Is WoW always going to be like this?

[Deleted]

I dont get it. 36 pages of people arguing that LFR = WoW?

They've been doing that since Nov 2011 Cata.. as soon as the topic dies long enough to drop off the front page someone makes a new thread and we all recycle all the comments again.

Bloody tiresome to be honest.

[ThunderTaco]

Lol im sorry if im offending anyone by this but...this video felt like a knife in my chest xD
Being able to see 100% of the content like this...and be considerably rewarded for it...I was like W t F.

What are going to be my goals if I decide to play again? What content should I aim for? Heroics? No way, I refuse to fight so hard for something I already saw and little to no reward (better stats same looks of gear yay..).

Last tier had a boss only in Heroic mode, so you couldn't see all the content in LFR or Normal, this thier and for the first MoP thier, the Last boss has a last phase in a special world designed only for Heroic, so you have access to more content on Heroic Mode.

If you just want to show off to other people with better looking gear, play something else.

[Thunderball]

Bingo. WoTLK was a big offender. Tier pieces for heroic 5 man badges pissed me off. Noobs didn't even need to step into Naxx to get tier gear. But it was after Ulduar and when team 2 stepped in when it all went to shit. Now we are drenched with garbage after garbage. and no motivation after no motivation to do anything.

That's right, WotLK made it very hard for developers to stop catering to the playerbase that got a lot of things for free. But for the overall health of the game they shouldnt.

- - - Updated - - -

People grow bored of WoW.

Yes, some people grow bored. But the vast amount of excellent players that quit in the beginning/middle of cata didnt grow bored, they quit because of the state of the game.

Now I got a job. And if I want to make a new alt, even WITH my regular job, I can reach current max level, in just a week. Week and a half if I get too much stress at work. Can you imagine how long it'd take to reach max level, level 90, using old WoW's metrics? And if you want to invite a friend: "Hey, want to come play World of Warcraft with me? Yeah. Start a new character and then, in a few months, we'll be able to party together for heroics and stuff!" Of course, assuming the first class your friend picks ends up being the one he actually likes the way it plays at max level.

And it's a bad thing. Leveling is supposed to be content aswell, and it's been for quite some time. It's supposed to be fun, helping you learn your class, meeting new people: most people who played in vanilla got into their first guild while leveling, and not because some random guy saw someone without a guild and invited you, but actually because you liked playing with the guy and wanted to play with guys like him. Noone cared that was a leveling, PvP or a raiding guild, people just naturally progressed with their character using the free time they had. Today leveling is just a grind you have to endure to reach endgame. Why discussing the length of a grind, it shouldnt be a grind in the first place.

[Drekmar]

I tried to do the same thing as the guys in the video. Didnt work, maybe because I was a healer.

[Theendgamelv3]

I tried to do the same thing as the guys in the video. Didnt work, maybe because I was a healer.

You're doing it wrong, you need to be a tank.

[Deleted]

Yes, some people grow bored. But the vast amount of excellent players that quit in the beginning/middle of cata didnt grow bored, they quit because of the state of the game.



And it's a bad thing. Leveling is supposed to be content aswell, and it's been for quite some time. It's supposed to be fun, helping you learn your class, meeting new people: most people who played in vanilla got into their first guild while leveling, and not because some random guy saw someone without a guild and invited you, but actually because you liked playing with the guy and wanted to play with guys like him. Noone cared that was a leveling, PvP or a raiding guild, people just naturally progressed with their character using the free time they had. Today leveling is just a grind you have to endure to reach endgame. Why discussing the length of a grind, it shouldnt be a grind in the first place.

And you know everyone's reasons for quitting how?
Also, from an objective point of view, pre-cata leveling was an even bigger grind that it is now. I clearly remember getting bored out of questing during tbc on my first character. The reason why it is now considered a bigger grind instead of a journey is because a lot of players have already done it a dozen times by now.

[miffy23]

Maybe instead of basing whether or not you play a game on how other people play the game, you should base it on whether or not you actually enjoy the game...

If people play LFR and get LFR quality gear to see LFR content, how does that affect anyone but those who want to play LFR?

If you don't want to play LFR, play Flex or Normal or Heroic.

The issue, as I've stated many times and Preach explains in his video, is that LFR is poison for new players in that it pretty much ruins their motivation and incentive to actually become better and get into higher raiding. There are barely any viable and active mid- to high tier raiders in the 5.0 generation.

[Raven]

Did you saw the video from min 3:35.......he did absolutely NOTHING and was always the DPS with the most damage taken...in the end he was full epic and seen 100% of the content in the game.

This game was once a symbol of respect and considered the ultimate challenge/ social experience and the best design in the gaming industry...and now this is the wow we have?

And ? you can see all content on youtube to, did he see the phase that are only on heroic garrosh ? if not then he haven´t seen 100%

[Theodon]

And ? you can see all content on youtube to, did he see the phase that are only on heroic garrosh ? if not then he haven´t seen 100%

People like the OP cannot be reasoned with. Fullly epic geared to them means wearing things that are epic quality, but to others it's wearing things with the highest ilevel available. The OP also uses hyperbole by saying he's seen 99% of the content, but, assuming leveling is 25% of the PvE content, they've actually only seen 50% of it. to them, 'seeing the content' is literally that, they see the game; they seemingly don't understand that playing a heroic encounter is different to playing a LFR encounter. "It looks the same so it is the same!"

They will complain about the usual stuff then return when the next patch is released, get bored, complain about the same things again, then quit until patch x.2

[Dormie]

They've been doing that since Nov 2011 Cata.. as soon as the topic dies long enough to drop off the front page someone makes a new thread and we all recycle all the comments again.

Bloody tiresome to be honest.

And yet people still say there isn't a problem..

[Raven]

And yet people still say there isn't a problem..

And the only way to fix it is to stop allowing their biggest paying part of players to be able to see everything and how is that right, they pay the same amount as the hardcore raiders so good luck in telling them, we know you pay as much as everyone else but sorry you will only be allowed to see half of the content have fun.

[miffy23]

The issue is not LFR at it's core or that casual and new players get to see the raids. It's the lack of differentiation in reward and game experience between LFR and even heroic, from the viewpoint of a new player. Veteran players know what they want to go for, and have often experienced both sides of the coin. New players haven't, and to them LFR seems like "it", since they are not pushed to go further, and frankly they don't really have any reason to.

The raiding population is indeed dying a slow death, this is the core issue related to LFR, not how popular the game is, or how many played in TBC or Wrath, or regurgitating the meta discussion "casual/hardcore" or "what you get for your subscription". It's what kind of an effect LFR has had and is having on Normal + raiders aspiring in 5.0 and beyond.

As a point of interest - can anyone recall meeting or raiding with someone on normal difficulty or higher that actually began playing in MoP?

[Deleted]

Lol im sorry if im offending anyone by this but...this video felt like a knife in my chest xD
Being able to see 100% of the content like this...and be considerably rewarded for it...I was like W t F.

What are going to be my goals if I decide to play again? What content should I aim for? Heroics? No way, I refuse to fight so hard for something I already saw and little to no reward (better stats same looks of gear yay..).

Well, you're not suited for RPG. goodbye, have fun!

[Dormie]

And the only way to fix it is to stop allowing their biggest paying part of players to be able to see everything and how is that right, they pay the same amount as the hardcore raiders so good luck in telling them, we know you pay as much as everyone else but sorry you will only be allowed to see half of the content have fun.

They can see everything they just have to put in more effort to see end game content than logging in and pressing queue.

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Well, you're not suited for RPG. goodbye, have fun!

Wow that's so delusional it hurts.

[Kelimbror]

People like the OP cannot be reasoned with. Fullly epic geared to them means wearing things that are epic quality, but to others it's wearing things with the highest ilevel available. The OP also uses hyperbole by saying he's seen 99% of the content, but, assuming leveling is 25% of the PvE content, they've actually only seen 50% of it. to them, 'seeing the content' is literally that, they see the game; they seemingly don't understand that playing a heroic encounter is different to playing a LFR encounter. "It looks the same so it is the same!"

The best part is that the OP keeps flip flopping between saying having the items look the same is the problem and then when called out for not knowing everyone transmogs they switch it to something more absurd and say the rewards are the same. Even though they've already been educated on how iLvl works, somehow LFR gear = Heroic Warforged. They're basically trolling with their jedi rodent sidekick at this point.

[Dormie]

The best part is that the OP keeps flip flopping between saying having the items look the same is the problem and then when called out for not knowing everyone transmogs they switch it to something more absurd and say the rewards are the same. Even though they've already been educated on how iLvl works, somehow LFR gear = Heroic Warforged. They're basically trolling with their jedi rodent sidekick at this point.

And you are willfully ignorning the point. LFR gear is to LFR what heroic gear is to heroic, so any gear improvements are pretty redundant. It's like making a larger paycheck but having larger bills to pay. The point is that a lot of people are satisfied with LFR gear, it's basically like end game to them since they've seen the raids and gotten mock raid gear.

[Deleted]

And yet people still say there isn't a problem..

"people" doesn't come in to play in this - because it's completely individually subjective matter.
Existence of optional feature like the LFR doesn't affect anyones game at all. If you don't like it, don't run it. If you like it, run it.

/thread.

[Kelimbror]

And you are willfully ignorning the point. LFR gear is to LFR what heroic gear is to heroic, so any gear improvements are pretty redundant. It's like making a larger paycheck but having larger bills to pay. The point is that a lot of people are satisfied with LFR gear, it's basically like end game to them since they've seen the raids and gotten mock raid gear.

You're willfully ignoring this point: SO WHAT?
Now that the goal posts have been moved for like the thousandth time in this thread, because it's shifted to be an ideological problem with LFR satisfying raiding for people who can't do more difficult, more time consuming, and more in depth raiding...let me try and clarify for you. You essentially have a problem with people doing the content that suits them best and being satisfied with that. Do you see how large your ego is here? LFR is a travesty to you because it doesn't force people to keep raiding higher difficulties. That's not what it is intended to do nor does it need to do that.

It has the capability to serve as a conduit for higher raiding sure, but it is successful on its own. This is also taking raiding into a vacuum where the rest of the content in the game doesn't exist. Sorry, doesn't work that way. Raiding still provides higher gear which allows you to make more money from farming, do content you couldn't before (soloing warbringers, rares, elites, etc), helps you fare better in open world PvP like the Timeless Isle, helps you in Brawler's guild, etc. It makes just about every single thing you do in the game better. So there is still motivation to go higher. If people choose not to, that's their own choice...not yours.

[Dormie]

If you^ can't understand something simple as to how LFR could remove peoples incentive to keep playing than no amount of explaining will show you.

"people" doesn't come in to play in this - because it's completely individually subjective matter.
Existence of optional feature like the LFR doesn't affect anyones game at all. If you don't like it, don't run it. If you like it, run it.

/thread.

It's not completely subjective if it is constantly coming up on both these and the regular WoW forums. It obviously does affect peoples game, don't be naive.

[Imnick]

Is there anything wrong with people playing something, going "yeah I am satisfied" and then stopping until more comes out?
They obviously don't enjoy the challenge or they would be seeking it out themselves, forcing them to run into a grindstone for no reason doesn't really serve anyone's purposes.

I don't think this even describes the majority of players in LFR, but for those it does apply to... why is it a problem that they don't want to take their raiding any further?
That's their business not yours.