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  1. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alextana View Post
    No. I am indeed forced to use outside means if I want
    I am guessing you don't see the problem there?

  2. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by UnifiedDivide View Post
    No, you do not learn your class while leveling. You learn literally the bare minimum to get to max level. Bad players will always be bad players whether they got the account on eBay, paid for a boost or actually leveled. All players boosting a toon will have to do a DK-like starting area anyway to learn a bit of the class before going into WoD content.
    Agreed, of course you don't learn how to play the endgame of wow from the leveling experience. Through the leveling experience you do however get a closer relationship with your abilities if you level all the way of 1-100, than you would from leveling only 90-100. While it won't learn you how to play the endgame, it will indeed give the player a better starting point.

  3. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zellviren View Post
    I've no idea what the RAF numbers are, but I'd guess you're overestimating them. My point here (and why I tried to rephrase in the post you quoted) is that the levelling curve should be worthwhile and bring new players into the game properly rather than ditching them in at the deep end. Learning a rotation, earning gold, working on professions, experiencing the story and getting to know other players all help immersion, which should be the hallmark of an MMO.

    My question to you is this:

    If you believe skipping 1-90 is fine, and Blizzard believes the same, why are they not removing it entirely?
    Leveling is a staple of RPGs, and while the community here is hyper-focused on end-game; it's really not representative of the community as a whole. There's a not insignificant proportion of the playerbase who enjoy it, and for whom leveling alts of different race and class combinations is basically their game. I don't doubt that there are plenty of players at max level who also enjoy leveling; I mean it doesn't exactly take long to find threads here that complain about how leveling is too easy and too trivial. Removing the whole experience altogether then would adversely effect a lot of players, which is bad for the game.

    That's why the whole thing looks grubby to me. Rather than fixing something that's imperfect, as you've rightly implied, they're leaving it in as an inconvenience that people will likely be allowed to pay money to avoid.
    Some will, but just like you think I'm overestimating how many people are using existing workarounds - even convenient in game things like the XP pots, DMF buff, heirlooms etc - I think you're overestimating how many players will make use of this feature.

    It's cynical.
    I disagree, I think it's streamlining existing systems and making them more readily available. Sure, I'd love for them to fix things, but Cataclysm tried and failed horribly at doing that; I don't think it would be a good use of resources to do that when people are still going to regard it as an inconvenience whatever they do to it because what they actually want to be doing is playing with their friends at the level cap.

  4. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quilzar View Post
    hahahaha

    You think you learn that from leveling 1-90?

    OT: Haters love to hate, EVERY single thing blizzard does will be hated on and people will moan and bitch about it, I don't think I have seen a single announcement that people have not moaned and bitched about.

    I remember when they announced everyone could play ever race regardless of if you owned the expansion or not (Goblins, Worgens etc) and people complained about that.
    I remember reading every spell my mage got back at Wrath, and thinking how would I benefit from using it.

    Learnt how to win duels vs paladins dk and warlocks, because of howmany times I dueled them/fought allys in open world.
    Or how to cast poly every time I saw a pack with a moon icon on top of it, when running dungeons.

    But because of how blizz changed stuff today
    I killed my brother's mage at lvl 90, using Unstable affliction only and my defensive cds, maybe he is just that bad but I don't really think anyone could be that bad when he is max level back at Sub-cataclysm.

  5. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cylom View Post
    I remember reading every spell my mage got back at Wrath, and thinking how would I benefit from using it.

    Learnt how to win duels vs paladins dk and warlocks, because of howmany times I dueled them/fought allys in open world.
    Or how to cast poly every time I saw a pack with a moon icon on top of it, when running dungeons.

    But because of how blizz changed stuff today
    I killed my brother's mage at lvl 90, using Unstable affliction only and my defensive cds, maybe he is just that bad but I don't really think anyone could be that bad when he is max level back at Sub-cataclysm.
    And people like you can still do that right?

    They are not removing the spell book or anything right?

    Terrible players will still be terrible, players who want to be good will want to be good.

    You can level 1-90 spamming frost bolt.

  6. #166
    Old thinking a lot of it. I'd guess a lot of people that levelled themselves to 90 feel jealous that someone can bypass that effort with the click of a button. Some people might also not have a problem with the 1 time free 90 boost but the paid option for multiple characters.

    A lot of people need to realise times have changed. The game already has 90 levels and although one can argue it doesn't take long to reach 90, a lot of new people joining the game want to jump right into the relevant content. You don't even learn classes while levelling anymore, another old argument that doesn't really apply in todays WoW. I mean, how could you? You don't get the majority of your spells until level 70-80.

    Either way, doesn't bother me personally.
    Last edited by Xucuroz; 2014-01-17 at 01:38 PM.
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  7. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by schwarzkopf View Post
    Correct - it requires SOME knowledge of the class. It requires the person play it for a few days (or weeks or what ever).
    SoR and RaF would like a word with you.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Xucuroz View Post
    Old thinking a lot of it. I'd guess a lot of people that levelled themselves to 90 feel jealous that someone can bypass that effort with the click of a button. Some people might also not have a problem with the 1 time free 90 boost but the paid option for multiple characters.

    A lot of people need to realise times have changed. The game already has 90 levels and although one can argue it doesn't take long to reach 90, a lot of new people joining the game want to jump right into the relevant content. You don't even learn classes while levelling anymore, another old argument that doesn't really apply in todays WoW. I mean, how could you? You don't get the majority of your spells until level 70-80.

    Either way, doesn't bother me personally.
    Agreed. It takes what 72 hours to hit lvl 90? Even if you level it yourself, there is still no knowing how to play that class at end game until you hit end game. If end game is 100, and I can buy the first 90 levels, that gives me 10 levels to adjust to my class and then all the time in the world to learn how to raid with it. Especially when raiding rotations are far different from leveling.

    Also, for those who use RaF or SoR, for their instant 80s, who level them to 90s, apparently, some of these people think you know nothing about your character or your class. Maybe you should all weigh in and let them know how easy the 10 levels were and what iLvL you are currently sitting at

  8. #168
    People in LFR will become so bad though! Because the leveling experience is just too valuable for people to learn how to play their class!

    I know when Blizzard radically changed classes between expansions, I purposely deleted my max level characters to level them fresh, because otherwise it would have been impossible for me to learn how to play with them again! No matter how much you understand the abilities by looking in your spellbook and reading the descriptions, you simply cannot fathom how they can possibly work without 90 levels of spamming one or two of them! Characters that skip will forever be bad!

    Plus also, it's called an MMORPG, so you need to go through 90 basically solitary levels of spamming one or two buttons. People that don't want to do that are clearly playing the wrong game, and should quit... because I say so!
    Some of the arguments I've seen so far...

  9. #169
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    The positive things of this new feature as I see it: increased motivation to play the game for some newcomers. If they're smart, they will try out a few different classes at low level first to be sure the one they choose is a class they like.

    Once they have this character they will know how much better gameplay is at high levels, which will motivate them to level a new character all the way from 1-100. For veterans it's simply a convenient bonus for those that don't enjoy leveling.

    The negative: Starting a class at level 90 can be overwhelming and the learning curve is significantly steeper (atleast initially) this can demotivate some people, or make them bad players at max level. Perhaps Blizzard should have made the character a lvl 80 or 85 to give people a little more time to get to know their class before max level. Conclusion: some beginners can handle it, some can't.
    There is also the concern that this will eventually be a paid service which I agree would be excessive.


    This is all speculation of course, we won't know for sure until the feature is out.
    Last edited by mmoc3e0efa8d7a; 2014-01-17 at 02:58 PM.

  10. #170
    It's not a bad thing in the sense that if someone else can acquire it, go ahead. Nor is the idea that there will be some influx of bad players relevant, because you really don't need to display any amount of skill during the leveling process as it currently stands

    But it cheapens an already hilariously shallow game. A free 90, and purchasable multiple 90s afterwards, is Blizzard saying "yep, the bulk of our content isn't worth investing in as a player".

    That stance is supposed to make me want to continue subbing to this game? Pass.

    /in other news, I wonder how hard they're kicking themselves for wasting time revamping old world content in Cata.

  11. #171
    Why is it a bad thing

    We all have played WoW and we all worked hard to get our character max level if you want to play and MMORPG you should know you have to level
    giving a free 90 defeats the whole idea of the game might as well take away the first 1-90 levels and if you give brand new WoW players a character at 90 you are just developing bad players its like someone handing me any video game and saying here its already beat for you but you can still walk around and have fun

  12. #172
    Quote Originally Posted by schwarzkopf View Post
    I've experienced 'ebay' characters (when they used to be easy to get) - people could do the basic 3 or 4 things, but had no idea how to dispel, cc, shield or any of the other things you learn ONE at a time as you level up from 1.
    I understand what you mean here, but to be fair, I've played with people who actually leveled their classes all the way up from 1 and didn't know how (or just didn't care) to do any of that stuff either.

  13. #173
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkpoison324 View Post
    Why is it a bad thing

    We all have played WoW and we all worked hard to get our character max level if you want to play and MMORPG you should know you have to level
    giving a free 90 defeats the whole idea of the game might as well take away the first 1-90 levels and if you give brand new WoW players a character at 90 you are just developing bad players its like someone handing me any video game and saying here its already beat for you but you can still walk around and have fun
    Except it's not the same thing at all.

    What you're saying is that since I was already level 85 at Mists launch, and 90 at Warlords launch, that I have already beat the game, so what's the point? You're flat out wrong on that. I spent less than 5% of my game time leveling from 85-90 in Mists pre-5.1, the vast majority of my time the past few years has been at end-game. To say the game was already over is just wrong.

  14. #174
    Quote Originally Posted by Continuity View Post
    Except it's not the same thing at all.

    What you're saying is that since I was already level 85 at Mists launch, and 90 at Warlords launch, that I have already beat the game, so what's the point? You're flat out wrong on that. I spent less than 5% of my game time leveling from 85-90 in Mists pre-5.1, the vast majority of my time the past few years has been at end-game. To say the game was already over is just wrong.
    blizzard is turning into a shit hole, basically what i'm saying is blizzard is coming to the point where you can pay to win soon your group will wipe on a boss and you can all pay 10$ to auto pass the boss and get loot its a terrible concept to put into the game as everyone knows leveling is not hard even if your a new player
    and a new player at level 90 is going to have a horrible time leveling in WOD because they have no idea how to play there character

  15. #175
    Scarab Lord Anzaman's Avatar
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    I've almost every class at level 90 now, just missing Mage and Death Knight.

    I don't care if someone wants to "waste" their money on level-90 boost, as in current form leveling isn't even enjoyable anymore (too easy and too fast). Nowadays you hardly even learn the "meaning" of your support spells during leveling; try to CC in leveling dungeon? Someone will break it instantly anyways.

  16. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by melodramocracy View Post
    But it cheapens an already hilariously shallow game. A free 90, and purchasable multiple 90s afterwards, is Blizzard saying "yep, the bulk of our content isn't worth investing in as a player".
    No more than new content rendering older content obsolete. This is the nature of the game. It's not that the leveling content isn't worth investing in as a player. It's that most players have already invested enough in that content
    Last edited by Raelbo; 2014-01-17 at 04:11 PM.

  17. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkpoison324 View Post
    basically what i'm saying is blizzard is coming to the point where you can pay to win soon your group will wipe on a boss and you can all pay 10$ to auto pass the boss and get loot
    and it's exactly statements like this that make it hard to talk about this, because we go from talking about a simple level 90 to some stupid example.

    Quote Originally Posted by Darkpoison324 View Post
    everyone knows leveling is not hard even if your a new player
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkpoison324 View Post
    a new player at level 90 is going to have a horrible time leveling in WOD because they have no idea how to play there character
    So levelling is both hard and easy? Or will it just be the levelling in WOD that'll be hard?

  18. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raelbo View Post
    No more than new content rendering older content obsolete. This is the nature of the game. It's not that the leveling content isn't worth investing in as a player. It's that most players have already invested enough in that content
    Well said. I think that hits it on the head. Every new expansion renders the older ones useless.

  19. #179
    So becoming an instant 90 immediately removes any possibility of people learning their class. okay.

  20. #180
    Quote Originally Posted by schwarzkopf View Post
    I've experienced 'ebay' characters (when they used to be easy to get) - people could do the basic 3 or 4 things, but had no idea how to dispel, cc, shield or any of the other things you learn ONE at a time as you level up from 1.
    I raid heroics on my Warlock. I've been playing it for several years. I know how to play this game.

    All my learning took place at max level. Even after I learned how to play and ran low level dungeons on alts, I never had to dispel or cc, just aoe zerg. Even on my healer alts I wound up dpsing more than healing in dungeons I queued as healer for because so little damage was coming our way. On my tank alts, threat was never an issue, because even if a dps pulled something off me, they could tank it basically as well as I could.

    Of course this is just one person's experience. But I think it's silly to imply that all bought characters are played by players ignorant of game mechanics, and all leveled characters are played by players who learn the mechanics from leveling.
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