Is WoW always going to be like this?

[Lillemus]

The question being asked here is...what are the motivations to a new player to keep doing PVE after clearing LFR

-item level
-Gear with the same design (possibly a different color)
-tag in the armor saying heroic
- + stats on gear

<--- This to me (in my personal opinion) is the most irrelevant stuff I can experience in a game. Stats? Color? Same bosses? Same thing but harder?
This is the true question here...is this enough for a new player or even a normal player to want to improve and see.
You guys are calling us insane for believing a full geared person with LFR as seen 90% of the game...but I just cant see the point for fighting so hard to gain so little.
Im sorry but I see nothing cool enough to excite me. Maybe a title...nah, still no good feeling in my trousers. Nothing excites me anymore :C

Most games have difficulty settings, I often start out on the second hardest difficulty, if I feel I can take it up a notch, I do that. The option to put it on very easy is still there though, yet for some reason I still play the game on a harder difficulty, for.. hmm, what's it called again? Oh yeah, challenge, I like a challenge. It seems you don't, but that's on you.
Protip: You can actually watch videos of most games on popular sites such as youtube or twitch, simply unplug your mouse and keyboard after you've started the video and pretend it's you playing, it might not seem challenging (resulting in the fun) but we already determined that this was not important.

[Chrysia]

So? You get LFR gear to do LFR, heroic gear to do heroic. Which means gear is entirely pointless when the actual content doesn't change.

But the content does change. Sure, it's still the same boss graphically, but you don't fight the boss in at all the same manner from LFR to flex to normal to heroic.

[Sierra85]

I think warlords of draenor will see a paradigm shift back towards a more TBC like game.

[Lillemus]

But the content does change. Sure, it's still the same boss graphically, but you don't fight the boss in at all the same manner from LFR to flex to normal to heroic.

But experience wise and "feel" wise it's the same, I'm not agreeing with that argument, but I can understand it. However, with the current raid mindset it would be impossible to create content at the pace the top 1% would clear it and still maintain the profit they desire, some people just refuse that as a viable reasoning.

[Thage]

I think warlords of draenor will see a paradigm shift back towards a more TBC like game.

Yes, but no.
The TBC paradigm will be there for the people who want to go chase it. 5-mans will have leveling mode, 100 Normal, and Heroic, with Heroic currently slated as an alternative to LFR for gearing up to hit Normal/Heroic. Normal/Heroic then serves as a stepping stone to Mythic for that crowd. For the other side of the coin, there's Level 100 Normal and LFR, with more dungeons slated to be put in with each patch and 100 Normal getting retuned to stay relevant but still friendly to new players (to avoid the ToC/Frozen Halls and Zul'Again/Hour of Twilight problem of 1-3 dungeons as current 5-man content for months on end.

But the TBC paradigm itself, one of forced ladder progression and grindy attunement chains, are likely to remain dead and buried, and good riddance to bad rubbish in that regard. Any design system that encouraged ruthless guild poaching and isolationist LFG 'communities' deserves to be dragged out back and shot.

[Dormie]

But the content does change. Sure, it's still the same boss graphically, but you don't fight the boss in at all the same manner from LFR to flex to normal to heroic.

C'mon now, we both know this isn't true. I want to see a place, not a new number. I wish people would quit acting naive to this. Would you play this game if it was just 1 dungeon with 30 different difficulties?

[Deleted]

OP is a casual player

[Phasma]

But experience wise and "feel" wise it's the same, I'm not agreeing with that argument, but I can understand it. However, with the current raid mindset it would be impossible to create content at the pace the top 1% would clear it and still maintain the profit they desire, some people just refuse that as a viable reasoning.

Yes, it is quite hard to change the majority's view on challenging content. The majority have a desire for easy and fast in this quick moving world. I, personally, think people need to slow down and enjoy things more. If people move too quickly, they will run out of things to do. Being bored is no way to live.

[AeneasBK]

C'mon now, we both know this isn't true. I want to see a place, not a new number. I wish people would quit acting naive to this. Would you play this game if it was just 1 dungeon with 30 different difficulties?

This and your earlier post suggest one of 2 things

a) You've never seen an encounter in a raid outside of LFR since LFR was introduced.

b) You're trolling the hell out of us. Or trying to.

EDIT: This one

Incorrect. A lot of people play to see more content, not the same content that hits harder.

[Deleted]

C'mon now, we both know this isn't true. I want to see a place, not a new number. I wish people would quit acting naive to this. Would you play this game if it was just 1 dungeon with 30 different difficulties?

It's different mechanics, different strategies, different intensity... An entirely different experience.

LFR is an exercise in mindless, boring, going-through-the-motions, tediousness.
It is NOT even the same GAME as the heroic experience.

And making an entirely different experience for hardcore UTTERLY defeats the entire purpose of LFR. It's an ignorant stance in light of Blizzards clear and well-known position on the matter. You won't get it. Whining won't help you. This isn't the game for you. This is a game for casuals, with a little bonus for the tiny population of hardcore players. Blizzard will not give the hardcore players something that the casuals - the vast majority of players - are locked out of, simply because of who they are.

Again: If you refuse to play heroic because you already saw it on LFR, then you ARE a casual player. You HAVE played what you wanted to play. You DON'T really care about the extra challenges, no matter what you say. Actions speak louder than words.

[Deleted]

They need to equalize the gear quality of LFR gear with heroic dungeon gear. So rare quality w/ heroic dungeon ilevel & stats. That way it promotes flexible (normal) raiding and establishes Blizzards definition of LFR being 'tourist mode'.

If players want epics, they are going to have to find real players to raid with.

I hope they go through with this.
Nothing is more annoying than to see people being showered in loot for doing nothing.
"But LFR gear is 25 ilvls below Normal mode gear", please, you can still perform the semi-amount, if not the same amount of DPS in LFR gear as Normal gear.
Every time Blizzard releases a new raid, the LFR gear should remain on par with 6.0 HC dungeon gear while Normal, HC and Mythic move on.
You keep saying you don't want to do the content beyond LFR: Why need the gear?
"To gear up my alts" I'm sure they'll fix this by providing other endgame besides raiding.

[Lillemus]

Yes, it is quite hard to change the majority's view on challenging content. The majority have a desire for easy and fast in this quick moving world. I, personally, think people need to slow down and enjoy things more. If people move too quickly, they will run out of things to do. Being bored is no way to live.

But how do we cater to both camps? Blizzard decided that implementing "difficulty" settings was the best way, this gives the hardcore 6 day a week X hours a day type of player a challenge all the way through, however, not experience-wise. But on the other hand, any game that "resets" once a week will have trouble presenting new experiences at a pace desired.
Also I feel that a lot of people are blaming the mainstream MMO for being mainstream, a bit surprising.

[jimlow]

Not this damn video again. WHY WONT IT DIE!

[Theendgamelv3]

People will always choose the easy way. And I mean ALWAYS with caps and bold, if the chance/option is given to the player base.

Ex:
1- Looking for Group tool: Everyone uses it to level up. No one is doing quest to level up. Resulting in a empty world
2- 25 man drops = 10 man drops. Results: The number of 25 man guilds dropped DRAMITICLY and are now near to extinct.

Its just human nature man. If an easy route is presented to us WE will always follow it 99% of the people.
Blizzard gave us the option. Is just normal to expect this behavior from people.

"You cant blame the 7 year old kid for crashing and breaking his leg on a bike...You blame the adult that gave him the bike to ride" xD

http://www.wowprogress.com/ These guilds say otherwise. Congrats again, you insulted the top guilds by saying they will ALWAYS choose the easy way when they again have choose the hard content with their hard work. Unless you are implying that heroic raiding is the easy way, then you are completely and utterly wrong. Oh and any person or guild actively doing anything above LFR, they too are making you look wrong.

[Chrysia]

I hope they go through with this.
Nothing is more annoying than to see people being showered in loot for doing nothing.
"But LFR gear is 25 ilvls below Normal mode gear", please, you can still perform the semi-amount, if not the same amount of DPS in LFR gear as Normal gear.
Every time Blizzard releases a new raid, the LFR gear should remain on par with 6.0 HC dungeon gear while Normal, HC and Mythic move on.
You keep saying you don't want to do the content beyond LFR: Why need the gear?
"To gear up my alts" I'm sure they'll fix this by providing other endgame besides raiding.

You are vastly underestimating how much difference that 25 ilvls makes. Just look at the difference between a full LFR geared raider (maxes at about 250k on a pretty regular fight) and a heroic geared raider (What're they hitting? 600-800k?)

The normal geared raider will be in the middle of that.

[Dormie]

This and your earlier post suggest one of 2 things

a) You've never seen an encounter in a raid outside of LFR since LFR was introduced.

b) You're trolling the hell out of us. Or trying to.

EDIT: This one

See how you resort to ignorant(and false) assumptions?

Sure there's a couple more mechanics. But do you think a couple more mechanics and a 'challenge' is enough to keep people spending hours on 'progression'?

- - - Updated - - -

It's different mechanics, different strategies, different intensity... An entirely different experience.

LFR is an exercise in mindless, boring, going-through-the-motions, tediousness.
It is NOT even the same GAME as the heroic experience.

And making an entirely different experience for hardcore UTTERLY defeats the entire purpose of LFR. It's an ignorant stance in light of Blizzards clear and well-known position on the matter. You won't get it. Whining won't help you. This isn't the game for you. This is a game for casuals, with a little bonus for the tiny population of hardcore players. Blizzard will not give the hardcore players something that the casuals - the vast majority of players - are locked out of, simply because of who they are.

Again: If you refuse to play heroic because you already saw it on LFR, then you ARE a casual player. You HAVE played what you wanted to play. You DON'T really care about the extra challenges, no matter what you say. Actions speak louder than words.

You really can't be helped. This isn't the game for YOU. YOU don't care about the actual game, you just care about proving you have a l33t skills. I've been there done that, I don't need to prove myself, I want to see actual content. I want to see the WORLD of warcraft.



You can argue against me but I know I'm not wrong. Different difficulty is not different content.

[AeneasBK]

See how you resort to ignorant(and false) assumptions?

Sure there's a couple more mechanics. But do you think a couple more mechanics and a 'challenge' is enough to keep people spending hours on 'progression'?

Then post articulately and don't spout nonsense and people won't accuse you of being ignorant and/or trolling its nothing to do with personal attacks. Grow up? And in response to your question: Evidently it is. Look at the number of people raiding :O

You really can't be helped. This isn't the game for YOU. YOU don't care about the actual game, you just care about proving you have a l33t skills. I've been there done that, I don't need to prove myself, I want to see actual content. I want to see the WORLD of warcraft.

You can argue against me but I know I'm not wrong. Different difficulty is not different content.

The irony of this last bit is that actually no; this game isn't for YOU anymore. Its kinda cute

[Dormie]

Then post articulately and don't spout nonsense and people won't accuse you of being ignorant and/or trolling its nothing to do with personal attacks. Grow up? And in response to your question: Evidently it is. Look at the number of people raiding :O



The irony of this last bit is that actually no; this game isn't for YOU anymore. Its kinda cute

You're right, shitty games aren't for me. It's not nonsense. A newer difficulty of the same place players have already seen is not motivation for people to keep playing.

[Theendgamelv3]

So you are saying Blizzard is just wasting their time with the whole multiplayer aspect of WoW because nobody really cares what other people can do. I'd like to believe that, but it simply isn't true. People care about what other people can do and get jealous when they can't do it. It's human nature. And, here's the kicker: people want everything without trying, but, at the same time, they want Blizzard to prevent others that do try from getting further than them. It wasn't always like this, but, when the casual outbreak happened, it became that way. This "do little, get everything" attitude has got to go. It's like a disease that is spreading rapidly, and, if we don't stop it, games will stop being challenging and fun.

I am replying to this to shoot in the face about how you believe people care about what others do. I believe I am a person and I don't care if Paragon gets world first. You affected me enough by your post that you want to group me with a bunch of people I am not. See I don't care about what people do on WoW, I care a little bit when people think they can talk for me. You don't talk for me. Again, you billybob, joe blow can be heroic raiders, crappy players and I wouldn't care. I care about my part of wow and who I hang out with in wow.

[Deleted]

Can anyone help me? After I saw this video it got me worried....because I was thinking of coming back in Draenor...but if things will be like this I really don't know anymore.

VIDEO: w.youtube.com/watch?v=GFWh9aY4pas

min 3:35 (may the trolling begin)

Are things this bad? Can ANY player no matter how bad they are be able to do 100% of the content (Heroic modes not included).

I don't play the game for a long time because how things were in Pandaria. Easy accessibility and easy content for everyone removed my will for progression and willpower to continue playing. That and a community that was getting more antisocial by the second with Instanced content being the top priority at the moment. No more Socializing in the open World ( the Isle of Thunder made hoping for more content with pvp encounters and social gameplay in the world....)

Can someone plz get my hopes up for Draenor? :C

Yes, game will be like this more and more and wow is no more for you/kind of you....so dont bother wow and tell the same to anyone who have same worries:
"Wow is not for you anymore, dont need you".