's very clear that Blizzard wants people to be able to skip leveling through the old content if they wish. They already build it into the game to skip old raiding content, so I don't see how this shocks you. They don't make you raid Black Temple, so why should they make you level through even older content than that?

And if players are driven away by the mere idea of leveling (which is basically in the definition of an RPG) then they're as good as gone anyway. You just want your team to start on 5th place mid-season without any effort other than a financial one.

They aren't removing leveling, so your argument doesn't matter. They are removing mandated old content.

I fail to see the word "need" in my quote. Not to mention that you should really consider other games if you're so tired of leveling ( which, for the last time, is part of the game) you can't have another alt unless you pay for it to be withing 10 lvls of the cap.

"Need" wasn't the operative word. You implied that people should need to want to work through boring bullshit to play the new expansion. You may view gaming as a chore, most do not.

So you can't have fun in a game unless you can skip to the last part? You're going to have a bad time with games in general then.

When I ask a friend to come play a game, they don't want to play with me next month. They want to play with me relatively soon. That's the reality of the situation. If I ask a friend to come play almost any other game, they can do that. Welcome to the real world. Only in your deluded mind do most games operate on the idea that you need to plow through dated, old content to play new things and play with your friends.

Having more accounts means you had a lot of leveling and probably a lot of characters out of it. There's a difference between "3 accounts, 3 lv 90s today, 6 lv 90s tomorrow" and "1 account, 3 lv 90s today, 10 lv 90s tomorrow". I wonder if u can spot it though...

How does having more accounts mean you had a lot of leveling? As soon as WoD came out, I could buy five accounts and get a 90 from each one, then leave each account to rot. It would be a ten minute process to buy an account, get your 90, transfer it. You wouldn't even have to activate the account because it would come with a free month.

As long as there will still be levels and items, dungeons, quests and zones for each level, I'll dismiss that as nothing more than your deluded opinion.

Blizzard isn't quiet about these things. It's very obvious what their intentions are. If they wanted everyone to play through old content, each expansions wouldn't negate all of the previous expansion's endgame.

And probably 2 of each class after WoD is released. Both casual and lame. I doubt you'll ever play them though.

I have zero interest in playing any other class. You aren't special. Blizzard doesn't care if you are "casual". I pay the same amount for the game that you do. You continue to act like Blizzard made WoW to validate you and make you feel like a big man. They didn't. They made it for people to have fun.

And I just think you can't read properly.

So you admit they're cash grabbing?

Breaking news: WoW is made by a company that exists to make money! Previous reports of their existence being solely to make Orly feel like an important person because of his progress in a fantasy video game world are INCORRECT!

I love the idea that you are so confident of the fact that you know exactly what their intentions are. You don't. You're not them.
Are you that self-important that you really think Blizzard only cares about end-game and would risk losing dozen other players by implementing P2W?

They are implementing the free 90 to attract new and returning players, because their retention rate for new and returning players is shit. There is no reasonable way to do that without creating a massive loophole where players could buy accounts for the 90 and then transfer it over to their main account, so it's only logical to support the feature outright.

If they lose a handful of self-important turds in the process, they don't care. They care about net gains, not about you. I know it's hard to accept this, but Blizzard doesn't care about you. They don't make WoW for you. They don't exist just to validate you and make you feel like an important person.

[Cebel]

Because the game is multi-player. Meaning other's skills in their class affect you.

No - I'm not an elitist, but I'd like people to at least have to TRY their best in their class, not PAY their best.

except no body actually gets good at their class/role by leveling to 90. You cant possibly learn how to properly learn to play your class without knowing every ability and mechanic associated with the class ( many of which you get at 90, and many of the things you get at 90 completely change the way the game is played ).

[Anzaman]

It takes about 12 or 15 hours to get from 85-90 doesn't it?

What? Probably before nerf but nowadays I can get level 88 alone with Jade Forest -quests and completing the dungeon once.

And it sure won't take 10 hours to complete the first zone.

[Noxina]

It is the two last levels that takes longest though. I never ever level anything after I get my my main and 2-3 alts, so havent leveled since the very beginning of MoP so cant realy say anything about how it is now ^^

[chezwickcheese]

Because those people are jealous of us working type who have money to spend.

I honestly don't understand why. The majority of players have seen the content a dozen times. Why would you want to see it avian and again? It's boring and in no way adds to end game.

[Noxina]

Anyone know what the price will be? Havent realy followed Blizzcon or any news from Blizzard lately. If its somewhere around $19 it should be worth it, thats like 1-2 hours of work in real life, against 24-48 hours gaming time? (Havent leveled in ages, got no clue how long it takes to get to 90)